Speculation: Roster Building thread: Part XIX (Thanks, Sam)

[Machinehead]

Plus let’s be real, as much as we loved those teams, they didn’t finish the job either. Close but not close enough as usual

And the main reason they didn't win...surprise, I'm not gonna say it was stupid Dan Girardi (but he didn't help).

Because let's be honest, LA caved all of our pairs in that series.

They lost because they didn't have a take-over talent at forward. Neither did two of the teams they beat and they got away with it once against Pittsburgh.

There's no way they're getting one now within 2-3 years barring something very lucky and very unforseen.

They would need something like Jalen Brunson terraforming into an all-world player out of actual nowhere like the Knicks got.

And the Knicks are still unserious!

 

[TheTakedown]

He's not signing anywhere for 10m but I get your point. I still don't see how that one guy makes them any better than what they are now with this roster.

well I did not say that it would "fix" this team... LOL

 

[Overcast]

They could literally run it back with this exact roster and a different HC and be a top 3 team in the division next year.

Not saying thats what they should do or will do (No way after the way this year played out) and I'm not even saying that there aren't major issues with this roster (f*** yes there are, some of the same ones for years) and @Machinehead nailed it when he said that this team has blown at fundamentals, even in years where they're good.

But lol at the doom casting. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I didn't hear the same shit after the 2023 season.

My bigger concern is year 2, not year 1. Almost every team gets a nice little bump in team effort/results when a new HC is brought in. Happened with Gallant, happened with AV, happened with Lavi. But will this team continue to respond positively to the same HC for 2 consecutive years? Because so far, they've shown they will go out of their way to ignore whoever the coach is regardless of how many "brick walls they'd run through for that guy" in year 1.

 

[TheTakedown]

They could literally run it back with this exact roster and a different HC and be a top 3 team in the division next year.

Not saying thats what they should do or will do (No way after the way this year played out) and I'm not even saying that there aren't major issues with this roster (f*** yes there are, some of the same ones for years) and @Machinehead nailed it when he said that this team has blown at fundamentals, even in years where they're good.

But lol at the doom casting. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I didn't hear the same shit after the 2023 season.

That is exactly what this team has done twice in 4 years... To the rangers credit, it worked... There was no reason to not be in win-now mode with multiple players in their prime. They hired win-now coaches, twice, which got them to multiple deep playoff runs, all without ever going through a "proper rebuild" like what most people clamor for, not realizing that most of the time you end up like the Devils or Sabres...

The result was winning 10 of the required 16 playoff games each twice, and getting stomped in the first round by an up-and-coming division rival once. These aren't bad results, but the reality is that this core is done, and this roster as is won't work in today's NHL, which is why this year they will likely miss the playoffs. It's part of the process with sports. I think a lot of people are frustrated with this outcome because having a 1st and 2nd overall picks on your team should translate to success 4 and 5 years post-draft, but it's not because that is unfortuantely how rotten the rest of the core is, on a year that has been filled with drama and bad luck.

The window is closed but not locked. Something will be done, Drury has already started doing so with the shuffle of players, but the real work begins in the offseason, and people should prepare for a down year next year.

My bigger concern is year 2, not year 1. Almost every team gets a nice little bump in team effort/results when a new HC is brought in. Happened with Gallant, happened with AV, happened with Lavi. But will this team continue to respond positively to the same HC for 2 consecutive years? Because so far, they've shown they will go out of their way to ignore whoever the coach is regardless of how many "brick walls they'd run through for that guy" in year 1.

The answer to that is to hire a long term coach. The last three coaches the rangers have hired were short term solutions, not long term solutions. This goes back to the last sentencees of my 2nd paragraph above -- this core as a whole is cooked and won't ever respond to a new coach in the manner that you're speaking of.

Another huge miss was not promoting Knoblauch. Had a gifted NHL coach right in our system and we passed on him for a retread.

 

[eco's bones]

Lafreniere, Kreider & Zibanejad pretty objectively have had worse seasons. Trocheck is not without blame but he was one of the few that (futilely) tried to change the tide during the disastrous Nov-Dec, based on his contract his baseline expectations should align closer to a good 3C rather than 1C he's been doing as Panarin partner (and inability of Zibanejad to meet expectations for this role).

@eco's bones made this observation already but it did worth mentioning production from key leaders in this latest 1-4 team's spiral.

We were hovering around getting the last playoff spot and these were critical games if we were going to make it happen.

One other thing is the production spread of any given player. It's great when a guy has a 3/4 point night but if he doesn't produce the next 3/4 games and the team doesn't pick up many points then his production numbers are kind of not doing us much good. Point streaks are important and we haven't had nearly enough of that this year. We've had too much of guys going scoreless for 5 or 5+ games though like Zibanejad has just done.

All that said I've thought for some time that this team was just not going to make it. I do think Drury has made some very necessary moves though with Trouba, Lindgren, Smith, Chytil (mainly because of his injury history) and Vesey. He might not have moved everybody he needed to but he's moved the ones he really had to.

 

[majordomo]

That depends on what coach is going to hold them accountable while also recognizing when things aren't working. Lavi should have canned Housley. Drury should have canned Phil Housley. Too many men penalties can't all happen because of the players. So what coach is going to take some accountability while also holding the players accountable?

I know the defense has been less than horrid this season, but is Housley really the one to blame? Laviolette has clearly stated that the defensive scheme is his preference. There's a paragraph in this article that confirms this:

"Rangers head coach Peter Laviolette prefers a strict man-to-man system that requires following the puck carrier to all parts of the ice, but when the execution is even a smidge off, it can leave prime real estate wide open."

Last I heard, the coaches follow what the head coach dictates. Obviously, this is the hill Lavvy has decided to die on. The only real fault I can find with Housley is that he didn't quit before his reputation (if any) was damaged any further. It must be a nightmare trying to get players to play a system they're not suited for....kind of like our last 4 coaches trying to teach and/or get our core to play N-S rather than E-W.

Projected lineup: NY Rangers' man-to-man defense has major holes

The Blueshirts allow high-danger scoring chances at a rate that ranks near the bottom of the NHL, but their committed to sticking with their system.

www.lohud.com

 

[duhmetreE]

We need to get to 5% chance for Schaefer or Misa

end season goals

 

[egelband]

One of the enraging hallmarks of the team the past number of years has been defenders skating up to attackers and STOPPING in order to flail away weakly at the puck. Some of the new guys are willing to skate into and through attackers which great. But there’s a really bad defensive culture that has to go away before this team ever gets good again.

 

[majordomo]

All this talk about which players and/or coach will right the ship mean nothing unless the organization is fixed. Our scouting has been shit, there's been no pipeline from AHL for decades; worse, there's been no organizational plan as how to they want to play and, accordingly, bringing in players to fit that plan. Rearranging the deck chairs (players/coaches) ain't cutting it.

As for bringing in a long-term coach, you're not getting one as long as The Dolt owns the team because he will never be able to resist meddling and just let the coach and staff do their jobs. Sather was perfect for him because (a) he was The Dolt's ultimate "yes man" and (b) he got them to the playoffs, which is all The Dolt is concerned with where the Rangers are concerned.

 

[Bob Richards]

I think the idea is to clear cap space for a move in 12 months from today

This is not relevant to your post but glad to see you back m8. Feels like its been a minute.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

There’s basically nothing the Rangers can realistically do over the offseason to transform this team enough to make them a contending team. At this point the only way forward is a severe retool or rebuild. There’s not enough talent coming through the pipeline and the rest of what’s left on the roster isn’t that good, especially after Panarin leaves. There’s Fox, Igor, and a bunch of guys playing in roles they aren’t equipped to handle on a contending team.

They can, but they have to stop over trusting the vets and invest in the kids. Turn the team over to the youth. Like don't half it, put those young players that grew up on pp1 all their life on pp1. Othmann, Lafreniere, Perrault etc, Cuylle as a net front. Stop doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Take Kreider, Zib, and Trochek and put them on pp2. Panarin, Laf, Othmann, Miller and Fox on pp1, if nothing else the future gets valuable experience for the future.

 

[SA16]

I know the defense has been less than horrid this season, but is Housley really the one to blame? Laviolette has clearly stated that the defensive scheme is his preference. There's a paragraph in this article that confirms this:

"Rangers head coach Peter Laviolette prefers a strict man-to-man system that requires following the puck carrier to all parts of the ice, but when the execution is even a smidge off, it can leave prime real estate wide open."

Last I heard, the coaches follow what the head coach dictates. Obviously, this is the hill Lavvy has decided to die on. The only real fault I can find with Housley is that he didn't quit before his reputation (if any) was damaged any further. It must be a nightmare trying to get players to play a system they're not suited for....kind of like our last 4 coaches trying to teach and/or get our core to play N-S rather than E-W.

Projected lineup: NY Rangers' man-to-man defense has major holes

The Blueshirts allow high-danger scoring chances at a rate that ranks near the bottom of the NHL, but their committed to sticking with their system.

www.lohud.com

It's not Lavy or Housely's fault. It's the organizations fault for having Mark Ciaccio develop bad habits and skills in the players for years. He may be gone but they still dealt with his teachings.

 

[zlev]

maybe if we can really nail the Lafreniere trade that's coming this summer we'll have a chance next year

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

Not unless Fox hires Ovie's trainer . If said trainer can perform brain transplants or SpockVulcan type work....on KMiller and a few other guys like Laf -Kreider-Mika then we could shock the hockey World .

ovis built like a bag of milk and houses fettuccine Alfredo on the regular

 

[Kendo]

Those who campaigned for him to be named captain are the same crazy people who wants to give the C to JT Miller now.

Trocheck is a career average 50 point player and should center the 3rd line. Put him there and I wont complain as much.

It's somewhat reasonable to call those who want to give Vince the C crazy, but calling it insane to want to simply keep him on the roster is a couple bridges too far.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I mean, yeah, but they went into the following year with the same problems, despite winning games.

Quick turnarounds can happen but they need to actually fix the problems, and they probably need to get lucky on some things.

I'm still "wait and see" on whether or not they'll identify the problems at all.

When Drury targets guys like Chychrun and Roy and not…the guys he has targeted, I’ll see more reason for optimism

 

[Fitzy]

When Drury targets guys like Chychrun and Roy and not…the guys he has targeted, I’ll see more reason for optimism

Unless his plan is to build a Tortorella style team without much top end talent. But you need a Tortorella for that, and we still needed talent to take that group to the next level if Gaborik and Nash count

 

[effen]

It's not Lavy or Housely's fault. It's the organizations fault for having Mark Ciaccio develop bad habits and skills in the players for years. He may be gone but they still dealt with his teachings.

This is my favorite thing on this site.

 

[Leonardo87]

Not sure how everyone is truly feeling. I don’t want to root for them to lose, but I feel a lesson won’t be learned if they make the playoffs and if they miss, I think Drury will take more drastic action.

Have to look at the bigger picture. I think this core’s window has closed. Time to prepare to open for a new one.

 

[Machinehead]

Not sure how everyone is truly feeling. I don’t want to root for them to lose, but I feel a lesson won’t be learned if they make the playoffs and if they miss, I think Drury will take more drastic action.

Have to look at the bigger picture. I think this core’s window has closed. Time to prepare to open for a new one.

I just vibe based on whether or not the game is entertaining and...

Rooting for anything doesn't work anyway, we've found that out.

If it's a good game I'll cheer because why the f*** not? If it's not a good game, I'll goof on them.

If Drury doesn't already see it either way, he's not it.

 

[Leonardo87]

I just vibe based on whether or not the game is entertaining and...

Rooting for anything doesn't work anyway, we've found that out.

If it's a good game I'll cheer because why the f*** not? If it's not a good game, I'll goof on them.

If Drury doesn't already see it either way, he's not it.

yeah I can’t root for them to lose. I think it’s silly to want a better draft position….

Unless maybe you are tanking for 1stOA in a deep draft. Which means dead last guarantees you a Top 3 pick.

 

[NYR Viper]

If you had a choice of

Orlov at 3 years for $5m per season
Or
Miller at 6 years for $5.5m per season

Which would you choose?

I ask this because if the team isn’t high on Miller but could find a trade partner who values him and has the ability to trade a forward in return who could help play top-6 and sign a shorter term replacement, would that not be a good move?

 

[Machinehead]

yeah I can’t root for them to lose. I think it’s silly to want a better draft position….

Unless maybe you are tanking for 1stOA in a deep draft. Which means dead last guarantees you a Top 3 pick.

I think you can separate the big picture from the three hours you sit down and watch the game.

If you offered it to me, I'd rather miss the playoffs.

If I'm gonna sit down and watch one game, it's a waste of my time to not at least engage with it normally. I might be less enthusiastic and have a quicker fuse, hell I might skip it, but if I sit down to watch it, I'm rooting for the Rangers for three hours.

Why else would I bother?

 

[Machinehead]

If you had a choice of

Orlov at 3 years for $5m per season
Or
Miller at 6 years for $5.5m per season

Which would you choose?

I ask this because if the team isn’t high on Miller but could find a trade partner who values him and has the ability to trade a forward in return who could help play top-6 and sign a shorter term replacement, would that not be a good move?

The first thing that pops into my head is...both?

We have like 1.5 good defensemen.

 

[NYR Viper]

The first thing that pops into my head is...both?

We have like 1.5 good defensemen.

I don’t disagree, but let’s also assume Gavrikov reached UFA. Sign Gavrikov and Orlov, trade Miller for Rossi (or someone like him), trade Panarin and Kreider for futures and maybe 1 young player who can play now