Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XIII (Nanaki edition)

[SnowblindNYR]

Because these stats are mostly fugazi. Did anyone need the blue and red charts to tell you all 5 of those guys have been horribad this year?

I'll be honest. I respect the xGF% stats not really these that @Machinehead posted. It's some black box of stats that no one know how they get it and they try to assign responsibility for the good and bad to players on a line or D pairing. And I can't help but think a big portion of the responsibility being assigned is based on reputation.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Because these stats are mostly fugazi. Did anyone need the blue and red charts to tell you all 5 of those guys have been horribad this year?

I think the point is to fix the guys who are bad and not touch the one who isn’t?

 

[Machinehead]

Don't they go hand in hand? I mean talent can only get you so far...But I'm also not saying we have enough talent. Clearly we don't on defense.

They probably do but you have to be able to play NHL-level hockey before you can even assess the second problem.

And it's kind of null anyway because the biggest offenders accused of not working hard are also the worst players, so yeah, get rid of them anyway.

The only one I'll defend is Fox. If he puts up metrics like that, I literally don't care if he's trying hard.

 

[Machinehead]

I'll be honest. I respect the xGF% stats not really these that @Machinehead posted. It's some black box of stats that no one know how they get it and they try to assign responsibility for the good and bad to players on a line or D pairing. And I can't help but think a big portion of the responsibility being assigned is based on reputation.

You watch the games.

Which one's wrong?

 

[McRanger92]

No, but perhaps our coach & GM do.

Honestly seems that way

 

[Boris Zubov]

They probably do but you have to be able to play NHL-level hockey before you can even assess the second problem.

And it's kind of null anyway because the biggest offenders accused of not working hard are also the worst players, so yeah, get rid of them anyway.

The only one I'll defend is Fox. If he puts up metrics like that, I literally don't care if he's trying hard.

LOL at the bolded. Fair enough.

 

[LokiDog]

Because these stats are mostly fugazi. Did anyone need the blue and red charts to tell you all 5 of those guys have been horribad this year?

Seriously. The rules say you cannot disparage others’ religions on HF.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

aside from the obvious, Trouba is out here posting decent offensive numbers eh?

 

[GAGLine]

There's little to no chance that any of Igor, Panarin, Kreider, Zib, Trouba or Lindgren are getting traded between now and the trade deadline.

Barring a massive collapse, we are going to make the playoffs. The only team in the east ahead of us that we can't pass based on games in hand is Carolina. Most of the teams behind us are mediocre or flat out bad.

As long as we are in a playoff spot, we aren't going to dismantle the team. Major moves could come this summer, especially if the cap jumps up to 97 mil, but I doubt Panarin or Zib are going anywhere. Zib's contract will be very hard to move, and I don't think the team has any desire to move Panarin, even though doing so could help set the team up very well for the future.

Igor is our biggest issue. This team, as currently constructed, can't win without him. More than likely, Drury will end up paying whatever Igor wants. If Drury can't come to an agreement with him, then he'll probably just walk in the summer, and we'll get nothing for him.

 

[McRanger92]

I think the point is to fix the guys who are bad and not touch the one who isn’t?

I sad Fox has been lazy and soft, not that I want him gone.

 

[Machinehead]

Because these stats are mostly fugazi. Did anyone need the blue and red charts to tell you all 5 of those guys have been horribad this year?

These comments are always weird to me.

Like, you agree with all five, you just...don't like the idea of it?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

You watch the games.

Which one's wrong?

I don't think that Miller has been worse than Lindgren overall. If you can't explain how these stats are compiled they're useless.

 

[McRanger92]

There's little to no chance that any of Igor, Panarin, Kreider, Zib, Trouba or Lindgren are getting traded between now and the trade deadline.

Barring a massive collapse, we are going to make the playoffs. The only team in the east ahead of us that we can't pass based on games in hand is Carolina. Most of the teams behind us are mediocre or flat out bad.

As long as we are in a playoff spot, we aren't going to dismantle the team. Major moves could come this summer, especially if the cap jumps up to 97 mil, but I doubt Panarin or Zib are going anywhere. Zib's contract will be very hard to move, and I don't think the team has any desire to move Panarin, even though doing so could help set the team up very well for the future.

Igor is our biggest issue. This team, as currently constructed, can't win without him. More than likely, Drury will end up paying whatever Igor wants. If Drury can't come to an agreement with him, then he'll probably just walk in the summer, and we'll get nothing for him.

Complete waste of a season to ride it out with these players. That's not acceptable to me. This will be a repeat of 2015-16 or 22-23.

 

[Machinehead]

I don't think that Miller has been worse than Lindgren overall. If you can't explain how these stats are compiled they're useless.

They're complied using all the basic shit. Shots, goals, expected goals.

Miller is -3 at 5v5. Fox is +6.

When Miller isn't with Fox, the Rangers are getting dunked on.

It couldn't be a simpler explanation.

 

[McRanger92]

These comments are always weird to me.

Like, you agree with all five, you just...don't like the idea of it?

It's not telling me anything I didn't already deduce with my eyes. Just like Fox's blue chart is all well and good but I see him get beat on the forecheck and turn pucks over forcing passes way too much to blindly act like hes having a great year.

 

[Machinehead]

It's not telling me anything I didn't already deduce with my eyes. Just like Fox's blue chart is all well and good but I see him get beat on the forecheck and turn pucks over forcing passes way too much to blindly act like hes having a great year.

That's the problem with the eye test. You're going to see every player play bad.

 

[17futurecap]

They're complied using all the basic shit. Shots, goals, expected goals.

Miller is -3 at 5v5. Fox is +6.

When Miller isn't with Fox, the Rangers are getting dunked on.

It couldn't be a simpler explanation.

77 minutes together Miller and Trouba were on the ice for 7 goals allowed and none for is amazing.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

They're complied using all the basic shit. Shots, goals, expected goals.

Miller is -3 at 5v5. Fox is +6.

When Miller isn't with Fox, the Rangers are getting dunked on.

It couldn't be a simpler explanation.

Ok, now compare that to Lindgren who gets dunked on even when he's with Fox.

 

[Machinehead]

77 minutes together Miller and Trouba were on the ice for 7 goals allowed and none for is amazing.

Right, and I'm sorry, this is where I get into "I don't care" territory.

Ok, you saw Fox turn the puck over. That's fine and dandy.

X's and O's explain results, they don't supersede results.

Fox is +6 with a partner who is an unsupervised child with scissors when Fox isn't with him.

Ok, now compare that to Lindgren who gets dunked on even when he's with Fox.

Lindgren is even at 5v5. 9 for, 9 against. Miller has been much worse.

I feel like your reaction is based on the fact that people have been beating the drum on Lindgren for at least a year, while playing "wait and see" with Miller.

Wait and see is coming to an end for me. Miller is one of the biggest offenders at this point. It's not "those two" anymore, it's "those three."

That drum is going to start getting beat now. Welcome to my concert.

 

[Kocur Dill]

One thing I sometimes find interesting is that there are guys (not saying Berard is or isn’t one, it’s impossible to know yet) who essentially do better the higher level they play at, either because their energy and tenacity is best suited for the highest level or because they have an extremely complimentary skill set where playing with B talent doesn’t bring out the best in them. I’d be less inclined to believe this is a true phenomenon and players like this exist if it wasn’t also true that there are players who can be above point per game in the AHL and make an entire career playing there but can never even hold down an NHL job, let alone be a 40 point player. Somehow, some guys just work in specific situations. Berard definitely has the motor to be a guy who can hitch his wagon to two NHL players and just be a retrieval and energy guy and have a positive impact. Will he be? I don’t know. But I do think he’s a good choice for a cup of coffee right now.

In that regard, he kind of reminds me of DeBrusk. Boston fans always wanted him to be a line leader PF, but his best work is being a useful tool for a guy that is a line leader and has the tools to utilize DeBrusks talents.

I hope Berard is a catylist type, but realistic expectations should be happy if hes the latter.

Line driving PF are a rare commodity thats why everyone goes bananas for them. But support PFs have a place too, it just depends more on chemestry and luck of avaialble roster players. In the no cap era you could deal guys easier to match abilities. Today there is a little more, whats available, and do i and my counterpart have a match we can live with and afford.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Complete waste of a season to ride it out with these players. That's not acceptable to me. This will be a repeat of 2015-16 or 22-23.

At least you know to set your expectations very low.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Right, and I'm sorry, this is where I get into "I don't care" territory.

Ok, you saw Fox turn the puck over. That's fine and dandy.

X's and O's explain results, they don't supersede results.

Fox is +6 with a partner who is an unsupervised child with scissors when Fox isn't with him.

Lindgren is even at 5v5. 9 for, 9 against. Miller has been much worse.

I feel like your reaction is based on the fact that people have been beating the drum on Lindgren for at least a year, while playing "wait and see" with Miller.

Wait and see is coming to an end for me. Miller is one of the biggest offenders at this point. It's not "those two" anymore, it's "those three."

That drum is going to start getting beat now. Welcome to my concert.

Miller was fine before Lindgren entered the top 6. I know we played bad teams but before Lindgren entered the lineup our D was good and was driving offense.

 

[TominNC]

this goes too far. there are good players with verve and charisma on this team. team just playing dogshit hockey right now.

Yeah, he just made the list.

 

[McRanger92]

That's the problem with the eye test. You're going to see every player play bad.

That's not true. The Rangers are a talented and contending team held back by low effort and 3 terrible defenseman, one of which (Miller) i've been saying is wildly overrated for years. I dont even know what his analytics are in his career, I just know hes not very good. 99 times out of 100 the charts are just confirming what we watch. Its a good tool, not an orthodoxy to be followed.

 

[RangerBoy]

Rempe