Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIII

[Kovalev27]

Double post

 

[Kovalev27]

The Lundqvist decision will be a doozy. The young goaltenders are playing well. Hank turns 38 in March. The team is rebuilding and trending younger everyday.

this is the one that’s a real problem. You can’t trade Georgiev to accommodate a 38 year old goalie playing poorly with 1 year to go. Just would be really bad player management. Shesterkin is going to be on this team next season. But moving Georgiev who’s establishing himself as a really good goalie would be so stupid. Hanks gotta call it a career. Otherwise you’re going to see Shesterkin back in Russia next season and we burn a year. Would be a really bad look. I just don’t know what we do here.

 

[frozenrubber]

The thing with the Lundqvist decision is that it hinges on the idea that Georgiev and Shesterkin are both top goalies. That's pretty reasonable and likely imo. But, if they are, keeping them both isn't good asset management. So, the idea is to eat part of Hank's contract in order to put themselves in a situation where they still then need to move one of the young guys and then get a backup. The alternate is move one of the young guys, ride Hank as the backup for a single year and not have to have dead cap from him.

It's not an easy decision imo, and not just because of Hank being a franchise hero.

You wait to see what injuries happen to Stanley Cup contenders.

A Valvilesky/Rask/Grubauer/Fleury/Holtby/Bishop(if Dallas turns it around) blow out a knee, you trade Lundqvist w/ 50% retention and call it a day.

The 4.2M cap savings next year is enough of a return and anything else is professional courtesy for all he's done in Blue.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Trouba, DeAngelo, and Fox are looking like the best 3 defensemen on this team. Could maybe by the end of this season or next season be 3 first pairing d men.

If you’re talking about trading one for an equivalent young forward - I 100% get it. But I do not support the idea that ADA is “redundant” and basically must be dealt vs locked up long term.

Keep your best players unless you get a home run trade offer. If the cap is an issue I would rather cycle through LDs at <$1M before I got rid of an actual first pairing d man because his handedness is a bit inconvenient.

 

[I Eat Crow]

You have the "come to Jesus" talk with Lundqvist over the summer. Ask him one more time if he'll take a trade for the last year of his deal. That's option A.

Option B, suck up his cap hit next season and he retires with a nice cushy position within the Garden of Dreams foundation, with the unwritten agreement that he's the next goalie coach after Allaire retires.

Option C which is an extension after next season should not even be an option.

There should be a three way split with game time in the NHL next year. Hank gets 25-30 games, Shestyorkin about 20-25. Georgiev gets 25-30. Shesterkin is making Hartford look like child's play. He might even win the job outright in the next year or two from Hank and Georgiev.

 

[Fitzy]

A lot more historical NYR emotional baggage attached to the Lundqvist decision than the Staal decision.

Hank might be a top 3 player in NYR franchise history.

But Giacomin was dealt, Leetch was dealt. Detroit burned all of Gordie Howe's stuff when he came out of retirement. People forgive and forget.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Yeah as much as I like DeAngelo and what he brings to the table, I can't but help think that the Rangers would love nothing more than for him to have a huge year and wind up as a premium trade piece. A huge investment in Trouba and Fox having a very good debut and two more years on an ELC likely means Tony isn't in the long-term plans.

I don't think that necessarily means he's gone this summer, but if the Rangers do get him signed to a contract extension, I'd be surprised to see him play out the deal in NY.

I've been saying this for weeks. DeAngelo is our best trade piece for a center or just help at forward overall.

 

[Fitzy]

You have the "come to Jesus" talk with Lundqvist over the summer. Ask him one more time if he'll take a trade for the last year of his deal. That's option A.

Option B, suck up his cap hit next season and he retires with a nice cushy position within the Garden of Dreams foundation, with the unwritten agreement that he's the next goalie coach after Allaire retires.

Option C which is an extension after next season should not even be an option.

There should be a three way split with game time in the NHL next year. Hank gets 25-30 games, Shestyorkin about 20-25. Georgiev gets 25-30. Shesterkin is making Hartford look like child's play. He might even win the job outright in the next year or two from Hank and Georgiev.

Barring injuries this sort of thing would be completely unprecedented in NHL history, and probably would be a bad situation for all 3 goaltenders. So one gets in any sort of rhythm.

Just my opinion, not trying to be an asshole.

 

[I Eat Crow]

DeAngelo, to me, is the perfect candidate to be dealt to bolster our young talent at the forward position.

I would love to keep him- I feel I should add that. Having so much depth at RD moving forward would be great. But Brooks is right at least in that he leaves a lot to desire when defending, to the point where it is frustrating to watch sometimes. With someone who appears to be the NYR tru #1D for the next 6 years in Trouba, and a burgeoning Fox, that's already a lot of depth on the right side. 3rd pairing dmen are cheap and easy to find. Not many teams have a game breaker on their third pairing.

All the while we point out the lack of depth at young forward positions, especially secondary scoring. To build a team with as few weaknesses as possible the Rangers will need 3 decent scoring lines, even if we have some very solid players in Panarin and Zibanejad leading the charge.

What they should not under any circumstances do is deal DeAngelo for pennies on the dollar, and I hope they don't. But if you factor in contract disputes, age/contract/trade value factors, he really sticks out as the likely candidate to be moved for big returns if he has a big season.

Side note- this entire scenario changes if Fox or Trouba start to struggle, or if NYR switch one of the aforementioned right handed defenseman to the left side and they start to fit in in that role (God willing). In that case, let's move Skjei instead.

...and this. Thanks for the backup, guys.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Barring injuries this sort of thing would be completely unprecedented in NHL history, and probably would be a bad situation for all 3 goaltenders. So one gets in any sort of rhythm.

Just my opinion, not trying to be an *******.

I don't take it that way at all. Shesterkin is going to be at a point where he's going to be too good for the AHL. Something is going to have to give.

 

[Fitzy]

I don't take it that way at all. Shesterkin is going to be at a point where he's going to be too good for the AHL. Something is going to have to give.

I agree- and I think the likely outcome is a trade for one of the three goaltenders. The only question is which one.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I think the most likely outcome is a Georgiev trade. Hank and Shesty split next year.

 

[frozenrubber]

I agree- and I think the likely outcome is a trade for one of the three goaltenders. The only question is which one.

Lundqvist.

 

[Waivers]

Too much to choose from in this epic bad take

So much to choose from yet cannot elaborate on one single point - comical.

 

[I Eat Crow]

I think the most likely outcome is a Georgiev trade. Hank and Shesty split next year.

If the Rangers can get a 2nd rounder and a decent to good prospect for him, I think I'd do it. Young goalies with a couple of years of team control don't come on the market often, but when they do, they do come at a small premium.

Off the top of my head, Freddy Anderson got dealt to Toronto for a 30th overall pick

Martin Jones got dealt to SJ for a 14th overall pick (still don't understand this one, but whatever)

The precedent is there for the Rangers to get good value, but it's up to them to go that route. That said, what if Shesterkin stuggles even if he looks like the real deal now? I wouldn't deal Georgiev until I see Shesterkin in NHL action for at least 20-30 games.

 

[AlaBlueShirt]

Tuomo Ruutu flew from Europe to help Kaapo. Nice

 

[Fitzy]

Lundqvist.

He'd have to waive.

Alternatively, another possibility is that Henrik retires this offseason and goes to play in Frolunda. Don't see that as super likely though unless NYR threaten to keep him only as a scratch.

Henrik was excited about Trouba and Panarin. He seemed to genuinely think we'd be ready to be really good again this season. I dont think he's given up on another playoff run with NYR.

 

[Kovalev27]

You can’t split 3 goalies. It never works it’s a huge no no. That won’t happen.

but you do need 2 good goalies these days. And having Georgiev and Shesterkin at least now being so young Shesterkin’s is a huge advantage.

I don’t know how you get around hank next season. But you cannot trade Georgie.

 

[haohmaru]

this is the one that’s a real problem. You can’t trade Georgiev to accommodate a 38 year old goalie playing poorly with 1 year to go. Just would be really bad player management. Shesterkin is going to be on this team next season. But moving Georgiev who’s establishing himself as a really good goalie would be so stupid. Hanks gotta call it a career. Otherwise you’re going to see Shesterkin back in Russia next season and we burn a year. Would be a really bad look. I just don’t know what we do here.

Uh... what?

 

[Ken Lund]

Uh... what?

So Lundquist is better than average and Georgiev is worse, or am I reading that wrong?

 

[Leetch3]

the only way Tony D gets moved is if his contract demands are so high that we can't afford to keep his cap hit...he's not being moved to fill other gaps. maybe fast forward a few years and things could change but there is no one pushing for his spot to make him expendable right now

 

[Ola]

The advantage with TDA is that he plays with so much speed, he speeds up the play when he is out there. It’s hard to defend against that, even for the better defensive team.

I am also not sure he would fetch that much in a trade, the league is so conservative. 3rd team already, created news in juniors and all that.

I know many think it’s — extremely — tiresome that I keep repeating these things. But I think the key in this league is to get good production per the cost of a player. To get that you need to lock them up long term before their play peak. I think we had a golden opportunity to do that with TDA. But Gorton has just been totally inadequate at reading how these players will develop.

I think both Buch and TDA are history fairly soon. They will get good stats. The sums we have been, and still are, discussing about these guys are not even a fraction of what they will end up making in just a few years.

It’s just like with Hayes. Has Hayes really deserved a 4 year contract? Does Hayes really deserve 4-5m per? Facts are that his market value was 7 years and 7.15m per. Not saying that we should have kept him at that price, but it would of course have had a lot of value for other teams at his age if he had 3-4 years left at 4m pet instead of what he ended up getting.

 

[Anzi]

My takeaways from this is that both goalies have allowed more goals than xG. Lundqvist's 5v5 GSAA is pretty great so maybe that means that he's underperforming in man advantage situations? Lundqvist faces a ton more rebounds than Georgiev so that may explain part of why his xG is so high. It seems like Lundqvist is facing more dangerous shots but is doing a relatively good job at preventing them from becoming goals. The question is whether these high danger shots are caused by Lundqvist's rebound control or some other factors.

 

[SnowFort]

It’s a dilemma, for sure. Ideally, Georgiev and Shesterkin are the future tandem who battle it out for the starter job.

I think it’s stupid to trade Georgiev to make place for Lundqvist 1 more year. But at the same time, Hank has earned the right to play out his contract. Decisions, decisions...

 

[Alluckks]

The Lundqvist decision will be a doozy. The young goaltenders are playing well. Hank turns 38 in March. The team is rebuilding and trending younger everyday.

Georgiev seems to be building more this year and Shesty's performance in the AHL thus far speaks for itself. Lundqvist isn't stupid, but the man has a lot of pride. I wonder if he ends up somewhere else for a year or two. I'd actually hate to see the Rangers trade away one of their young goalies just to appease him. There has to be a graceful solution to this but I don't really see one that is clear and likely.