Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV (To trade or not to trade is the question)

[Guyute]

Kreider is going to get a similar return to what we got for Zuccarello, if he's traded. not even sure if it's worth it.

He's not an expiring UFA and is well respected for his PP net front ability and PKing. He will easily fetch more than Zuccarello did in a trade.

 

[LokiDog]

BTW, Bichsel and a 1st for a Kreider is beyond a pipe dream. Totally not happening.

That would be amazing but I don't see Dallas relinquishing Bichsel. God knows Drury wants to collect all the 6'7" players in the league to form Hockey Exodia.

I agree. I would LOVE Bichsel here. He’s genuinely talented, moves extremely, extremely well for his size and would look absolutely incredible next to Fox long term. There would be some warts and growing pains at first, but long term he’s got the full package. He’s not your typical behemoth who lacks skills but has size; he was taken 18th overall and would probably crack the top 10 in a redraft. Very much Hedman-lite - and we don’t need a full on Hedman if we’re keeping Fox. I can’t see the Stars moving him easily.

That said, Heiskanen is their Fox (dude is so underrated, he’s not putting up insane offensive numbers but has shown he can, and his defense is legit top tier) and then they have Harley who is now a bargain at the extension he signed and Lindell who is a better version of pre-death Lindgren, plus Heiskanen and Hintz’s Finnish buddy, all on the left side. It would take Schneider going the other way (to balance the Stars right side which is weak - part of the reason Heiskanen isn’t at his full potential is because he plays his offside). Honestly, that’s something I would consider, because we need LHD so badly, but it’s a somewhat lateral move. Bichsel is tantalizing with the combination of legit skill and skating with all world size. Schneider however, is more proven and on his way at to being a well established second pair guy with the right attitude.

Kreider, Schneider for Bichsel, Bourque and 1st I would probably consider long and hard (giggity) but I like Schneider and I would love to find a way to make it happen without him involved. I’d do Kreider for Bichsel straight up and take Dadanov back as a cap dump who may play well with Panarin. Might sound light to many but I doubt you’ll find us getting a 1st + prospect back where the prospect is as good as Bichsel, and gaining a long term mammoth partner for Fox in a Kreider deal is a W in my opinion. And if we can change the culture (which partially comes from moving Kreider) and we bring in a better coach, or at least D coach (Bye, Housley!) and get Miller back on track, a future top 4 where Fox is the veteran leader and we have Bichsel, Fox, Miller, Schneider as our top 4 would look really good.

I just don’t know if Kreider, even straight up, gets them to move Bichsel at this point. I bet we could get Lindell + 1st which isn’t horrible honestly. He’s been Heiskanen’s partner on the left a lot so he’s familiar playing the left for a Fox level defender. I don’t think the Stars will move Bichsel. Panarin at 50% is a different story. I think two runs with Panarin at half his cap, given how close the Stars have been several times in the 2020s would get them listening. But their biggest need is still RD.

Kreider will bring a solid return if moved. I have no doubt he has solid value around the league and GMs love guys like that, who are perceived as heart and soul guys that play in the trenches. Kreider would be a very good Pavelski replacement for them. I just don’t see them wanting to move anything that moves the needle for us. Dallas probably isn’t his landing spot.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Dallas probably wouldn't even give up Bichsel for Lafreniere. maybe for Fox.

Again, where is he playing?

 

[bernmeister]

It'll be consequences. I don't think Dolan, Drury, or Laviolette give a flying shit about "bern's way".

We had 8 1st rounders in 4 years (2017-2020) - "youth and develop" didn't work either for this club. It's 2024.
...

Again, you continue not to get it
Whether or not Dolan or anyone else gives a flying or stationary crap IS IRRELEVANT!
The pt is, this is the correct approach.

This is especially so now since cap parameters are hard and unyielding w/few loopholes

And to remind of what I said earlier, what I have said about youth is true regardless of who is saying it.
Dolan etc is compelled to accept it on merit for that reason

Failure to do so w/have consequences
Pity your hate for me prompts you to insist on taking the less beneficial approach that avoids consequences

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Get me a guy who keeps it 100% real.

 

[bernmeister]

Kreider is going to get a similar return to what we got for Zuccarello, if he's traded. not even sure if it's worth it.

that can't be answered in a vacuum, depends on the return

we should not undervalue either Kreider or what he would bring

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

How has Sam Girard looked in COL?

Would they consider flipping him for Kreider in a hockey deal? 2 years left at 5m vs Kreider 1 year at 6.5

He makes Zac Jones look like Andre The Giant.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

the problem with this is Jones isn't good enough to make the plays he's trying to pull. that's kind of the whole issue.

My point was just that Jones or any other player aren’t going to make better reads after some scratches

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Kreider is going to get a similar return to what we got for Zuccarello, if he's traded. not even sure if it's worth it.

Yes, it is worth it.

 

[bernmeister]

I agree. I would LOVE Bichsel here. He’s genuinely talented, moves extremely, extremely well for his size and would look absolutely incredible next to Fox long term. There would be some warts and growing pains at first, but long term he’s got the full package. He’s not your typical behemoth who lacks skills but has size; he was taken 18th overall and would probably crack the top 10 in a redraft. Very much Hedman-lite - and we don’t need a full on Hedman if we’re keeping Fox. I can’t see the Stars moving him easily.

That said, Heiskanen is their Fox (dude is so underrated, he’s not putting up insane offensive numbers but has shown he can, and his defense is legit top tier) and then they have Harley who is now a bargain at the extension he signed and Lindell who is a better version of pre-death Lindgren, plus Heiskanen and Hintz’s Finnish buddy, all on the left side. It would take Schneider going the other way (to balance the Stars right side which is weak - part of the reason Heiskanen isn’t at his full potential is because he plays his offside). Honestly, that’s something I would consider, because we need LHD so badly, but it’s a somewhat lateral move. Bichsel is tantalizing with the combination of legit skill and skating with all world size. Schneider however, is more proven and on his way at to being a well established second pair guy with the right attitude.

Kreider, Schneider for Bichsel, Bourque and 1st I would probably consider long and hard (giggity) but I like Schneider and I would love to find a way to make it happen without him involved. I’d do Kreider for Bichsel straight up and take Dadanov back as a cap dump who may play well with Panarin. Might sound light to many but I doubt you’ll find us getting a 1st + prospect back where the prospect is as good as Bichsel, and gaining a long term mammoth partner for Fox in a Kreider deal is a W in my opinion. And if we can change the culture (which partially comes from moving Kreider) and we bring in a better coach, or at least D coach (Bye, Housley!) and get Miller back on track, a future top 4 where Fox is the veteran leader and we have Bichsel, Fox, Miller, Schneider as our top 4 would look really good.

I just don’t know if Kreider, even straight up, gets them to move Bichsel at this point. I bet we could get Lindell + 1st which isn’t horrible honestly. He’s been Heiskanen’s partner on the left a lot so he’s familiar playing the left for a Fox level defender. I don’t think the Stars will move Bichsel. Panarin at 50% is a different story. I think two runs with Panarin at half his cap, given how close the Stars have been several times in the 2020s would get them listening. But their biggest need is still RD.

Kreider will bring a solid return if moved. I have no doubt he has solid value around the league and GMs love guys like that, who are perceived as heart and soul guys that play in the trenches. Kreider would be a very good Pavelski replacement for them. I just don’t see them wanting to move anything that moves the needle for us. Dallas probably isn’t his landing spot.

How about something around
Troc + (KAM?)
for
Bichsel +/++ ?

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Rempe 18 min Hartford > 5 NYR
I’m really starting to strongly dislike this management.

 

[MrAlmost]

Rempe 18 min Hartford > 5 NYR
I’m really starting to strongly dislike this management.

Funniest part is that the kid is playing well in Hartford with the extra time and responsibilities. Hartford, shockingly, plays about the exact opposite of the Rangers and routinely punches up. Haha.

But I think you know that. Pretty sure you watch the pack consistently.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers clear out the rentals for picks. Use the picks to make trades for signed players.

Reilly Smith, Ryan Lindgren, Will Borgen(Chris Johnston on his pod said two teams have targeted Borgen as a trade deadline acquisition), Jimmy Vesey(Staple said the Rangers have tried to trade him), Chad Ruhwedel(stays as a roster filler), Jonathan Quick? Quick has a 20 team NTC list. Does he want to play for a contender?

The Rangers have all of their retention spots. Borgen is cheap at $2.7M. If there was a futures market for trade deadline betting, Dallas is one of the teams interested in Borgen. They are looking for a right handed shooting D who can PK.

Try to package Smith/Lindgren or Smith/Borgen for a 1st round pick. Trade Lindgren or Borgen to the Avs for the Rangers 2nd pick in 2025 acquired from Arizona/Utah. Colorado needs help on D.

Kreider goes for a first round pick. Future first round pick. 2026. The Rangers can include the pick in a future trade for a signed player or someone the Rangers want to pay. Kreider has a no trade list but the first round pick doesn’t have a no trade list. The acquiring team needs to have cap space for the $6.5M. The Rangers could take back an expiring contract or two to make the $$$ work.

The rest of the moves are tougher.

 

[NYR Viper]

The Rangers clear out the rentals for picks. Use the picks to make trades for signed players.

Reilly Smith, Ryan Lindgren, Will Borgen(Chris Johnston on his pod said two teams have targeted Borgen as a trade deadline acquisition), Jimmy Vesey(Staple said the Rangers have tried to trade him), Chad Ruhwedel(stays as a roster filler), Jonathan Quick? Quick has a 20 team NTC list. Does he want to play for a contender?

The Rangers have all of their retention spots. Borgen is cheap at $2.7M. If there was a futures market for trade deadline betting, Dallas is one of the teams interested in Borgen. They are looking for a right handed shooting D who can PK.

Try to package Smith/Lindgren or Smith/Borgen for a 1st round pick. Trade Lindgren or Borgen to the Avs for the Rangers 2nd pick in 2025 acquired from Arizona/Utah. Colorado needs help on D.

Kreider goes for a first round pick. Future first round pick. 2026. The Rangers can include the pick in a future trade for a signed player or someone the Rangers want to pay. Kreider has a no trade list but the first round pick doesn’t have a no trade list. The acquiring team needs to have cap space for the $6.5M. The Rangers could take back an expiring contract or two to make the $$$ work.

The rest of the moves are tougher.

If Drury just moves Kreider, Lindgren, Smith and Vesey that's A LOT of heavy lifting honestly. Borgen is an interesting one to see how he fits and what he asks for. If it's too much, trade him too.

 

[UnparalledPark]

EP is just another Mika, soft and disappears. Give me a team full of JT Millers, this team needs

I hope Rempe does something violent and exciting tonight and everyone seethes over it.

Only if you are at the game

I agree. I would LOVE Bichsel here. He’s genuinely talented, moves extremely, extremely well for his size and would look absolutely incredible next to Fox long term. There would be some warts and growing pains at first, but long term he’s got the full package. He’s not your typical behemoth who lacks skills but has size; he was taken 18th overall and would probably crack the top 10 in a redraft. Very much Hedman-lite - and we don’t need a full on Hedman if we’re keeping Fox. I can’t see the Stars moving him easily.

That said, Heiskanen is their Fox (dude is so underrated, he’s not putting up insane offensive numbers but has shown he can, and his defense is legit top tier) and then they have Harley who is now a bargain at the extension he signed and Lindell who is a better version of pre-death Lindgren, plus Heiskanen and Hintz’s Finnish buddy, all on the left side. It would take Schneider going the other way (to balance the Stars right side which is weak - part of the reason Heiskanen isn’t at his full potential is because he plays his offside). Honestly, that’s something I would consider, because we need LHD so badly, but it’s a somewhat lateral move. Bichsel is tantalizing with the combination of legit skill and skating with all world size. Schneider however, is more proven and on his way at to being a well established second pair guy with the right attitude.

Kreider, Schneider for Bichsel, Bourque and 1st I would probably consider long and hard (giggity) but I like Schneider and I would love to find a way to make it happen without him involved. I’d do Kreider for Bichsel straight up and take Dadanov back as a cap dump who may play well with Panarin. Might sound light to many but I doubt you’ll find us getting a 1st + prospect back where the prospect is as good as Bichsel, and gaining a long term mammoth partner for Fox in a Kreider deal is a W in my opinion. And if we can change the culture (which partially comes from moving Kreider) and we bring in a better coach, or at least D coach (Bye, Housley!) and get Miller back on track, a future top 4 where Fox is the veteran leader and we have Bichsel, Fox, Miller, Schneider as our top 4 would look really good.

I just don’t know if Kreider, even straight up, gets them to move Bichsel at this point. I bet we could get Lindell + 1st which isn’t horrible honestly. He’s been Heiskanen’s partner on the left a lot so he’s familiar playing the left for a Fox level defender. I don’t think the Stars will move Bichsel. Panarin at 50% is a different story. I think two runs with Panarin at half his cap, given how close the Stars have been several times in the 2020s would get them listening. But their biggest need is still RD.

Kreider will bring a solid return if moved. I have no doubt he has solid value around the league and GMs love guys like that, who are perceived as heart and soul guys that play in the trenches. Kreider would be a very good Pavelski replacement for them. I just don’t see them wanting to move anything that moves the needle for us. Dallas probably isn’t his landing spot.

kreider has a bad back and hasn’t set up in front of the net in months. Dallas knows this.

 

[lakeshirts37]

They dodged f***ing bullets, that's what they did.

That Robinson + 1st for Kreider trade, that was alleged to have been on the table, would have been grand larceny for us.

the discussion was about their fans

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Only if you are at the game

kreider has a bad back and hasn’t set up in front of the net in months. Dallas knows this.

Kreider should go on IR. No shame in that.
Call up Belzile.

 

[Machinehead]

The dude has 79, 108, 80 point seasons. This year 21 pts in 31 games.

Looks more like this season is the outlier, we'll pick this up in two seasons.

108 is an outlier next to 79 and 80, and he's going to get eve slower as he ages. I'd rather take a flier on a different return.

 

[LokiDog]

I don't know. Robertson's 22-23 is starting to look like a major outlier and the dude literally can't skate.

Yep. I’d give him a pass this year to see if he can recover but it’s not looking good. However, this is similar to the Fox argument. Robertson’s skating was a weakness when he was drafted. He worked on it a lot and got to a level that was passable but then he had foot surgery this off-season and this year he is just unable to keep up. That’s the problem with guys whose skating is borderline; all it takes is a serious injury or a lot of cumulative wear and tear and you’re hoping they can regain the lost step. With Robo, I actually don’t think he will. He’ll probably be a bit better than he’s been so far this season, but I doubt you ever see more than 75ish points from
Him again. Not as worried about Fox’s skating, but it’s the same type of concern. Lose a step and it really puts you behind the 8 ball.

 

[lakeshirts37]

I wonder what taking a big swing is that Elliotte seems to think the rangers want to take. I know Larry dropped the BT rumors a couple weeks ago but I think that ship has sailed. And they are going to have to move out more future salary commitments.

he’s speculating for clicks

 

[Machinehead]

Yep. I’d give him a pass this year to see if he can recover but it’s not looking good. However, this is similar to the Fox argument. Robertson’s skating was a weakness when he was drafted. He worked on it a lot and got to a level that was passable but then he had foot surgery this off-season and this year he is just unable to keep up. That’s the problem with guys whose skating is borderline; all it takes is a serious injury or a lot of cumulative wear and tear and you’re hoping they can regain the lost step. With Robo, I actually don’t think he will. He’ll probably be a bit better than he’s been so far this season, but I doubt you ever see more than 75ish points from
Him again. Not as worried about Fox’s skating, but it’s the same type of concern. Lose a step and it really puts you behind the 8 ball.

Yeah, I get the similarity, but the thing with Fox is that he's an unimpressive skater for the type of player he is. There are worse skaters on the team.

Robertson is on the shortlist of worst skaters in the NHL. He makes Kakko look elegant.

 

[lakeshirts37]

Kreider is going to get a similar return to what we got for Zuccarello, if he's traded. not even sure if it's worth it.

No kreider will 100% return more.

 

[Atax]

If for some magical reason, this team turns it around, and makes the playoffs..
Be a menace must be included somehow in our avatars/pics.

 

[lakeshirts37]

is bichsel untouchable in Dallas?

 

[LokiDog]

is bischel untouchable in Dallas?

I’d say no, but likely not going to be moved for a 33+ year old. Dallas would move him to address right side weakness on D, probably exclusively. Otter is solid in net. They have very strong forward depth, though I still see them wanting to add a player LIKE Kreider at the deadline, but they have Heiskanen, Harley, Lindell, Bichsel on the left and Lyubushkin, Dumba and Lundkvist on the right. Heiskanen plays his off side to try and balance it, but I think they want a RHD. I won’t be surprised if they go after Ekblad in free agency.