Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV (To trade or not to trade is the question)

[Graves97]

@ Dallas
Carolina
@ New Jersey
@ Tampa
@ Florida
Boston
@ Washington
@ Chicago
Dallas
New Jersey
@ Vegas
@ Colorado

There is a real chance we are in the bottom ~5 in the league in a month.

time to strap in boys, its about to get rough

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

They need a leader. None of the guys who have A’s just for showing up with a big contract these last few years have stepped up. Honestly wtf is Kreider’s deal? He should know better but he seems like another quitter.

No doubt.

It feels old. And tired. There are a lot of miles on this core. And a lot of failure when things really got tough.

I really feel like last season they spent it all and it wasn't good enough and they know that deep down. They knew going into this season it was Cup or bust with the same group. Once there was some adversity they became shell-shocked like when they got run out of the playoffs by the Devils.

Then their leader was sent packing and they self-imploded and began pointing fingers. It was a bad choice running it back at all.

time to strap in boys, its about to get rough

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If it isnt already. I see an 8-10 spot open with a lottery chance

 

[DevilDog99]

So you get rid of two of your hardest working leaders on the team (in the worst way possible) and the locker room collapses.

Oh, I wonder why we are so bad? It's like some of the "fans" on this board are running the team. You don't win with guys like mika, fox, miller, kakko, etc. Weak players, weak room, weak team. I've been screaming this for years.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

You’ve been going on and on and on and on that they are not leaders. Which is it?

They are clearly the ones running the locker room, so yes they are the leaders of the country club.

 

[bhamill]

To score 30 goals, you have to control the puck at least 30 times. I don't think he can do that.

Did it 18 times as a 21 year old. I'm thinking it's within the realm of possibility, but I see him rounding into more of a 25 goal scorer with proper usage and a little regular pp time.

 

[mrmovies779]

He needs to be more steady to settle into that role.

You can't have a Ray Bourque turnover every shift if you're not an offensive star.

That's why he gets scratched. Turnovers drive coaches crazy.

Unless you are Mika,Miller or Kreider...you can make all the turnovers and blind passes you want with no fear of a scratch

 

[McRanger92]

Did it 18 times as a 21 year old. I'm thinking it's within the realm of possibility, but I see him rounding into more of a 25 goal scorer with proper usage and a little regular pp time.

25 goals and regular PP time is possible, but it won’t be for a team who wins anything. He’s not a top 6 player on a top team.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Kreider, Trocheck, Laff, Fox, Igor, Schneider, Miller. How is it possible all of these guys are struggling so hard after the year they had last year? It almost defies explanation. And I'm not even talking about career highs, they don't even look competent most nights. The only guys having decent years are Cuylle and Panarin. This isn't normal.

 

[Machinehead]

I would also argue that if you want to a build a team that's physical and tough to play against, that they've built towards that.

Cuylle, Berard, Edstrom, Othmann, Sykora, Chmelar, Rempe too I guess.

The coming acquisitions and draft picks need to be about skill and moving the puck. To me, that's what's missing from the pipeline.

At least at forward. The defense needs pretty much everything.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Kreider, Trocheck, Laff, Fox, Igor, Schneider, Miller. How is it possible all of these guys are struggling so hard after the year they had last year? It almost defies explanation. And I'm not even talking about career highs, they don't even look competent most nights. The only guys having decent years are Cuylle and Panarin. This isn't normal.

Panarin isn’t having a great year. He’s scoring, but he’s so much worse defensively.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Panarin isn’t having a great year. He’s scoring, but he’s so much worse defensively.

Fair. I was trying to find a few positives.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Buffalo's owner and GM had a meeting with the team. Told them that they believe in them and that the answers are within the room.

Baloney. They look awful and them and the Rangers are 1-2 in terms of playing shitty hockey in the past 6 weeks. They're looking to make changes and build a playoff contender. They have lots of young talent especially in positions of need for the Rangers.

Going on 10 years of no playoffs. Pegula is starting to get impatient. Would he forgive the Rangers' pursuit of Eichel three years ago and deal with Drury? Adams is an inexperienced GM and ripe to make a mistake.

Kreider and Lindgren for Greenway, Samuelsson, and Isak Rosen.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

My fear with what ever they do next is that they’re going to lean too hard into the “grit, character, tuffness” direction.

That is the kind of shit that leads to McIlrath and Lias Andersson.

Im all for heavy hockey, but it has to be with guys who are actually good and there is room for smaller skill guys to work and thrive inside of a more heavy style provided they don’t get domed up the second the games start to matter.

TLDR: we can’t put ourselves in a position where we have players whose leading characteristic is leadership and grit. It’s cool if those things exist too, but they have to be secondary and tertiary to actual skills.

Even for a 4th liner.

 

[McRanger92]

I would also argue that if you want to a build a team that's physical and tough to play against, that they've built towards that.

Cuylle, Berard, Edstrom, Othmann, Sykora, Chmelar, Rempe too I guess.

The coming acquisitions and draft picks need to be about skill and moving the puck. To me, that's what's missing from the pipeline.

At least at forward. The defense needs pretty much everything.

They need a mentality that leads to what Cuylle and Laf showed last night. Stand up for yourself and your teammates, and draw a penalty at a critical moment in the game. That’s toughness. Not revenge fights after clean hits, like the one that got Lindgren’s jaw broken in a preseason game. The defense definitely needs a player or 2 who will blast a guy if they bump Igor. It's been open season on our goalies for too long.

 

[Ruggs225]

Buffalo's owner and GM had a meeting with the team. Told them that they believe in them and that the answers are within the room.

Baloney. They look awful and them and the Rangers are 1-2 in terms of playing shitty hockey in the past 6 weeks. They're looking to make changes and build a playoff contender. They have lots of young talent especially in positions of need for the Rangers.

Going on 10 years of no playoffs. Pegula is starting to get impatient. Would he forgive the Rangers' pursuit of Eichel three years ago and deal with Drury? Adams is an inexperienced GM and ripe to make a mistake.

Kreider and Lindgren for Greenway, Samuelsson, and Isak Rosen.

If we are trading kreider to buffalo, we need to get back owen power. We need a Top 4 defensemen. Samuelsson is not the guy to target. And we dont need Rosen. I want quality over quantity.

Wtf is everyones obsession with greenway. Isnt he a uFA anyway? Like we can just sign him in the offseason if we want. He isnt that good to begin with. Like if they want to throw him in fine, but he isnt not the centerpiece or a valuable piece at all

 

[IDvsEGO]

My fear with what ever they do next is that they’re going to lean too hard into the “grit, character, tuffness” direction.

That is the kind of shit that leads to McIlrath and Lias Andersson.

Im all for heavy hockey, but it has to be with guys who are actually good and there is room for smaller skill guys to work and thrive inside of a more heavy style provided they don’t get domed up the second the games start to matter.

TLDR: we can’t put ourselves in a position where we have players whose leading characteristic is leadership and grit. It’s cool if those things exist too, but they have to be secondary and tertiary to actual skills.

Even for a 4th liner.

Drury has shown that skill is still important.
Perreault is all skill.

I think hes got a good idea of talent and skill. I think hes been handcuffed on his roster and adding around the edges hasn’t been enough.

Freeing up the cap from Mika Kreider Panarin
Would allow a major remake and I’m curious what Drury would do.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Emily banging Drury confirmed.

Sorry @will1066

drury could do a lot better

@ Dallas
Carolina
@ New Jersey
@ Tampa
@ Florida
Boston
@ Washington
@ Chicago
Dallas
New Jersey
@ Vegas
@ Colorado

There is a real chance we are in the bottom ~5 in the league in a month.

i’d be shocked if we’re not. teams around us are mostly playing better. bottom of the east will be a three team race between us and buffalo and montreal

 

[I Eat Crow]

If we are trading kreider to buffalo, we need to get back owen power. We need a Top 4 defensemen. Samuelsson is not the guy to target. And we dont need Rosen. I want quality over quantity.

Wtf is everyones obsession with greenway. Isnt he a uFA anyway? Like we can just sign him in the offseason if we want. He isnt that good to begin with. Like if they want to throw him in fine, but he isnt not the centerpiece or a valuable piece at all

The trade is essentially Lindgren for Greenway and Kreider for Samuelsson and Rosen (rather than a pick). I don't think they'd give up Helenius but he's the guy I would ask for first. Ostlund looks like a bust.

The team needs LHD and centers. They'll need LW'ers too if they deal Kreider and Panarin...

Kreider is not getting back a 1st overall from 4 years ago lol

 

[IDvsEGO]

The trade is essentially Lindgren for Greenway and Kreider for Samuelsson and Rosen (rather than a pick). I don't think they'd give up Helenius but he's the guy I would ask for first. Ostlund looks like a bust.

The team needs LHD and centers. They'll need LW'ers too if they deal Kreider and Panarin...

Kreider is not getting back a 1st overall from 4 years ago lol

If I want anything from Buffalo it’s either power or cozens.
Power is a lhd. Cozens is a center.

 

[haohmaru]

The only 30/30 Kakko will ever do is passing to the other team 30 times in 30 shifts.

He probably likes the taste of beer too.

 

[toNYRico]

I miss Pavel Buchnevich.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

They just need to get a coach with an actual system , and get rid of the players who refuse (93, 20)

Florida play a fast game, high pace game, and they are not full of speedsters by any means. They are not a great skating team. So I don’t want to hear that excuse.

Even when we were “good”, we played shitty hockey.

The lack system play is biting us now, and we can’t even score anymore. I don’t think we’re devoid of talent.

 

[bhamill]

Big and heavy is not fast. And is in fact the opposite of what’s successful in the modern nhl.
The panthers aren’t really that big.
They’re fast and physical.


Big heavy and fast (with skill) is a first overall player.
It’s the old construction adage.
Cheap fast good - pick 2.

NHL players who are
big and fast usually lack skill.
Big and skilled usually slow
Fast and skilled - small

All 3? First overall.


great. Lets actually get slower… that seems like a net positive.

So Cuylle should have gone at 1OA?
I get what you are saying, but its not THAT rare, unless you are talking top 5% in all three areas. Cuylle is like 6'3" 215, not HUGE, fast but no McDavid of course, skilled, and again no McDavid... but he is big, fast and skilled... and there are players like that out there. We should of course try to get BIGGER/HEAVIER on the puck, FASTER, and more SKILLED... I mean obviously. But that doesn't mean EVERY player has to have all three attributes: Fox is skilled but not fast or big, so maybe a partner who has size and speed would be great... complimentary pieces. And playing heavier doesn't mean you have to be BIG. Look at Berard, fast, good skill, good aggression, not big but plays big. He's hard on the puck. GP is going to be avg sized, above average speed, ridiculous skillset. AND he plays with decent aggression. He WANTS it. Exactly what we DON'T see from our 93's and 20's these days...
Anyway, wasn't taking issue with your assessment that someone who is top tier in size, speed and skill is a 1OA, just saying you can get bigger faster and more skilled by getting players with those things in varying combination.

 

[toNYRico]

They just need to get a coach with an actual system , and get rid of the players who refuse (93, 20)

Florida play a fast game, high pace game, and they are not full of speedsters by any means. They are not a great skating team. So I don’t want to hear that excuse.

Even when we were “good”, we played shitty hockey.

The lack system play is biting us now, and we can’t even score anymore. I don’t think we’re devoid of talent.

Agreed. I'd love a defensive tactician behind the bench. You think we could poach Jamie Kompon from Florida?

 

[McRanger92]

They just need to get a coach with an actual system , and get rid of the players who refuse (93, 20)

Florida play a fast game, high pace game, and they are not full of speedsters by any means. They are not a great skating team. So I don’t want to hear that excuse.

Even when we were “good”, we played shitty hockey.

The lack system play is biting us now, and we can’t even score anymore. I don’t think we’re devoid of talent.

Laviolette has been doing a Tom Renney impression this year. make no strategic adjustments, bench young players unfairly, etc. Where is torts when you need him?