Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIII

[DutchShamrock]

Patience seems to be lacking here. Deals will be made when the right deal is available.

A lot of posters have said they are on board with this rebuild, and yet many still seem to not have understood what is going on here. It’s going to sound like I’m patting myself on the back, but, as one of the few posters who actually expected this team to be as bad as they are, I feel somewhat vindicated. I kept pointing out the deficiencies of this squad and why they would be this bad, and yet posters would say Henke won’t let them bottom out, and AV no longer being here will make them better, and that we should disregard the fact that from January 1 on last year, they had the worst record in the league. And, now that we’re here in this place, things need to happen. Some of us have been saying this is not going to be an easy process, and there is no guarantee it will work out in the end. And, while I’m one of the older posters on this board, I have been fully in favor of this approach. But one thing I have always noticed in my years of fandom is that most fans are an impatient bunch. Be it the opening night roster, the trade deadline or July 1, things need to happen yesterday. The McDonagh deal was supposed to be an immediate win, or Gorton got fleeced by Yzerman. Zuccarello needed to be traded at the deadline or Gorton blew it.

I know this rebuild is going to wear a lot of people down. But, truth is, we are still in the beginning phase of what is going to take place.

To jump on here, the large number of complaints about the roster set up is astounding. Outside of the Chytil on the 4th or the ADA stuff, why are people obsessing with the line juggling?

I view it as an extended camp, an evaluation of our pieces going forward. If Quinn experiments and loses a game, where is the problem? At least we see if someone meshes with elsewhere or they excel in a new spot. Maybe our tradable assets get going. But the complaining is about how our lines aren't gelling and the coach got his first guess wrong. Like time is slipping away on a cup run.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Hated the Day pick since we made it. There was nothing there except an old exceptional status and great skating. Such a waste.

We used a 3rd round pick on Day. How can you honestly hate it? The 3rd round is a shot in the dark either way. The Rangers took a chance on a kid who has all the tools.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

hole = size. nothing else.

kid is going to be point machine.

passing on him for anyone else in this draft would be suicide.

Size isn't even a concern for me.

He makes some really, really risky plays and ill advised decisions at times but those are aggressive, confident mistakes. Those can be ironed out with time (learning to pick his spots) and the reason he makes those decisions and other people don't is because they can't make this plays happen (and sometimes he does.)

Those are things that don't worry me in the slightest. Those things that the typical, vague "doesn't play a 200 ft game" criticisms. 99.99999% of kids that age don't.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

You think they care the other players?
Some of them are concerned about their next contract.

Quinn spends every practice screaming at them like they are 19 year college kids.

Quinn rips the team after the Chicago game and the Rangers come up with a worse performance against LA and their pop gun offense and back up goaltender.

When management sent out that letter last year the mood was miserable

Rangers management got nothing out of their drafts from 2012-2016 and those players should be in the NHL. The Rangers are rebuilding and they lack players from that age group. .

Of course they care about their teammates. Where is the evidence to the contrary? Some of them are likely also concerned about their contracts.

Is he REALLY screaming or are you exaggerating?

They had two bad games in a row. They also had several high effort outings and bounce back games all year too. Why only focus on the one time they had two stinkers?

Wait...didn't they tie it up late against LA and lose by a goal? Wasn't it a 1 goal game in the 3rd until the wheels fell off in chicago in what was indeed a single dreadful period of hockey? Idk. looks like your opinion is causing you to exaggerate negatives and ignore positives

The mood should've been miserable. They sucked. They had no fight, no cojones. They brought it on themselves along with that mongrel idiot AV.

The drafting really soured me from that period of time. I'm willing to let it slide considering the dearth of 1st and 2nd rounders + Buch, Duke and Igor all had significant value. I hear good things about Fogarty, Gettinger and Fontaine too. I love what they did the last two drafts overall.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

I just didn't think there was enough there to warrant it. Again it felt they were basing it largely off of something that happened when he was 15. He had fallen so far from then and for good reason. Yet people still wanted to prop him up over it. Perhaps hate is a strong word but I really just thought it was a waste.

I almost disliked it as much as Gropp. Perhaps there's still room for Gropp to develop into a useful pro player but pretty bad value for a 2nd IMO.

 

[Edge]

Hughes is a great prospect but it's hard to gauge USNDT success since they play a wide variety of competition. He's less proven than most 1OA picks.

Matthews was easier to see coming because he went over to Switzerland and kicked that league's teeth in at 17 years old.

We also should keep in mind that Hughes will be about 8 months younger than Matthews at the time of his draft.

In fact, Hughes would be the youngest first overall pick since MacKinnon back in 2013, as well as the fourth youngest this century behind MacK, Crosby, and Nash, and fourth youngest over the past 21 years.

For as great as he is, there's still a runway left.

 

[offdacrossbar]

the things jack hughes did as 16 yr old are beyond impressive.

consistent excellence matters.

 

[Edge]

Exactly. This kid is the real deal, and for what ever reason, this place is already downplaying his ability.

Had the spent the entire season with the U-18 team (which he did at 16) last year, he would have shattered that points record, by a bunch.

We should be collectively foaming at the mouth at the prospect of adding him to our team. Instead, we're already crapping on him and looking for glaring holes in his game (some holes do exist, but those are holes that exist with pretty much every single draft eligible player.)

There are some great young talents out there, but the gap between Hughes and Kakko is noticeable to many/most.

Then you start getting into the Dach, Cozens, etc. level. All great prospects. But yeah, no way there is only a "marginal" difference between them and Hughes.

That strikes me more as hedging than anything else. Becuase, I have to tell you, the differences are pretty obvious within 5 minutes.

 

[Vitto79]

Such a weird year cause I want them to win but losing is what’s best

It’s all just developing kids and waiting for all the trades for more futures

 

[Vitto79]

So is the plan to have Nieves as the4th line C when he’s ready and send Chytil down?

 

[Ghost of jas]

Of course they care about their teammates. Where is the evidence to the contrary? Some of them are likely also concerned about their contracts.

Is he REALLY screaming or are you exaggerating?

They had two bad games in a row. They also had several high effort outings and bounce back games all year too. Why only focus on the one time they had two stinkers?

Wait...didn't they tie it up late against LA and lose by a goal? Wasn't it a 1 goal game in the 3rd until the wheels fell off in chicago in what was indeed a single dreadful period of hockey? Idk. looks like your opinion is causing you to exaggerate negatives and ignore positives

The mood should've been miserable. They sucked. They had no fight, no cojones. They brought it on themselves along with that mongrel idiot AV.

The drafting really soured me from that period of time. I'm willing to let it slide considering the dearth of 1st and 2nd rounders + Buch, Duke and Igor all had significant value. I hear good things about Fogarty, Gettinger and Fontaine too. I love what they did the last two drafts overall.

They also got a top 4 Dman in the 2012 draft. For whatever warts he has, Skjei isn’t exactly ‘nothing ‘.

 

[GAGLine]

So is the plan to have Nieves as the4th line C when he’s ready and send Chytil down?

They've been pretty adamant about not sending Chytil down, despite his lack of production, so I doubt it. They could change their minds, obviously, but who knows when Nieves will be able to play again.

 

[Machinehead]

We also should keep in mind that Hughes will be about 8 months younger than Matthews at the time of his draft.

In fact, Hughes would be the youngest first overall pick since MacKinnon back in 2013, as well as the fourth youngest this century behind MacK, Crosby, and Nash, and fourth youngest over the past 21 years.

For as great as he is, there's still a runway left.

Don't get me wrong, I don't know if he's a can't miss top 10 player in the world like McDavid or Matthews, but I'd give blood to get him on this team.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Don't get me wrong, I don't know if he's a can't miss top 10 player in the world like McDavid or Matthews, but I'd give blood and pubic hair to get him on this team.

Fixed.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Fixed.

For the last time, MH is not pube guy.

Anything that he eats/gives will not be pube-ish.

 

[Edge]

Don't get me wrong, I don't know if he's a can't miss top 10 player in the world like McDavid or Matthews, but I'd give blood to get him on this team.

Personally, I don't think he's on the McDavid/Crosby level.

But I've believed for a while he's on that Matthews level. Very different players, with different styles. But I think he has the potential to be a top 10 NHL player.

There's a tendency to compare him to other top overall picks --- and that's understandable. I mention the age component because he is considerably younger than a lot of those other talents, on top of less physically developed at this point. As such, for as good of a prospect as he is now, I'm also looking at where he'll be a year from now, or two years from now.

He's never going to be a giant, but I don't see any reason why he won't be in the 5'11-6'0 range, and 185-190 pounds. I really don't think size will be an issue, especially because of the way he moves. It's not even so much about speed, he's one of the most slippery players I've ever seen and he plays with his head up.

 

[Inferno]

yes. kid is gifted

hes nearly 2ppg guy. thats just crazy. look at his numbers at any level. mind boggling really. and look at what hes done relative to his peers and other big names. hes surpassed nearly everyone and that includes names like kessel, keller, modano, mcdavid and stamkos. hes right there with some dude named mathews too. his production speaks for itself.

international play, ushl, usntdp. doesnt matter. kid has produced with elite skills. hes relaxed and precise with the ability to process the game in slow motion but has the special ability to play the game faster than others. hes probably more talented than anyone else in this draft. period.

hes my consensus #1 and it isnt even close. i like others but this kid has it all.

He's your consensus number 1 pick...? All the voices in your head agree?

Sorry had to bust your balls for that one.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

There are some great young talents out there, but the gap between Hughes and Kakko is noticeable to many/most.

Then you start getting into the Dach, Cozens, etc. level. All great prospects. But yeah, no way there is only a "marginal" difference between them and Hughes.

That strikes me more as hedging than anything else. Becuase, I have to tell you, the differences are pretty obvious within 5 minutes.

If it even takes 5 minutes.

And I like Kakko a bunch. The size/speed/sense combo with him is tantalizing and what hes doing in a mens league is very impressive.

I'd be happy with any of the guys that you mentioned above with a few more who weren't (Podkolzin especially, no one has the wow factor of this guy and that alone isn't reason to pick someone)

 

[offdacrossbar]

He's your consensus number 1 pick...? All the voices in your head agree?

Sorry had to bust your balls for that one.

for the most part yes they do

unless theres a secret riser in the WHL who plays defense, fights and has " enormous" potential, im sticking with this kid

 

[Ghost of jas]

For the last time, MH is not pube guy.

Anything that he eats/gives will not be pube-ish.

My bad. Joke withdrawn. Carry on.

 

[Machinehead]

Personally, I don't think he's on the McDavid/Crosby level.

But I've believed for a while he's on that Matthews level. Very different players, with different styles. But I think he has the potential to be a top 10 NHL player.

There's a tendency to compare him to other top overall picks --- and that's understandable. I mention the age component because he is considerably younger than a lot of those other talents, on top of less physically developed at this point. As such, for as good of a prospect as he is now, I'm also looking at where he'll be a year from now, or two years from now.

He's never going to be a giant, but I don't see any reason why he won't be in the 5'11-6'0 range, and 185-190 pounds. I really don't think size will be an issue, especially because of the way he moves. It's not even so much about speed, he's one of the most slippery players I've ever seen and he plays with his head up.

Matthews is a god, so that would be more than good enough.

But hell, I'll happily settle for Dach or even Newhook.

This is a really exciting draft.

 

[pld459666]

They all have different agendas.

For younger vets, that has to be expected as a byproduct of any rebuilding effort

 

[Gardner McKay]

I just didn't think there was enough there to warrant it. Again it felt they were basing it largely off of something that happened when he was 15. He had fallen so far from then and for good reason. Yet people still wanted to prop him up over it. Perhaps hate is a strong word but I really just thought it was a waste.

I almost disliked it as much as Gropp. Perhaps there's still room for Gropp to develop into a useful pro player but pretty bad value for a 2nd IMO.

Day is the type of kid that you use a 3rd rounder on all day. Boom/bust.

Hopefully next year we do the same thing. We will likely get a great player between 1-5. Use one or two other 1sts/2nds on safe upside picks and then go for the home run swings with 3rd round and on. Sometimes they work. Sometimes they don't.

Hopefully we get a 1st for Hayes, a 1st for Zucc and a 2nd for McQuaid. If Tampa wins the cup we have four 1st rounders. If they don't we have three 1sts and two 2nds.

Swing away Jeff and Gordie. Swing away.

 

[Machinehead]

Day is the type of kid that you use a 3rd rounder on all day. Boom/bust.

Hopefully next year we do the same thing. We will likely get a great player between 1-5. Use one or two other 1sts/2nds on safe upside picks and then go for the home run swings with 3rd round and on. Sometimes they work. Sometimes they don't.

Hopefully we get a 1st for Hayes, a 1st for Zucc and a 2nd for McQuaid. If Tampa wins the cup we have four 1st rounders. If they don't we have three 1sts and two 2nds.

Swing away Jeff and Gordie. Swing away.

I agree that you have to swing hard in the later rounds. What are you losing: a 10% chance at an NHL player?

There was nothing wrong with the Day pick.

If anything, the Rangers have been a solid team with late picks. We haven't really nailed the high picks and sometimes traded too many of them.

 

[Machinehead]

As late as the second round I would think you should have some idea of what a player projects to be.

After that, you're basically just taking your best guess and praying. You might as well take upside.

And yeah, there's scouts doing this and that's not to say they're completely blind or that they don't have an important job, but it's like hitting a baseball - even the best are going to miss most of the time.