Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XIII (Nanaki edition)

[Kocur Dill]

Umm it's a lot more to do with team culture and coaching than "acting." Maurice came in an drove a culture and has complete buy in from his core on day one. When you have horses that go 100 percent then the rest can't skip or they get left behind. Nyr constantly is looking for the bottom up approach to intensity and drive. This is part of why it hasn't worked here since messier left for Vancouver EXCEPT for that period that Torts was given the keys to cull out the deadwood and make like miserable for anyone that wasn't willing to commit to the team. His brand of hockey sucked bc the roster had no skill, but damn did that group of skill-less warriors make it easy to cheer for them in battles bc you never had to question their heart, passion, or determination. This organization needs a jackass back into it that will make the players lives miserable if they won't commit to team hockey and to each other. Those guys exist. One just got hired in Toronto. They have a short shelf life sometimes bc players get sick of working so hard as they get holder but coaches like Torts and Berube won't allow for the horseshit we are here.

Lavy came in talking to talk but he has proven to be gutless in maintaining accountability, and once players get a sniff of that then it's over and it's anarchy.

I wrote this awhile ago but it bears repeating. When lavy was fired in phili I think people forget that Bobby Clarke said a big part of the firing was that the training camp that years was the worst he had ever seen by a coach in his career. He wasn't talking about the players, he was talking about organization, structure, and accountability.

I ask this board, what are we all seeing lacking in this team right now...

I hate to utter these names out loud but...

Quenville and Babock are both out there.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

What are you talking about? If you have had a back injury to the extent that discs and vertebrate are coming up then you know that the next terms that come are fusions or disc replacement. It doesn't mean they are coming next week, but they are in the future. These injuries don't magically get better and a player making the issue public is a great way to scare other teams away from being willing to trade anything of value for the player. It's a GREAT strategic move by kreider and assuredly comes with advisement from his agent if he wants to stay in nyr

Ok why did you have to go and do this.

His issues (at least what he's dealing with right now) are different than what he had during camp. Just because Mollie Walker decided to do a little research and talk about different portions of the spine and you may or may not have done a quick google search and automatically assumed the worst doesn't mean that he's got a disc issue or anything - In fact the shifting nature of the issues (in this case, working it's self downwards) would lead one to believe that he was over compensating for one area that was bothering him and it just ended up jacking up something else rather than it being one isolated area that is severely (or even a bit) f***ed up IMO.

Source: I'm a PT so please spare me the usage of words that you don't understand.

Kreider himself said that they were "little annoying things." Unless he's lying to us, thats all they are. I don't think they're trading him anyway and have been pretty positive that they leaked his name as a way to light a fire under his ass. I hope it works.

Ok now I'm done

 

[Vitto79]

Kakko in a deal for the right player makes sense .

Ottawa stinks so target Batherson . They want to shake things up

They could use Trouba . Some teams would like his toughness but with retention

 

[NickyFotiu]

I hate to utter these names out loud but...

Quenville and Babock are both out there.

Quenville is a good coach but changing coaches isn't making this team in to a cup team. We gave it our best shot with these guys but their ceiling was limited and now its getting lower. Going to have to make changes.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Keep

Laf
Kakko
Othmann
Perrault
Fox
Schneider
Edstrom
Miller( i know, but too young and raw to let go imo)
Id put chytil here but he cant stay healthy

Everyone else is up for debate depending on the return imo.

Quenville is a good coach but changing coaches isn't making this team in to a cup team. We gave it our best shot with these guys but their ceiling was limited and now its getting lower. Going to have to make changes.

For whatever reason every coach that comes in here adopts the man to man coverage in our own end. Until that changes expect similar results.

 

[Fitzy]

Keep

Laf
Kakko
Othmann
Perrault
Fox
Schneider
Edstrom
Miller( i know, but too young and raw to let go imo)
Id put chytil here but he cant stay healthy

Everyone else is up for debate depending on the return imo.


For whatever reason every coach that comes in here adopts the man to man coverage in our own end. Until that changes expect similar results.

So your plan more or less isa soft rebuild around anyone we currently have 24 and under.

I actually don't hate it, if we fail this season, but I think it'll take 2-3 years to unload the veterans fully. That could be a long ass rebuild. I don't want to wait until 2030 to be competing again.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Keep

Laf
Kakko
Othmann
Perrault
Fox
Schneider
Edstrom
Miller( i know, but too young and raw to let go imo)
Id put chytil here but he cant stay healthy

Everyone else is up for debate depending on the return imo.


For whatever reason every coach that comes in here adopts the man to man coverage in our own end. Until that changes expect similar results.

I understand your thinking BUT its a matter of return. If a deal betters our team for sure nobody is off the table for me.

 

[will1066]

@mas0764 luxuriating in targeted keywords "rebuild" "24 and under" "young core" "useless vets" "assets" and "value" the past 72 hours

 

[Lion Hound]

Funny that some posters here think Mika and his contract are unmovable for lack of interested parties via trade.

The only thing immovable about it is the Clause. If Drury can manuevre around that, and get him to waive it, there will be places that will take him on. Teams love Centers. Some GM love reclamation projects. I don't even think he is a reclamation project yet. Just a player in some sort of a weird funk. Change in scenery could be just what the Dr ordered.

 

[TominNC]

The decision that should be made is long term so you want Trocheck or Mika as your 2c. To your point, actual 1c's are going to be paid 12m annually very soon. Not just the elite one, but even the ones to daylight as a 1c. I mean Chandler Stephenson just signed for 2m less per compared to Mika and Stephenson is basically a 2/3 tweener on any decent team. So who do you hitch to long term knowing your org has basically no center depth at all, Trocheck or Mika.

The only way Mika accepts is if it is to an absolute oasis of a location with tax benefits and those teams don't need or want him. The only one that might, MIGHT is Tampa if nyr retained bc Tampa is missing that shit from the left dot pp and I wonder if mika could go there and just fit in with all the pressure off of him. He could even go back to playing wing like stammer did. Would Tampa do it if nyr retained 2.5m or so? Who knows if either would have the guts to do it


The way you get Mika to accept a trade is bury him on the 4th line and take away his pp time. If he is going to suck in nyr then take away his cookies and make it miserable until he says get me out of here. Nyr won't do it though, they are all talk and no bite.

You pull that bullshit and you become less of a destination for good players.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

So your plan more or less isa soft rebuild around anyone we currently have 24 and under.

I actually don't hate it, if we fail this season, but I think it'll take 2-3 years to unload the veterans fully. That could be a long ass rebuild. I don't want to wait until 2030 to be competing again.

Not unloading everyone, my main ones would be zib, trouba and lindgren but I'd take calls on anyone not listed. For me it would be 3 or 4 roster moves. On the fly retool that keeps us in the hunt, I could add some lesser prospects and picks to achieve that

 

[bernmeister]

If you're not offering NMC's and NTC's to top free agents then you aren't signing any top free agents. It's really that simple unless you GROSSLY overpay and reap the cap consequences that come with that.

Name one, just one, top UFA going into his first year of free agency that signed a 5+ year deal without any NMC or NTC provisions in the last 15 years.

I'll wait.

just back from TDay and now back to the real world
somebody else can do that assignment, if they wish
whether or not Rs choose to do that, they don't have to capitulate to precedent, if that is the case

As to da bold,
the economics are on my side
let's use zib as a hypothetical
instead of max at 8.5 and full protections like he got,
say we did it my way 10 per 2 or so seasons at a clip no nmcs some ntcs

we would have overpaid 1.5m per and that would also have tightened cap
but obv
that would be way better than where we are now

and even if your premise is correct, which I do not concede
we are still better off w/o top free agents dictating terms to us

we are a world class stage w/legit chance to go for the cup even if most players are good w/a few great as opposed to any elite

 

[RangerBoy]

Lauzon has been terrible. Novak has been terrible since he signed the three year extension last spring. The Rangers were interested in renting him. Nashville has nothing worth trading for. Bloated contracts.

Nashville has three first round picks in June. Their pick. TB pick in the Jeannot trade. What an awful trade for TB. Jeaanot was a cap casualty to LA and was traded for much less than TB paid Nashville. Vegas pick from SJ in the Hertl trade and then Askarov trade.

 

[effen]

You pull that bullshit and you become less of a destination for good players.

I'm fine with not being a destination for players. Being a destination seems to get us country club nonsense.

Not being a destination hasn't hurt Calgary or Nashville or Boston from being mostly competitive to good for the last 20 years.

A team can be a destination any time it wants by offering the most money in Free Agency. Money is instant rizz.

 

[bernmeister]

Bern is Duguay confirmed.

he's a better player I am a better gm

So you assume we will receive nothing in return for Kreider, Lindgren, Shesterkin? Mika Trouba I’m sure it would cost us to move them

my post 4512

 

[bernmeister]

LOL, ok I can go along with a typical over-reacting Ranger fan fire sale. It's in our DNA to act like this.
Trade Kreider, trade Trouba, trade Miller, trade Lindgren, trade Igor, trade Trocheck, get Mika and Panarin to waive their NMC.

build around Cuylle-Kakko-Laf
get two pieces to play with Perrault. The pipe dream is probably be McDavid or Eichel via UFA, LW through trade (or Kaprizov or Connor LOL). Use a lot of the trade assets to get defense and a goalie. Schneider, Emery, Fortescue, Jones, Mancini all available if it's for an upgrade. Maybe give Garand some games so we can get a litmus reading on him. Maybe do a goalie tandem thing.
3rd line Othmann-X-Berard
4th line Edstrom-X-Chmelar
X = best of Skyora, Roobroeck, Laba, Lamb
Rempe = 13th forward, deploy when you need to lay the hurt down.
Upgrade the bottom 6 where applicable too.
Ok, bad to the reality of despair.

my post 4512

Novak, Lauzon and L'Heureux for Lindgren and Kakko?

no
again my post 4512

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Funny that some posters here think Mika and his contract are unmovable for lack of interested parties via trade.

The only thing immovable about it is the Clause. If Drury can manuevre around that, and get him to waive it, there will be places that will take him on. Teams love Centers. Some GM love reclamation projects. I don't even think he is a reclamation project yet. Just a player in some sort of a weird funk. Change in scenery could be just what the Dr ordered.

I agree to some extent but the term might also be an issue and more than that the teams willing to take him will more than likely be the same teams that are less desirable. Would take a “perfect fit” scenario, and that’s before even talking about assets coming back and how they fit the rangers org, etc. Definitely possible, but that’s a difficult trade to make.

 

[bernmeister]

Kakko in a deal for the right player makes sense .

Ottawa stinks so target Batherson . They want to shake things up

They could use Trouba . Some teams would like his toughness but with retention

no
and again solution is pos 4512

 

[DanielBrassard]

Lauzon has been terrible. Novak has been terrible since he signed the three year extension last spring. The Rangers were interested in renting him. Nashville has nothing worth trading for. Bloated contracts.

Nashville has three first round picks in June. Their pick. TB pick in the Jeannot trade. What an awful trade for TB. Jeaanot was a cap casualty to LA and was traded for much less than TB paid Nashville. Vegas pick from SJ in the Hertl trade and then Askarov trade.

Novak only has 4 points in 23 games but it seems he’s been having some bad luck, and the contract is manageable. I think he’d be worth looking at. Nashville has very little depth on RD, could Trouba be of interest to them? Perhaps the Rangers take back Schenn who has the same amount of term as Trouba.

 

[bernmeister]

You pull that bullshit and you become less of a destination for good players.

even if true, we only need to attract sufficient to supplement whoever we develop internally

we do not need to attract 18 skaters

 

[Mike in Houston]

Ron Duguay had a major trade proposal including our vet guys and Pitts. Neither team looks like a winner this year but it would give us a change for 2 years. Would you consider this? Would Pitt?

What a dummy.

 

[Tob]

Ron duguay has been going to the same health club as al trauwig

 

[Vitto79]

no
and again solution is pos 4512

Piece of what number ?
English Bern

happy holiday, here is imo best chance to get out from under current mess


Per my usual, best hope for at least 1 if not multiple cups = EXTEND the window
this means deal vets for youth, few exceptions notwithstanding.

The out of nowhere Zib meltdown has complicated things with great negative forces. Even a premium payment to remove him must be acceptably profitable to a trade partner and that is not readily visible other than gutting nyr to an intolerable degree.

Someone – and apologies I lost track of who – said maybe VAN b’c JT Miller is clashing w/Petterssen, and that could be enuf of an inducement for a basis, to not a straight 1 for 1. Of course, while JT remains productive, we are taking him back as is, and that is its own kettle of fish with both pros and cons, but in these circumstances I think it is worth the risk. If JT can feel good here, that is a resolution, and if not, I believe he is mature enuf we can work with him to relocate him to where he will be happy. VAN can hope that fellow Swedes Pet. + Zib can find the same frequency and keep it going. Mika at half means if it is a miss, they can extend another 2 or so per and move him down the road.

1. Rs-‘nucks
Zib max reduced 8.5 to 4.25 + Lindy 4.5 reduced to 2.25 + Jones + Quick + Vesey which is around 8 cap hit
for
JTM full pop at 8 per + Raty elc + Juulsen rfa-ufa expiring around 10m

this has just enuf to make it worthwhile for VAN
G Demko is listed as IR, so Quick is a welcomed stopgap
Quick has like 20 teams ntc and also must give permission
he understands this is just to help VAN cup run this year, he is welcomed back for next season, no matter what
Vesey is useful bottom 6 cog
Lindy is not worth much but Forbort is IR [tho not listed as inactive], so literally a stopgap

Rs get
Miller who is potentially resolution to zib problem + good scorer
Ratty = useful pivot depth
Juulsen is RD w/decent size, unfortunate injury history early on, but ok now and possibly next 1-2 yrs




2. Rs-Devs
had hoped to max retain on bread for Nemec and Silayev but not getting that vibe on the boards, maybe one or the other [for unretained bread] but not both

so, bread 11.6+ for
Nemec [recent 2OA] elc, +
cap dumps Palat [presumes he waives] 6 per x 3 + Haula 3.15 x 2 and Tatar 1.8 expiring ufa

So Jersey is deep at RD atm, so much so that nemec is in the A.
Palat and Haula are solid, but bread is special, and this gives them inside track to offer an extension and if so at what rate going forward. Obv he would help w/scoring.

For NY Nemec is useful flip [discussed below] and avoids discussion about extending salary. Palat, Haula, Tatar likely flipped


3. NYR-LAK
While surrender of Byfield is a major concession, Kings win this deal, but it is still a fit for Rs.

W/LA in on discussions, Shesty extended 12.2 x 5, no NMC, limited ntc, which as an extension kicks in next season. Rs eat 2m per beginning this season and continuing.
Add KAM rfa - new deal after this season
add Nemec elc

Now there is too much on the plate for Kings to refuse. Obv Byfield is heir to Kopitar and now that has to have plan b alternate, but Ks still have good pivot depth and too many issues solved by this to decline.

The above 3 for Byfield

NOTE: with this trade now, Shesty’s value is not 12.2 - 2, but current 5.6 -2 = 3.6, so add KAM + Nemec elc it is ballpark to Byfield’s #.
We can take back Rittich 1m expiring ufa if they don’t prefer to sell him elsewhere


4. Rs - Ds
Haula, Tatar, Robertson
for
Dumoulin and Helleson

rationale: Ducks looking for F support, are good at pivot regardless of Zegras and Huala by now = good option to upgrade, phase out Strome, get something selling him now. Tatar is just a try me F, Robertson a prospect not properly developed w/good size, etc. Helleson has shown signs but is far enough down they can let him go. Dumoulin would be a small wince but worth it.


if retention is nec Trouba will have to wait til Lindgren’s retention is finished. Otherwise if he wants now, he can go now. (LI?)
If not he can be emergency 3RD an do 4RW balance of this campaign
____________

So what does all this leave us?

Kreider - Byfield - Miller
LaF - Tro - Palat [stopgap for Gabe P]
Cuylle - Chytil/Brodz - Kakko
Eds - Brodz/Rempe -Rempe/Trouba

Raty, Carrick + Smith = forward depth

Fox - Schneider
Dumoulin - Mancini
__________ - Juulsen/Helleson

usual suspects for LD depth: Scanlin/Harpur/Mackey/Ruhwedel
Rasmus Larsson and Hank Kempf may be close enuf for cup of coffee if available

Broberg on LTIR
after the above, possible buy now w/St. Louis for acceptable assets (Sykora +) and add late in the yr?

Now I get it . You’re thinking too much though

 

[Kocur Dill]

Quenville is a good coach but changing coaches isn't making this team in to a cup team. We gave it our best shot with these guys but their ceiling was limited and now its getting lower. Going to have to make changes.

I just want to make life miserable for the ones that dont tow the line and relinquish their clauses, begging to be traded.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

The roster needs to change for sure but firing Lav would be a huge win