Speculation: Roster Building thread: Part XIX (Thanks, Sam)

[McRanger92]

Good luck to the next Rangers head coach trying to get Artemi to play the proper way. Laviolette never punishes these guys for refusing the play north and south. He keeps rolling out the same players late in the game. First unit PP. Kreider was a scratch but he is the only one to sit. Some of that could be health related.

4th times the charm.

 

[McRanger92]

The issue with Trocheck is JT Miller. They are very close. Their wives are very close. Trocheck is here to stay with JT on the team. Trocheck is easier to move than Zibanejad. Limited NTC this summer.

Idk about that. If a trade makes sense I think the would trade him. They had no problem trading Skjei 20 minutes after signing his BFF trouba. Different regime though.

 

[MrAlmost]

Trocheck has been excellent as a Ranger. 3 straight 20 goal 50 point season playing all situations. Mika largely has been one too. People let their personal biases get in the way of the fact that both guys are on the back nine of their career. If there is a trade out there that works for the Rangers and makes us young and more cap flexibile (ideally both), id trade both guys and not think twice. Same with Panarin and Kreider.

Fair. I think Trocheck is worth keeping. He is on a great contract and if he produces even like he is now that's a positive cause again, his contract is great. I'd like to see a team with more speed to go along with his all together. Panarin, Kreider and Z would not be on my team next year. Don't give a shit about "replacing production".

Funny thing about that is that teams generally score about the same amount of goals every year. Some go over and some go under, but most teams are very much in the middle of the bell. The goals always come and someone will score them. Somewhere around 240ish to 280ish. The good teams keep the GA down. Need better D and more aggressive forwards along with a more aggressive forecheck and offensive zone dump scheme.

It's called DUMP AND CHASE not rim it and pray.

 

[McRanger92]

Fair. I think Trocheck is worth keeping. He is on a great contract and if he produces even like he is now that's a positive cause again, his contract is great. I'd like to see a team with more speed to go along with his all together. Panarin, Kreider and Z would not be on my team next year. Don't give a shit about "replacing production".

Funny thing about that is that teams generally score about the same amount of goals every year. Some go over and some go under, but most teams are very much in the middle of the bell. The goals always come and someone will score them. Somewhere around 240ish to 280ish. The good teams keep the GA down. Need better D and more aggressive forwards along with a more aggressive forecheck and offensive zone dump scheme.

It's called DUMP AND CHASE not rim it and pray.

For a couple seasons Trocheck really rubbed off positively on panarin with his aggressive play, but this year it's flipped. The amount of turnovers Trocheck makes on dumb passes and stickhandling is so much higher than it was in past years. The same risky blueline shit from bread. In all likelihood Trocheck will be here next year and possibly even be the captain (just give it to JT imo). I think he can be a real positive influence between a couple young wingers, whether that be Laff, Cuylle, perreault, Othmann, etc. I like the idea of having veteran centers on a team of young wingers.

 

[MrAlmost]

For a couple seasons Trocheck really rubbed off positively on panarin with his aggressive play, but this year it's flipped. The amount of turnovers Trocheck makes on dumb passes and stickhandling is so much higher than it was in past years. The same risky blueline shit from bread. In all likelihood Trocheck will be here next year and possibly even be the captain (just give it to JT imo). I think he can be a real positive influence between a couple young wingers, whether that be Laff, Cuylle, perreault, Othmann, etc. I like the idea of having veteran centers on a team of young wingers.

On off days and before games when I'm a bit more rational I can see that it's just most guys gripping too hard and trying to do too much. The pressure has cracked them all and they need an off-season.

 

[NYR Viper]

The issue with Trocheck is JT Miller. They are very close. Their wives are very close. Trocheck is here to stay with JT on the team. Trocheck is easier to move than Zibanejad. Limited NTC this summer.

Trochek is a guy you want to keep around. He's actually underpaid

 

[UnparalledPark]

Answering that question takes this conversation beyond Kreider and the Rangers, and into hockey culture at large. All of these players think that playing hurt is the right thing to do, even if objectively they are hurting themselves and hurting the team by doing so. That's a hockey culture problem. And I agree that it's asinine.

I also figure Lav doesn’t want to be known as the guy that prevented Kreider from reaching some career milestones before Drury attempts to jettison Kreider off the team this summer, and let’s face it, there aren’t a lot of obvious alternatives knocking down the door.

 

[Cmox]

Maybe Kreider just needs a haircut? He definitely has a "I'm over this season" flow going'

 

[bernmeister]

Ok.

Trocheck this season at 5v5:
CF%= 51.3
CF%rel= +3.9
FF%= 50.3
FF%rel= +3
C/60= +3.2
OiGF= 2.9
OiGA= 2.8
Points= 32
Facepff%= 59.5
+/- (not 5v5 specific)= +2

Zibanejad this season at 5v5:
CF%= 47.7
CF%rel= -1.3
FF%= 48.1
FF%rel= -0.7
C/60= -5.6
OiGF= 2.2
OiGA= 3
Points= 22
Faceoff%= 52.8
+/- (not 5v5 specific)= -20

No one gives a f*** what points he scored 2 years ago. He isn't a 70 to 80 point player RIGHT NOW. There is no sure thing he ever will be again and especially not in New York where the well is clearly poisoned. I wouldn't be surprised if Z, Kreider and Panarin aren't in the opening night lineup for 25-26.

So the question that really needs to be asked, why do you constantly try to deflect criticism from Z to Trocheck? I mean, not that trocheck has been as good as last year, but he is objectively outperforming Z for less money at the most critical aspect of the game, 5v5.

And to be clear, the entire premise is faulty. Both need to be held accountable for the poor play and poor energy this season. But you are basically saying, my guy shot someone, but that guy stabbed someone multiple times. Isn't that worse? They are both bad.

You are saying much better, but it's just not the case. I think Z is a good player, but I think it's over in NY for him and a few others.

You arent holding Trocheck responsible. You are flat out saying why do we hate Z when Trocheck is worse? Trocheck is OBJECTIVELY not worse. He is not a "3C scrub". He has been a great player in this league for years. Just like Z and it seems like Trocheck might still be able to get it done at 5v5 better then Z going forward. He plays with more pace, more physicality, goes to the net more and is just as good in his own end. He is also 1 of the 4 main PK players on what is the only good aspect of our team, the PK.

Trocheck has had a down year along with a down team. Z has been monumentaly bad and if it wasnt for a 10-15 game burst, he would have 35 points right now.

Eye test is fair basis to be Z critical, but thanks for the effort to compile the data which accurately shows how totally correct Z critics are.

We may need to retain to make a deal work. Maybe there's even a deal where we a get a 3rd team to retain as well. I'm open to it if it means we can get a good return.

I assume Panarin won't want to go to any of the Canadian teams. I also assume he will want to go to a team with legitimate cup aspirations. Vegas could be a landing spot. They have 10 mil in cap space and no players of significance to re-sign other than Hague, and he won't get much of a bump.

Vegas already has 7 dmen under contract for next season and Hague is 6th on the team in TOI for dmen. Maybe we send them Soucy at half price along with Panarin and they send us Hague. We could also take back Roy to be our 3rd line center.

Panarin: 5,821,429
Soucy: 1,625,000

Roy: 3,000,000
Hague: RFA
Some combination of Holtz/Connelly/Picks

Another option might be Minnesota. They have 21 mil in cap space and Panarin might like the idea of playing with Kaprizov. Rossi could be part of the return, and they have some interesting prospects. Maybe we can get Buium.

All of this is probably moot, though. I don't really think Drury will trade him.

good post overall
I think Drury knows he needs to break up an aging core, and will deal him.

The ? is, yr point that I bolded is reasonable, but it could also be that if ENUF was on the table, bread would consider his final big $$$$$$ contract over cup run.
Chicago desp needs Panarin + Berard to play w/speed w/Bedard, keep him happy.

Other than high end draft picks, not sure what CHI has that I would want
But if $$$$, not cup shot, = bottom line, that = possible destination

 

[TGWL]

Artemi Panarin($11,642,857) to the TB for Anthony Cirelli($6.25M) and Oliver Bjorkstrand($5.4M). $11.65M combined. The money is a match. Panarin would waive to play in Florida and with Nikita Kucherov. Cirelli will be 28 this July. He has six more seasons remaining. Would TB move Cirelli? Bjorkstrand can be moved in another deal. TB traded every draft pick for Tanner Jeannot, Yanni Gourde and Bjorkstrand.

Unless they're trying to get out of that contract, this doesn't make any sense for Tampa. They have star power. They have powerplay heroes. They have 1st line players. I'd argue Cirelli and Bjorkstrand are far more important for their team.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

You are not. He was not well liked under the Torts regime.

IIRC, it's because he ran the PP which was tepid at best.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Okay maybe I was wrong and he hasn't changed that much.

Baffled that people want this back.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Nope. I'm the guy who actually knows what Chris is going through physically and desperately hoping he gets shut down for the season, as he should have been 3 months ago. But I sure as shit haven't turned on a guy who has worked his ass off for this team over the past 10 season, in particular the last 5 or so, just because his body is barely capable of letting him play.

Ok I'll bite.

What is he physically going through?

 

[McRanger92]

Okay maybe I was wrong and he hasn't changed that much.

Baffled that people want this back.

Id like to hear the details on this.

 

[McRanger92]

Ok I'll bite.

What is he physically going through?

A broken heart

 

[RangerBoy]

Unless they're trying to get out of that contract, this doesn't make any sense for Tampa. They have star power. They have powerplay heroes. They have 1st line players. I'd argue Cirelli and Bjorkstrand are far more important for their team.

If TB loses in the first round of the playoffs, maybe they look at changing it up. They are not afraid of blowing out a franchise type of player and bringing in another player. I know thing and it's that the Rangers are going nowhere with this group and significant changes are needed.

 

[McRanger92]

If TB loses in the first round of the playoffs, maybe they look at changing it up. They are not afraid of blowing out a franchise type of player and bringing in another player. I know thing and it's that the Rangers are going nowhere with this group and significant changes are needed.

Panarin 50% retained for McDonagh

 

[GAGLine]

If TB loses in the first round of the playoffs, maybe they look at changing it up. They are not afraid of blowing out a franchise type of player and bringing in another player. I know thing and it's that the Rangers are going nowhere with this group and significant changes are needed.

They don't have any center depth behind Cirelli, though.

If they have interest in Panarin, it will probably be at half price for futures. Maybe they would include Bjorkstrand in the deal if they aren't enamored with what they see from him the rest of the way.

They don't have any first round picks the next 3 years, but they have LA's 2nd this year and their own 2nd round picks in 26 and 27. They also have some interesting prospects in Geekie and Howard. Kurth, as well, who played with Lamb in Minnesota.

Assuming Drury has the stomach for trading Panarin, I think he'd want more in the way of current NHL players. If that's the case, I don't see Tampa being a good fit.

 

[effen]

Ok I'll bite.

What is he physically going through?

Some back thing, he already had a tell all with Uncle Larry earlier this year. Not sure why they're running him out there still, he's half a hockey player at best.

 

[McRanger92]

cant help but laugh at the Post article about Trouba and the Rangers. Laf saying he was one of the guys who took him under his wing immediately. I guess that's why Alexis is getting his extracurricular's in order with this Chopt endorsement while the team is sputtering their way out of the playoffs. I cant be the only one who sees this is a problem.

 

[bhamill]

I think Lafs production is ok. Not great but ok. My disappointment has come from his game. Where is the guy that was using his body last season? The guy that was really putting the effort in. The guy you looked forward to watching his shifts. He was hard to handle. This season he seemed to regress back to what he was in previous seasons.

I agree, those shifts were the norm last season, and early THIS season. I don’t know what happened, I still see it happen, but they are too rare now.

 

[bhamill]

cant help but laugh at the Post article about Trouba and the Rangers. Laf saying he was one of the guys who took him under his wing immediately. I guess that's why Alexis is getting his extracurricular's in order with this Chopt endorsement while the team is sputtering their way out of the playoffs. I cant be the only one who sees this is a problem.

Honestly, this seems like something he had to spend all of 30 mins on. If that. His agent worked it out and Laf had to approve it. It’s not like he’s creating dishes, doing a bunch of commercials or making appearances for them, right? They basically gave him money to put his name on a menu item. No different than any other kind of endorsement or sponsorship IMO.

 

[McRanger92]

Honestly, this seems like something he had to spend all of 30 mins on. If that. His agent worked it out and Laf had to approve it. It’s not like he’s creating dishes, doing a bunch of commercials or making appearances for them, right? They basically gave him money to put his name on a menu item. No different than any other kind of endorsement or sponsorship IMO.

The optics are bad. It couldn't wait until May?

 

[bhamill]

Rempe is a terrible fighter.

He’s fought basically EVERY top heavyweight in the league at 23 and only has had one REAL loss: Olivier, the best in the league. Terrible fighter? Nope. But bad balance and a ways to go. But even so he’s on the cusp of that top tier. No one in the second tier wants any part of him.

 

[bhamill]

The optics are bad. It couldn't wait until May?

No idea. Maybe this, and the timing, was worked out before the season even started. No clue. But yeah, the fact that he’s regressed and there’s even the appearance that he’s distracted is bad optics.