Speculation: Roster Building thread: Part XIX (Thanks, Sam)

[haohmaru]

it should say even more that we gave Borgen 2nd pair minutes right away and then extended him instead of giving Schneider a shot. probably because he sucks.

We can skewer Laviolette over a host of lineup decisions, stratagems, and player management over a a whole slew of players without it leading to a definitive "who's better" throughout the lineup.

 

[haohmaru]

There are really only two reasons in the Rangers current situation to trading Miller / keeping Schneider option:

1. Schneider contract will be cheaper for at least the next 3-6 years
2. Miller would bring more via trade

Both more or less indicate that Miller is a better player (I'm not going to use "sucks" etc)

*Schneider is 2.5 years younger and is a position that's more coveted (RD).

Their return would likely be similar.

The reason to keep him is upside, $, and (lack of) ease of replacement.

And then, you have to consider, K'Andre's issues at this point really aren't "fixable". He has spot horrendous decision making that leads directly to losses.

I get the counter arguments. I really do. For me, I'm trading Miller before Schneider.

 

[Fitzy]

I'd be thrilled if we traded K'Andre since his style of play drives me absolutely up the f***ing wall, but if you do you've got a long laundry list of 2 top 4 LHD to fill, as I've zero faith in a team with Soucy in it's top 4 to be a cup competitor.

 

[lakeshirts37]

Lafreniere and Schneider in a deal to BUF for Peterka and Bernard-Docker.

K'Andre Miller in a deal to ANA for Mason McTavish.

Kreider to BOS for a 2nd Round Pick.

Sign Sam Bennett ($8.5M AAV), Ivan Provorov ($6.5M AAV), Aaron Ekblad ($5.5M AAV) and Yanni Gourde ($4M AAV). Trading Laf, Schneider, K. Miller, and Kreider would free up around $22M - $23M in potential cap space; plenty to sign these UFA's.

Bennett - Miller - Zibanejad
Panarin - Trocheck - Peterka
Gourde - McTavish - Othmann
Edstrom - Carrick - Rempe

Provorov - Fox
Soucy - Borgen
Bernard-Docker/Vaakanainen - Ekblad

Shesterkin
Quick

As far as head coaches go, if Pittsburgh fires Mike Sullivan, he should be the next head coach of the Rangers. If not; go after an AHL head coach who has had recent success.

That bennett contract is INSANE

 

[lakeshirts37]

Kreider for Lindholm

The trade is 1 for 1

Same exact cap hit ($6.5m) but Lindholm has 3 years left in lieu of Kreider's 2. Both have had disappointing seasons. The problem for Lindholm has always been health. That could be a reason why Drury is keen to have both Vaak and Soucy for next year.

Miller-Fox
Lindholm-Borgen
Schneider-Clarke (I am wishing the Panarin to LA for Clarke + in to existence)
Soucy-Vaak

No on lindholm

 

[Machinehead]

I think Miller is a player who has potential if some of the larger problems were fixed.

He has bad breakdowns but everyone does. That's hockey. Plus, man on man sucks. Not calling out anyone in particular but it drives me crazy when we harp on breakdowns. NHL teams get scoring chances.

If this team actually played positions and had any semblance of a breakout scheme, it would mask some of Miller's errors and he would be a more dynamic puck-mover.

Schneider, I also think would benefit from better team breakouts as he's not hopeless at moving the puck, far from it, but his defensive IQ is nonexistent at this level. It hasn't gotten better and it's not something that typically makes huge jumps. You can either read the NHL game or you can't.

Miller is stupid too but it's a different kind of stupid. Team play can mask mistakes and give guys easier decisions to make. Schneider is slow to react. One guy makes errors trying to do much under pressure; the other guy can't process the game under any scenario. The latter is worse.

 

[McRanger92]

And he's 23, not 24. I mean, it's March and his birthday is in September. It's not like it's next week.

23 is super young and he's going to be close to 300 games by the time this season ends. He's one of the guys I build around moving forward if I'm the GM.

I "throw" him "in" to our lineup for the next 7 years.

I see no reason to trade anyone in their 20s unless its for a major upgrade.

 

[Fitzy]

I like the idea of spreading the offense out over 3 lines by trying to be strategic with the "3rd member" on each line. Just not the combos they decided to go with.

 

[McRanger92]

I like the idea of spreading the offense out over 3 lines by trying to be strategic with the "3rd member" on each line. Just not the combos they decided to go with.

JT and Brodzinski hopefully can show Lafreniere what it's like to be a leader. Othmann in the top 6 is good and long overdue. He has skill. Its unfortunate that Cuylle has been used to prob up these deadbeat veterans all year. He should get the Steven McDonald award no doubt

 

[Machinehead]

I see no reason to trade anyone in their 20s unless its for a major upgrade.

I'm not saying go out and trade Schneider just for the hell of it. I just think he's being overvalued in some of the proposals for upgrades.

 

[JohnC]

*Schneider is 2.5 years younger and is a position that's more coveted (RD).

Their return would likely be similar.

The reason to keep him is upside, $, and (lack of) ease of replacement.

And then, you have to consider, K'Andre's issues at this point really aren't "fixable". He has spot horrendous decision making that leads directly to losses.

I get the counter arguments. I really do. For me, I'm trading Miller before Schneider.

I know you’ve been on a full hyperbole kick with KAM this season, but the age gap between him and Schneider is about 1.5 years, not 2.5.

 

[mike14]

JT and Brodzinski hopefully can show Lafreniere what it's like to be a leader. Othmann in the top 6 is good and long overdue. He has skill. Its unfortunate that Cuylle has been used to prob up these deadbeat veterans all year. He should get the Steven McDonald award no doubt

Swap Cuylle and Brodz, and then add Carrick back in and I'm ok with it based on what we are currently working with. And then just give the 4th line a bit more ice time in games where they are getting the forecheck and cycle going

 

[haohmaru]

I know you’ve been on a full hyperbole kick with KAM this season, but the age gap between him and Schneider is about 1.5 years, not 2.5.

Yes, that's fair, the age thing.

As far as KAM goes, sporadically commented on how he's less than stellar but I'd hardly call it a "full hyperbole kick... this season". Maybe 10-15 posts? All year?

He's not terrible. I just don't think the cost will justify the player. And some of his gaffes are really hard to watch.

 

[JohnC]

Yes, that's fair, the age thing.

As far as KAM goes, sporadically commented on how he's less than stellar but I'd hardly call it a "full hyperbole kick... this season". Maybe 10-15 posts? All year?

He's not terrible. I just don't think the cost will justify the player. And some of his gaffes are really hard to watch.

This has been said multiple times and the easy rebuttal every time is that the team can probably get him for ~5% of the cap. You take that for a #3 D’s age 25-30 season 10 times out of 10.

 

[duhmetreE]

JT and Brodzinski hopefully can show Lafreniere what it's like to be a leader. Othmann in the top 6 is good and long overdue. He has skill. Its unfortunate that Cuylle has been used to prob up these deadbeat veterans all year. He should get the Steven McDonald award no doubt

4D chess from Drury..... Cuylle was too hot and was going to get too much....

 

[effen]

I'm not saying go out and trade Schneider just for the hell of it. I just think he's being overvalued in some of the proposals for upgrades.

The fact he didn't get a sniff with Miller to carry the load and they basically snap signed Borgen after watching him for a month tells you all you need to know. 3rd pairing for what, 4 years now?

They're gonna put Urho Vaakanainen with Adam Fox but not Schneider?!? And I like Urho a lot! Not even a game? Ditch him before the rest of the league figures out whatever the Rangers did.

 

[McRanger92]

I'm not saying go out and trade Schneider just for the hell of it. I just think he's being overvalued in some of the proposals for upgrades.

I get ya but dont overthink why other teams want him. He is big strong and can skate. He doesnt miss games due to injury. I think he's a guy you move at 24 and regret it when you see what he becomes at age 28. I think we need to have that view with a lot of guys on this team.

 

[Boris Zubov]

A buddy of mine sent me this Substack article from a guy I never heard of, but it seems like he's been reading these boards for awhile now...

The Rangers missed their window

The party's over for Chris Drury, it's just a matter of when he realizes

nickzarariscontent.substack.com

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

A buddy of mine sent me this Substack article from a guy I never heard of, but it seems like he's been reading these boards for awhile now...

The Rangers missed their window

The party's over for Chris Drury, it's just a matter of when he realizes

nickzarariscontent.substack.com

Not a bad read outside of being a Panarin truther.

 

[DanielBrassard]

A buddy of mine sent me this Substack article from a guy I never heard of, but it seems like he's been reading these boards for awhile now...

The Rangers missed their window

The party's over for Chris Drury, it's just a matter of when he realizes

nickzarariscontent.substack.com

Nick is a very smart guy when it comes to the Rangers, he does a podcast called the liberty blue podcast. Definitely recommend.

 

[Machinehead]

I get ya but dont overthink why other teams want him. He is big strong and can skate. He doesnt miss games due to injury. I think he's a guy you move at 24 and regret it when you see what he becomes at age 28. I think we need to have that view with a lot of guys on this team.

I hear you on having that view on guys if/when we can get rid of the rot, but I'm concerned about how far the rot goes and how many guys we need to get rid of.

 

[Machinehead]

Nick is a very smart guy when it comes to the Rangers, he does a podcast called the liberty blue podcast. Definitely recommend.

Did I hear Liberty?!

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

I think Miller is a player who has potential if some of the larger problems were fixed.

He has bad breakdowns but everyone does. That's hockey. Plus, man on man sucks. Not calling out anyone in particular but it drives me crazy when we harp on breakdowns. NHL teams get scoring chances.

If this team actually played positions and had any semblance of a breakout scheme, it would mask some of Miller's errors and he would be a more dynamic puck-mover.

Schneider, I also think would benefit from better team breakouts as he's not hopeless at moving the puck, far from it, but his defensive IQ is nonexistent at this level. It hasn't gotten better and it's not something that typically makes huge jumps. You can either read the NHL game or you can't.

Miller is stupid too but it's a different kind of stupid. Team play can mask mistakes and give guys easier decisions to make. Schneider is slow to react. One guy makes errors trying to do much under pressure; the other guy can't process the game under any scenario. The latter is worse.

It’s crazy how people are obsessed with big unskilled D but hate Miller who is like the absolute best version of that player type

 

[haohmaru]

This has been said multiple times and the easy rebuttal every time is that the team can probably get him for ~5% of the cap. You take that for a #3 D’s age 25-30 season 10 times out of 10.

There's no easy rebuttal when you don't know what the number is.

5% of 95.5 is 4.775M and he's NOT signing for that. Think 6+ as the Rangers starting offer.

Furthermore, what's the term? How much is it going into his UFA year(s)?

The "easy rebuttal" is easy because it's bullshit.

 

[egelband]

It doesn’t matter how the Soucy/Vaakanainen/Miller/Borgen/Schneider blob shakes out if there isn’t a legit 1LHD partner for Fox.

Lindgren may be gone, which is great because we do not have to pay him. But we still have not solved the Lindgren problem

I know it’s a big ask but all I want this summer is a top six forward, ideally a center, with a great motor. And an excellent defenseman to pair with Fox. The bottom six forwards and the bottom four D are fine. Goaltending is fine too, of course.