Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XIII (Nanaki edition)

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Lel

 

[NickyFotiu]

Kreider is not good at 5on 5. He just isnt. He is good off the rush but thats about it.

He is great at pk, and net front. But for me 5on5 is more important.

I would even go as far as saying trading him and smith and replacing them with berard and othmann the tram wouldn't miss a beat.

I think you may have gone a bit too far there. If that was the case those guys would likely already be up. CK is a legit 35-40 goal scorer. They do not grow on trees.

 

[duhmetreE]

Interesting theory, but how would that be tracked? Possession time between the hash marks perhaps?

Maybe it can be extrapolated from current analytics... but mostly from the eye.

The major issue I have with analytics, is that it doesn't convert for deep playoff competition imo. It’s not a 1:1 comparison

 

[mike14]

Having just perused hockey-reference and stumbled across this, I feel that we are honor bound to begin referring to CK as BJNP from now on

 

[Lion Hound]

Funny how #20 is perceived here. Going back prior to him getting his current contract. There was so much banter about him. Some posters here hated him.

He has gone on to have an amazing carrier as a NY Ranger. Currently chasing down all time goal scoring records for the organization.

Fast forward to the now. Not scoring at the same pace, line producing at the same clip. For some members here all of a sudden #20 is at negative value. The age old, your only as good as your last game mentality rears it’s ugly head again.

The hard truth is “IF” the Rangers decided to make Keider available, GM’s will F’n line up to get him and the offers will be steep. I don’t think it will get to that. I think the more likely scenario is he will start to pop a few goals, and find his extra gear and get some love around here again.

 

[mike14]

Funny how #20 is perceived here. Going back prior to him getting his current contract. There was so much banter about him. Some posters here hated him.

He has gone on to have an amazing carrier as a NY Ranger. Currently chasing down all time goal scoring records for the organization.

Fast forward to the now. Not scoring at the same pace, line producing at the same clip. For some members here all of a sudden #20 is at negative value. The age old, your only as good as your last game mentality rears it’s ugly head again.

The hard truth is “IF” the Rangers decided to make Keider available, GM’s will F’n line up to get him and the offers will be steep. I don’t think it will get to that. I think the more likely scenario is he will start to pop a few goals, and find his extra gear and get some love around here again.

I think that's the point. The overwhelming consensus is that CK (BJNP) has been a great Ranger and will probably be a good player for a little while yet. The question is whether this group can win a Cup while he's here, or are we better off getting haul that his trade should bring, seeing if there's a different look that can be provided in his place (not a CK replacement, just something different) and whether his cap space can also help reshape the team moving forward?

The fact is that we haven't been able to get over the hump with Kreider at his peak (not his fault by any stretch) so do you persist with him in a complimentary role, or look at a different way of doing things? It also wouldn't surprise me hat if we were to trade him, he'd have his Cup almost immediately

 

[UnparalledPark]

He is on pace for 40 pts. No way he hits 60 this year. maybe 50. Especially since this team never gets PPs anymore.

And he is awful 5on5. I get the sentimental aspect for some people. But he is not an all-star. Far from it at this point.

And i wouldnt trade him just to trade him. I would want a 1st and a top prospect or youngish LD (like 26ish) that can play top 4.

And i dont think that is far fetched to get either.

All depends on who he has on his NtC. Maybe u can get a Detroit, ottawa, buffalo to massively overpay as they are desperate to make playoffs.

We still are a playoff team without him, and are just as likely to lose in the first or second round with or without him.

He’s also on pace for 40 goals. Rare air.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Kreider chasing the all time goal record is more of an indication of how pathetic this original 6 organization has been more than anything else.

 

[UnparalledPark]

Agreed, but in the summer if there is a money decision between Kreider and a younger player like Cuylle/Kakko he's the odd man out.

Cuylle yes. Kakko no.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Sigh, I remember a Krieder deal on the table with Dallas - Robertson and a 1st. We missed the trade Krieder window, he’s our huckleberry forever.

 

[RangerBoy]

If the Rangers flame out again this spring, nothing should be off the table. The salary cap should see a significant increase if the NHL and PA can agree to a new CBA before June. $97M cap. There should be money in the system to move players. The Rangers are a stale group. Something needs to change. What move(s) will Drury make at the trade deadline to change the fortunes of the club? Drury will empty the remaining draft pick capital pool for some mid-level players who will not make any difference at all. Spending more bad money to fix the same problems. EF discussed the Rangers issues on 32T on Friday. He will probably bring up the Rangers again on 32T tomorrow morning.

Jeff Marek will start his new show next Monday. I miss Marek's daily show.

 

[mas0764]

Funny how #20 is perceived here. Going back prior to him getting his current contract. There was so much banter about him. Some posters here hated him.

He has gone on to have an amazing carrier as a NY Ranger. Currently chasing down all time goal scoring records for the organization.

Fast forward to the now. Not scoring at the same pace, line producing at the same clip. For some members here all of a sudden #20 is at negative value. The age old, your only as good as your last game mentality rears it’s ugly head again.

The hard truth is “IF” the Rangers decided to make Keider available, GM’s will F’n line up to get him and the offers will be steep. I don’t think it will get to that. I think the more likely scenario is he will start to pop a few goals, and find his extra gear and get some love around here again.

If GMs are making steep offers for Kreider that include future top 6 young centers or first pair defenders we should trade him no matter what.

If the Rangers flame out again this spring, nothing should be off the table. The salary cap should see a significant increase if the NHL and PA can agree to a new CBA before June. $97M cap. There should be money in the system to move players. The Rangers are a stale group. Something needs to change. What move(s) will Drury make at the trade deadline to change the fortunes of the club? Drury will empty the remaining draft pick capital pool for some mid-level players who will not make any difference at all. Spending more bad money to fix the same problems. EF discussed the Rangers issues on 32T on Friday. He will probably bring up the Rangers again on 32T tomorrow morning.

Jeff Marek will start his new show next Monday. I miss Marek's daily show.

Gee, it’s almost like the Rangers were never good enough and topped out exactly where many said they’d top out and that instead of playing for conference finals appearances they should have kept their rebuild going longer.

 

[RGY]

I certainly don’t think the world is ending as many fans are overreacting with after these past two losses and overall play on the season. This team is making the playoffs. But they certainly need a shake up. We need Lavy to be tougher on these guys. We dont need him to be there friend or a shill. We need real coaching. These guys need accountability with a kick in the ass. Last night’s play was simply unacceptable. Trouba was atrocious. Absolutely atrocious. But he isn’t going anywhere this year and they wont scratch him. He needs to be on the 3rd pair with reduced minutes. So with that said Lindgren has to go. They should roll with Jones and Mancini until the deadline, if possible, then add a defenseman who is mobile, can play defense, and move the puck to transition up ice.

But until then Lavy needs to be willing to make the bold moves for accountability otherwise he is just fostering and perpetuating the same accepting mediocrity from these guys. The team has clearly shown they know how to get to the playoffs and go deep. And that may be mostly on the backs of the goalies, but nonetheless, they have made it happen 2 out of the last three years. Time to do the right things to take the extra step, which will hurt some feelings.

 

[Vitto79]

Time to get creative with a trade ?

I could see it just not sure what it looks like lol

 

[bernmeister]

interesting tidbit from Yardbarker:

Do Trevor Zegras' recent comments hint at trade from Ducks?

With Zegras’ name already in the rumor mill, could the fact he’s not playing where he wants to be playing suggest he is looking for a fresh start?

www.yardbarker.com

Like I said before, something around
KAM + Othmann + like Sykora + BMB + Vesey
for
Zegras + Vatrano

if possible add Helleson for prospect D not named Fortescue, Emery


eff Zib, if we haven't moved
he can either do 1RW, MAYBE, or 4th line, but Kreider-Zegras-Vatrano gives a first line while our mid 6 continue to kick it, and the 4th asserts itself w/Rempe

 

[bhamill]

interesting tidbit from Yardbarker:

Do Trevor Zegras' recent comments hint at trade from Ducks?

With Zegras’ name already in the rumor mill, could the fact he’s not playing where he wants to be playing suggest he is looking for a fresh start?

www.yardbarker.com

Like I said before, something around
KAM + Othmann + like Sykora + BMB + Vesey
for
Zegras + Vatrano

if possible add Helleson for prospect D not named Fortescue, Emery


eff Zib, if we haven't moved
he can either do 1RW, MAYBE, or 4th line, but Kreider-Zegras-Vatrano gives a first line while our mid 6 continue to kick it, and the 4th asserts itself w/Rempe

IMO that’s too much for a tanking prospect and an aging vet. I would not do KAM for Zegras straight up. Zegras has been playing like hammered dogshit this season and last. The funny part of that article was Zegras saying he like s center because playing defense gets him into the game… what defense? Sure, he has upside and if we can get hm ON THE CHEAP we should do it, but f*** Vatrano, IMO. We have forwards in Hartford I’d rather give a chance.

 

[bernmeister]

If GMs are making steep offers for Kreider that include future top 6 young centers or first pair defenders we should trade him no matter what.
.............

stop trading Kreider
those level offers are unlikely

I certainly don’t think the world is ending as many fans are overreacting with after these past two losses and overall play on the season. This team is making the playoffs. But they certainly need a shake up. We need Lavy to be tougher on these guys. We dont need him to be there friend or a shill. We need real coaching. These guys need accountability with a kick in the ass. Last night’s play was simply unacceptable. Trouba was atrocious. Absolutely atrocious. But he isn’t going anywhere this year and they wont scratch him. He needs to be on the 3rd pair with reduced minutes. So with that said Lindgren has to go. They should roll with Jones and Mancini until the deadline, if possible, then add a defenseman who is mobile, can play defense, and move the puck to transition up ice.

But until then Lavy needs to be willing to make the bold moves for accountability otherwise he is just fostering and perpetuating the same accepting mediocrity from these guys. The team has clearly shown they know how to get to the playoffs and go deep. And that may be mostly on the backs of the goalies, but nonetheless, they have made it happen 2 out of the last three years. Time to do the right things to take the extra step, which will hurt some feelings.

strong general agree, except w/Trouba:
1) Isles are thin on D due to injury
he might waive now if LI is close enuf
if not then consider him 4RW and only emergency depth D = easier def skating

2) Admit it
bern was/has been/is usually right about Rs
we should not have gone heavy win now rental, and it is coming back to bite in the ass
Lindy should have been moved years ago
package w/a 5th for a 7th and be grateful for the roster slot and cap relief

The prob is not Kreider, it is Zib
Moving Zib will require he understand he WILL sit, or WILL play WHERE HE IS EFFIN TOLD, whether he likes it or not
he has to understand
Rs will listen to bern, like it or not
no nmc removal, Shesty goes
Zib has to understand the old gang of vets WILL be broken up

the club exists for the fans who support it, not the players

AGAIN, LISTEN TO BERN
no more NMCs -- only acceptable level ntcs -- to anyone, period

"Oh, but then we don't compete w/...."
I don't give a flying or standing fug
either capitulate to that item
or we take the next guy on the list
even if that means having to pay more per yr for shorter term deal and no nmcs

--------------

Swayman incredibly forgot how to play G!!!!!!!!!
Zib + Shesty
for
Swayman + Pinto !!!!!!!!!!!!

oh, wait; history...

 

[bernmeister]

IMO that’s too much for a tanking prospect and an aging vet. I would not do KAM for Zegras straight up. Zegras has been playing like hammered dogshit this season and last. The funny part of that article was Zegras saying he like s center because playing defense gets him into the game… what defense? Sure, he has upside and if we can get hm ON THE CHEAP we should do it, but f*** Vatrano, IMO. We have forwards in Hartford I’d rather give a chance.

In a vacuum, I would prefer to agree w/you.
Howev, pt of this deal is to create solution for Zib NOW
this does that
and helps put in motion to push Zib about the door sooner than later
THAT, big picture, IS worth it

yes, there is risk on adding him, but guy trains w/kreider, believe he can skate well enuf, + create offensively
for yrs has been thought he wanted to return east
suggests he would be fully motivated

 

[haohmaru]

Gee, it’s almost like the Rangers were never good enough and topped out exactly where many said they’d top out and that instead of playing for conference finals appearances they should have kept their rebuild going longer.

Gee, it's also like 97% percent of teams fail every year and aren't good enough.

The above is no guarantee that the Rangers would be any better than they are now. Ottawa, Buffalo, Detroit, AZ/UT, Anaheim, etc... have been "rebuilding longer" and have worse results, nay, much worse results than the Rangers.

The Rangers had how many firsts in 4 years? EIGHT. 1OA, 2OA, 7OA, 9OA, etc...

If Fox is healthy and Chytil is 100%, do the Rangers have a better shot against the Panthers last year? For sure.

 

[bhamill]

In a vacuum, I would prefer to agree w/you.
Howev, pt of this deal is to create solution for Zib NOW
this does that
and helps put in motion to push Zib about the door sooner than later
THAT, big picture, IS worth it

yes, there is risk on adding him, but guy trains w/kreider, believe he can skate well enuf, + create offensively
for yrs has been thought he wanted to return east
suggests he would be fully motivated

I guess the big difference we have is I don’t think there IS a solution for Zibs. Except Zibs himself and I doubt he turns it around. Play him like our 3rd best center that he is, eat the cap, and carry on.
All good though.

 

[Boris Zubov]

If the Rangers flame out again this spring, nothing should be off the table. The salary cap should see a significant increase if the NHL and PA can agree to a new CBA before June. $97M cap. There should be money in the system to move players. The Rangers are a stale group. Something needs to change. What move(s) will Drury make at the trade deadline to change the fortunes of the club? Drury will empty the remaining draft pick capital pool for some mid-level players who will not make any difference at all. Spending more bad money to fix the same problems. EF discussed the Rangers issues on 32T on Friday. He will probably bring up the Rangers again on 32T tomorrow morning.

Jeff Marek will start his new show next Monday. I miss Marek's daily show.

Why wait til the off-season or the deadline...This team needs a shake up now.

 

[MrAlmost]

stop trading Kreider
those level offers are unlikely


strong general agree, except w/Trouba:
1) Isles are thin on D due to injury
he might waive now if LI is close enuf
if not then consider him 4RW and only emergency depth D = easier def skating

2) Admit it
bern was/has been/is usually right about Rs
we should not have gone heavy win now rental, and it is coming back to bite in the ass
Lindy should have been moved years ago
package w/a 5th for a 7th and be grateful for the roster slot and cap relief

The prob is not Kreider, it is Zib
Moving Zib will require he understand he WILL sit, or WILL play WHERE HE IS EFFIN TOLD, whether he likes it or not
he has to understand
Rs will listen to bern, like it or not
no nmc removal, Shesty goes
Zib has to understand the old gang of vets WILL be broken up

the club exists for the fans who support it, not the players

AGAIN, LISTEN TO BERN
no more NMCs -- only acceptable level ntcs -- to anyone, period

"Oh, but then we don't compete w/...."
I don't give a flying or standing fug
either capitulate to that item
or we take the next guy on the list
even if that means having to pay more per yr for shorter term deal and no nmcs

--------------

Swayman incredibly forgot how to play G!!!!!!!!!
Zib + Shesty
for
Swayman + Pinto !!!!!!!!!!!!

oh, wait; history...

So we trade Zib and Igor into the aether and Boston gives us Swayman and Ottawa gives us Pinto? Haha

Igor+Lindgren+whatever else
For
Ullmark and Tkachuk

 

[bernmeister]

So we trade Zib and Igor into the aether and Boston gives us Swayman and Ottawa gives us Pinto? Haha

Igor+Lindgren+whatever else
For
Ullmark and Tkachuk

I admit brain fart my end
Swayman is w/Bs, I obv meant Ulmark on Sens

we are not doing stupid win now unlimited over pay of "whatever else"
for Tka
who is good but overrated

also Lindgren not that much value

til tom peeps

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I’d say it’s time to cuff Laviolette and that may be the right move at the end of the season but the vet core and the GM can’t survive this either.

 

[LeetchisGod]

The writing is on the wall that this core is finished. Drury is going to have to find a way to start offloading these veterans.