Speculation: Roster Building thread: Part XIX (Thanks, Sam)

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Lol at people already professing the team dead in the water next year.

I've seen too many "shit" teams basically transform themselves with a simple coaching change alone.
I think we're in the right to believe "we'll believe it when we see it".

Chris Drury has not inspired confidence. The organizational strategy at targeting players has not inspired confidence. The homegrown youngsters are showing some promise but nothing eye opening or roster changing.

I'm not seeing much reason for optimism? Anywhere? Is getting rid of Panarin going to make Gabe a 50 point rookie? Is getting rid of Kreider going to make Othmann a 20 goal scorer?

The only reason for optimism is "it couldn't have gone worse than it has". And even that's generous, imo.

TO be clear, i'm totally fine with getting rid of Panarin and Kreider at a minimum. No issue. I think them being addition by subtraction in totality is literal f***ing lunacy.
 
Lol at people already professing the team dead in the water next year.

I've seen too many "shit" teams basically transform themselves with a simple coaching change alone.
They're in the playoffs hunt with 0 players having great seasons and 2 having good seasons with everyone else average to unplayable.

A new coach will 1000% give a bump, but not as much as 4 guys having bounce back years.

Still weird being the optimist but this is a top 12 team next year.
 
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They're in the playoffs hunt with 0 players having great seasons and 2 having good seasons with everyone else average to unplayable.

A new coach will 1000% give a bump, but not as much as 4 guys having bounce back years.

Still weird being the optimist but this is a top 12 team next year.
I assume one is Cuylle, who's the other? Carrick?
 
Someone answered this a little ways back but im lazy so if someone knows please share the answer

Do the Rangers have the opportunity to see if they've moved up in the lotto or not before making the decision on the pick?
 
Someone answered this a little ways back but im lazy so if someone knows please share the answer

Do the Rangers have the opportunity to see if they've moved up in the lotto or not before making the decision on the pick?
Yes. The decision is 48 hours after the lottery.
 
I

Borgen basically is Trouba. A bit better with the puck on his stick. Soucys a horse sized Lindgren. Ig it’s not surprising that the team obsessed with Lindgren and Trouba went out and reacquired them

No, he's not "basically trouba"... this is a loaded and false statement... There were always significant flaws with Trouba, which was perpetuated by Jeff Gorton's obsession with him "for many years". This has been reported multiple times.

Let's first remember that Trouba was never actually an "offensive defenseman", but Gorton in his infinite wisdom (e.g. his obsession and his beer goggles) specifically brought here for "his offense".
He proceeded to have ONE good year with this "offensive talent", his THIRD season here where he put up 39 in 81... his first two years he was absolutely abysmal in terms of offensive production in both standard and avanced stats.

Four years and two coaches down the line, it's clear as day that that Jacob didn't actually have this "offense" that the previous GM was so inclined to believe that he had (not to mention the very reason he was brought here), after which he was converted by the new coaching staff (Gallant and co) to be a "defensive defenseman" (again, not why he was brought here, and not what he ever actually was -- moreso just an average dman on a very good Jets team, insulated by Josh Morrissey).

He was never a top pairing guy, but in true Rangers fashion, we paid him AND played him like one -- another instance of expecting a guy to do something he's never done before because #rangers... It's the same story with Ryan Lindgren -- he was NEVER a top pair dman, and though there was a time that he was an acceptable compliment to fox, after the end of the 2023-24 season it was very clear that Lindgren was not a top pair guy and should not have been receiving top pair minutes, yet this team not only gave him a 1 year extension, but continued playing him over his head, and then when he regressed (e.g. Fox couldn't carry him anymore) his trade value was tanked.

AS OF TODAY Trouba is paid $8M, he is the 19th highest paid defenseman in the league... This contract was awared SIX YEARS AGO, which at the time was in the top-10 for highest paid defenseman (I do not have the exact number of signings for that year as cap wages doesn't go that far back)...

The key difference is WHY Borgen was brought here is not in the players, but in how each respective GM is handling it. Drury has shown to be very good at identifying players for specific roles -- much better than Gorton ever was... The actual difference of Borgen vs Trouba is that the former was brought here to be a 2nd pair, right handed defenseman to play behind Adam Fox, with a price tag of $5M (prior to public knowledge of the cap increase amount) and is not expected to eat PP minutes and provide "offense", whereas the latter was seen as a "final piece" even though he never actually was.
 
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Deflecting? I genuinly dislike Trocheck this season.

Edit: Removed childish response
Lafreniere, Kreider & Zibanejad pretty objectively have had worse seasons. Trocheck is not without blame but he was one of the few that (futilely) tried to change the tide during the disastrous Nov-Dec, based on his contract his baseline expectations should align closer to a good 3C rather than 1C he's been doing as Panarin partner (and inability of Zibanejad to meet expectations for this role).

@eco's bones made this observation already but it did worth mentioning production from key leaders in this latest 1-4 team's spiral.
 
Lafreniere, Kreider & Zibanejad pretty objectively have had worse seasons. Trocheck is not without blame but he was one of the few that (futilely) tried to change the tide during the disastrous Nov-Dec, based on his contract his baseline expectations should align closer to a good 3C rather than 1C he's been doing as Panarin partner (and inability of Zibanejad to meet expectations for this role).

@eco's bones made this observation already but it did worth mentioning production from key leaders in this latest 1-4 team's spiral.
yup. Bread, Fox (shocked, honestly), Trochek...

Laf still gets passes because this dude is still being given less than 16 mins/game, which is a testament to just how f***ing dumb this coaching staff is
 
I can get behind the idea of trading Kreider, Zib, Panarin and rebuilding. But the idea that you're going to trade those guys and give their ice time to the kids and the team will somehow be better next year is just pure delusion.
 
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I can get behind the idea of trading Kreider, Zib, Panarin and rebuilding. But the idea that you're going to trade those guys and give their ice time to the kids and the team will somehow be better next year is just pure delusion.
I think the idea is to clear cap space for a move in 12 months from today
 
I think the idea is to clear cap space for a move in 12 months from today
For a 30 year UFA center to go with a 33 year old center? Maybe but that's not what a lot of people here are saying. They're saying removing those three and giving their ice time to the likes of Berard, Ottman, Cuyle and I guess Perault will make the team better. I just don't see it.
 
For a 30 year UFA center to go with a 33 year old center? Maybe but that's not what a lot of people here are saying. They're saying removing those three and giving their ice time to the likes of Berard, Ottman, Cuyle and I guess Perault will make the team better. I just don't see it.
It's more likely that they want to find a free agent for $10M to put up in the top 6. Think Rantaanen except a player who can actually score.
 
I think we're in the right to believe "we'll believe it when we see it".

Chris Drury has not inspired confidence. The organizational strategy at targeting players has not inspired confidence. The homegrown youngsters are showing some promise but nothing eye opening or roster changing.

I'm not seeing much reason for optimism? Anywhere? Is getting rid of Panarin going to make Gabe a 50 point rookie? Is getting rid of Kreider going to make Othmann a 20 goal scorer?

The only reason for optimism is "it couldn't have gone worse than it has". And even that's generous, imo.

TO be clear, i'm totally fine with getting rid of Panarin and Kreider at a minimum. No issue. I think them being addition by subtraction in totality is literal f***ing lunacy.


They could literally run it back with this exact roster and a different HC and be a top 3 team in the division next year.

Not saying thats what they should do or will do (No way after the way this year played out) and I'm not even saying that there aren't major issues with this roster (f*** yes there are, some of the same ones for years) and @Machinehead nailed it when he said that this team has blown at fundamentals, even in years where they're good.

But lol at the doom casting. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I didn't hear the same shit after the 2023 season.
 
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It's more likely that they want to find a free agent for $10M to put up in the top 6. Think Rantaanen except a player who can actually score.
He's not signing anywhere for 10m but I get your point. I still don't see how that one guy makes them any better than what they are now with this roster.
 
Lol at people already professing the team dead in the water next year.

I've seen too many "shit" teams basically transform themselves with a simple coaching change alone.
I’d like to see a what a good GM could come in and do with a Schneider trade being the first move. Honestly not even a good GM. Just a normal human with object permanence that can count to 10
 
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They could literally run it back with this exact roster and a different HC and be a top 3 team in the division next year.

Not saying thats what they should do or will do (No way after the way this year played out) and I'm not even saying that there aren't major issues with this roster (f*** yes there are, some of the same ones for years) and @Machinehead nailed it when he said that this team has blown at fundamentals, even in years where they're good.

But lol at the doom casting. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I didn't hear the same shit after the 2023 season.
I mean, yeah, but they went into the following year with the same problems, despite winning games.

Quick turnarounds can happen but they need to actually fix the problems, and they probably need to get lucky on some things.

I'm still "wait and see" on whether or not they'll identify the problems at all.
 
I don't get the fascination with Peca. He's on the staff now and the team eats an entire ass.

It feels like when we got rid of Gorton so his AGM could take over and coddle the same old favorites.
May as well forget about Sullivan....imagine him with no great guys that play with an edge like Crosby ...it would be pretty darn sad .....almost laughable . Crosby made so many raise their level of compete across their entire organization .....that is the type of guy he is . Kris Letang was also a mean piece of gear to go against over the years . you won't find a guy like him on our roster or in our system either . You want guys like that you need to start drafting out of the Major Junior leagues .
 
I think a better example than 2023 would be 2010.

They were an old, really bad team that just missed the playoffs. Within three years they were good, and by 2014 they were great.

But like I said, they got lucky on things. Zuccarello landed extremely well for a European import. Brassard was really only good here (we get the opposite now!). Stralman just appeared one day like the big bang theory. Every trade landed. Torts was the last real transformative coach in the league.

The odds are in favor of that not happening again, plus Stepan, Kreider, and McDonagh in the pipeline is way more than this team has right now.
 
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I think a better example than 2023 would be 2010.

They were an old, really bad team that just missed the playoffs. Within three years they were good, and by 2014 they were great.

But like I said, they got lucky on things. Zuccarello landed extremely well for a European import. Brassard was really only good here (we get the opposite now!). Stralman just appeared one day like the big bang theory. Every trade landed. Torts was the last real transformative coach in the league.

The odds are in favor of that not happening again, plus Stepan, Kreider, and McDonagh in the pipeline is way more than this team has right now.
Plus let’s be real, as much as we loved those teams, they didn’t finish the job either. Close but not close enough as usual
 
They're in the playoffs hunt with 0 players having great seasons and 2 having good seasons with everyone else average to unplayable.

A new coach will 1000% give a bump, but not as much as 4 guys having bounce back years.

Still weird being the optimist but this is a top 12 team next year.
Not unless Fox hires Ovie's trainer . If said trainer can perform brain transplants or SpockVulcan type work....on KMiller and a few other guys like Laf -Kreider-Mika then we could shock the hockey World .
 

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