Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV (To trade or not to trade is the question)

[McRanger92]

Buying him out should not be an option. I get addition by subtraction, but these buy-out proof contracts make it difficult to replace a player while maintaining that cap hit. If they can't find a trade for Zibanejad (NMC waived), to a team who willingly taking 100-50%, then the only option left is retaining 50% with an overpayment to a 3rd team eating half of what's left.

What's worse, giving up an overpayment removing a couple of years of assets, or keeping Zibanejad? I'm not really sure anymore. The future looks to have a set back either way.

Minnesota is doing fine with their buyout proof buyouts. Maybe it could teach some financial restraint in NY

 

[nyr2k2]

Some of the deals were fine. The Nash trade was solid and I really like getting Lindgren. The Grabner deal looked good at the time. I liked the Zucc and Hayes deals, mostly. They were at least market value.

The Holden deal was weird but largely inconsequential. Of course the most consequential was also the most catastrophic and that was shipping out McDonagh, Miller, and Namestnikov. I don't think Miller becomes the player he is now had he not been jettisoned by us and by Tampa (he basically said as much) but that deal was still a huge failure. Had they nailed this deal there's probably a much different narrative around the team from that time.

 

[McRanger92]

Give the fans something to cheer about

 

[JohnC]

I hated that trade so much. I know we all harp about the Buch trade, but trading Miller for essentially nothing was so awful.

He’s kind of a jerk, but I wonder if that’s not the worst thing in the world for this team right now, and might be what Drury wants.

Yeah what could go wrong with adding an apparent douchebag to a room full of (alleged) fragile personalities.

 

[grachevsceiling]

if shesterkin plays, his arm will probably fall off after the first period. 12:30 on a sunday before the holidays? rod the bod has his rodbots ready for a game of painful attrition. this is a statement game about whether you want humans or AI to win the next century. say what you want about zib but Sartre would be proud. he’s feeling the feels. aho cuts his mustache to rod’s specifications. you want to copy Florida, fine, Dru, but not these f*ckers.

^^this is a positive post about the rangers

 

[bernmeister]

Buying him out should not be an option. I get addition by subtraction, but these buy-out proof contracts make it difficult to replace a player while maintaining that cap hit. If they can't find a trade for Zibanejad (NMC waived), to a team who willingly taking 100-50%, then the only option left is retaining 50% with an overpayment to a 3rd team eating half of what's left.

What's worse, giving up an overpayment removing a couple of years of assets, or keeping Zibanejad? I'm not really sure anymore. The future looks to have a set back either way.

Third option
eat half on zib
makes him much more attractive
if he busts as a head case wigging out
acquiring team can still move retaining half again for 2+ only to cap cellar dweller

 

[TGWL]

Minnesota is doing fine with their buyout proof buyouts. Maybe it could teach some financial restraint in NY

Zibanejad has 5 more years on the high cap hit, and they just gave out a buyout proof contract to Igor at 11.5M. Unfortunately, it's not going to be as easy when you have multiple players making over 8M, with players needing their raise/replacements before those buyouts come off the cap. Rangers have to replace Panarin with a high level talent, because if they don't, nothing really matters. This organization will continue hanging out those NMC.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Some of the deals were fine. The Nash trade was solid and I really like getting Lindgren. The Grabner deal looked good at the time. I liked the Zucc and Hayes deals, mostly. They were at least market value.

The Holden deal was weird but largely inconsequential. Of course the most consequential was also the most catastrophic and that was shipping out McDonagh, Miller, and Namestnikov. I don't think Miller becomes the player he is now had he not been jettisoned by us and by Tampa (he basically said as much) but that deal was still a huge failure. Had they nailed this deal there's probably a much different narrative around the team from that time.

I felt the Zuch trade would have been fair with lesser conditions.

I didn't like some of the deals but understand Gorton was trading from a place of weakness.

I did like the Nash deal.

I felt like we threw away JT to make the McD trade which was bad. Tampa always got the better of Gorton in trades.

 

[will1066]

I'm not a pianist, but I'd happily play the borgen

 

[TGWL]

Third option
eat half on zib
makes him much more attractive
if he busts as a head case wigging out
acquiring team can still move retaining half again for 2+ only to cap cellar dweller

Is that really the 3rd option? I only gave 2 options and retaining on Zibanejad was my first option.

 

[LionsHeart]

Yeah what could go wrong with adding an apparent douchebag to a room full of (alleged) fragile personalities.

That’s the problem though, it hasn’t worked with the fragile personalities they have now, and that might be part of what Drury wants to get jettison out of here.

Whether Miller should be that guy or not is a fair question.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Lots of smoke around Vancouver and Buffalo. They have def been talking. The original proposal I heard was Pettersson for Cozens and Byram, Buf said no. Van then asked about Tuch and Buf said he was a non starter.

Sorry, but there is ZERO chance Buffalo turned down Petterson for those two guys.

 

[will1066]

Holy absorbed thread, Batman

 

[Matt Rentfree]

I'm not a pianist, but I'd happily play the borgen

The upright borgen?

 

[grachevsceiling]

do borgs use the eye test?
if a borg used the eye test would anybody see it?

 

[FultonReed]

Holy absorbed thread, Batman

what happened =O

 

[Boris Zubov]

The upright borgen?

AKA, The Happy Borgen...

 

[Matt Rentfree]

AKA, The Happy Borgen...

He broke up the monotony of 1-4-5 by inserting a 5-4-1. That's about as creative as it got in the 50's

 

[Boris Zubov]

He broke up the monotony of 1-4-5 by inserting a 5-4-1. That's about as creative as it got in the 50's

For those of us with zero songwriting ability, please explain this in laymen's terms.

The only reason I know this song is back in the 80s, before WFAN existed, Fordham's WFUV 90.7 had a sports talk show called One on One every Saturday & Sunday night from 10-Midnight. The Happy Organ was their outro when signing off.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

For those of us with zero songwriting ability, please explain this in laymen's terms.

The only reason I know this song is back in the 80s, before WFAN existed, Fordham's WFUV 90.7 had a sports talk show called One on One every Saturday & Sunday night from 10-Midnight. The Happy Organ was their outro when signing off.

A great deal of rock songs from the '50's (in fact, a great deal of rock songs generally) use a 1-4-5 chord progression. It just means that whatever key you're in, you start on the 1 chord (the root chord of the key - i.e. if you're in A Major - the one chord is A Major), then you move to the 4 chord (which in the A Major example would be D Major) and then the 5 chord (E Major in our example). In the song, it's mostly 1-4-5, but he reverses it now and then - basically doing the same chord progression backwards.

 

[kovazub94]

I’ll keep pointing this out for this offseason but Drury has a very unique opportunity to rebuild this teams defense quickly and to one that I think would actually augment the forwards and goalie they have currently.

Drury is clearly trying to build a forward group who likes to push the pace and play a more physical brand of hockey. Cuylle, Berard, Othmann, Edstrom, Rempe. These guys have no problem getting to the slot and battling in front. The issue this team has currently is they lack guys who can move laterally across the blue line and get pucks to and around the net. Fox is really it.

The addition of another will help this. He’s an above average skater who isn’t shy about shooting. Miller should be able to do this if he can buy in. Schneider is actually pretty good at this as well.

So that leaves us with:

Miller-Fox
_____-Borgen
______-Schneider

Sign Borgen for 4 years at $3.75m

The two guys I’m looking at are Orlov and Provorov. Both of those guys skate really well and while they are both gamblers they also help create offensive opportunities with their skating and lateral mobility. I don’t think Orlov requires a long term deal with his age and I think Provorov’s next deal could be ‘reasonable’. Say

Sign Orlov for 3 years at $4.5m
Sign Provorov for 6 year at $6m

Provorv-Fox
Miller-Schneider
Orlov-Borgen

I will say that if there was a legitimate deal on the table for Miller, I’d consider it. It would need to be either a high end forward or a high end forward prospect +. Think something like the Drysdale trade with Anaheim and Philly last year.

In that case, I’d just be on the lookout for a depth LD. I’m not sold on Jones…

It this the plan I can even see them moving Miller before he’s stock loses value. This the third season I’m looking for a noticeable improvement in his game including a cut down of mental errors and I don’t see it.

If our left side has both of these Russians I’d not care much who’s 3LD (replacement level).

 

[Boris Zubov]

A great deal of rock songs from the '50's (in fact, a great deal of rock songs generally) use a 1-4-5 chord progression. It just means that whatever key you're in, you start on the 1 chord (the root chord of the key - i.e. if you're in A Major - the one chord is A Major), then you move to the 4 chord (which in the A Major example would be D Major) and then the 5 chord (E Major in our example). In the song, it's mostly 1-4-5, but he reverses it now and then - basically doing the same chord progression backwards.

 

[kovazub94]

Even though origins of issues are different I see a lot of similarities from the organizational perspective and from the players in Vancouver with JTM and the Rangers with Zibanejad. If everything was going as expected in both cases there’d be no grounds for change. We know there’s NTC barriers on both sides but from teams perspective it would be close to neutral roster construction impact if there was some one for one change. Most other situations would require a complicated trade that’s always a case when players of this level are put in place.

 

[McRanger92]

Zibanejad has 5 more years on the high cap hit, and they just gave out a buyout proof contract to Igor at 11.5M. Unfortunately, it's not going to be as easy when you have multiple players making over 8M, with players needing their raise/replacements before those buyouts come off the cap. Rangers have to replace Panarin with a high level talent, because if they don't, nothing really matters. This organization will continue hanging out those NMC.

Is Perrault a high level talent or no? I don’t think Panarin is this irreplaceable piece in 2 years. They can reinvest that money throughout the lineup instead of spending it on 1 guy and running the risk of him failing in the playoffs as he has in NY. I like Bread I just think his time here is ending. All that being said, I’d really just prefer Mika to agree to a trade if he’s not going to play up to his own standards.

Even though origins of issues are different I see a lot of similarities from the organizational perspective and from the players in Vancouver with JTM and the Rangers with Zibanejad. If everything was going as expected in both cases there’d be no grounds for change. We know there’s NTC barriers on both sides but from teams perspective it would be close to neutral roster construction impact if there was some one for one change. Most other situations would require a complicated trade that’s always a case when players of this level are put in place.

Wait until Mika plays on a line with Petey, and JT plays on a line with Kreider and Trocheck at the 4 nations.

 

[kovazub94]

Some of the deals were fine. The Nash trade was solid and I really like getting Lindgren. The Grabner deal looked good at the time. I liked the Zucc and Hayes deals, mostly. They were at least market value.

The Holden deal was weird but largely inconsequential. Of course the most consequential was also the most catastrophic and that was shipping out McDonagh, Miller, and Namestnikov. I don't think Miller becomes the player he is now had he not been jettisoned by us and by Tampa (he basically said as much) but that deal was still a huge failure. Had they nailed this deal there's probably a much different narrative around the team from that time.

If the Rangers had a better evaluation of the defensive prospect they were getting and more patient with Howden I could see a better acceptance of that trade as reasonable.