Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XIII (Nanaki edition)

[leetch99]

How long is left on Dreary GM deal or whatever his title is ....or can he can himself and hire a new GM to make it look like he is doing something ? Is it just Dolan after them.....would be hard to fire Dolan . It will be a long time before we have this good a goalie and a nucleus of good young kids again . I don't think Drury is capable of it . Who would be a good solid forward thinking GM these days ?

 

[noncents]

the reason the rangers record is what it is, is because of 2 guys: Igor and Quick

A hockey team is a delicate ecosystem. even a small change to the margin of a roster can precipitate significant rippling effects in quality and consistency of play - in either direction. you see it all the time.

this team is made up of hockey players who have been on great teams together, as recently as last year. Maybe they've never been the puck possessing, in your face, skill speed and grit powerhouse we all hope for, but they have been a team that has found a way to win when the chips are down and the game is tight.

That's not how they're playing this year. We can all see it. There's a listlessness, a lack of commitment, at the top of the lineup, and there is a lack of ability on the back end. There also seems to be a tactical/structural mismatch. My X's and o's aren't sophisticated enough to diagnose but the Dzone coverage system is not working, pretty much up and down the roster.

But the primary issue is commitment. Hockey is a game of chaos and the margins are so thin that a lack of belief and work rate leads to domination pretty much by any team in the league. This team does not want to play the right way, and the results show it.

But don't tell me they're not a good team. Don't tell me the forwards aren't talented enough. With Chytil Cuylle and Kakko, this is as deep a top 9 as I've seen from a talent perspective in years.

So i agree there needs to be a change, but I think you'd all be surprised by how much the *right* change can inspire the team as a whole to play better hockey. To fight for every inch. I don't think these guys are incapable of playing like that- not Zib. Not Fox. Not Bread. They can dig at that level, they just haven't done so.

In some ways, it's more depressing that the teams flaw isn't talent. It'd be easier to stomach that way. But I don't think they're as far away as they look right now, and I'm not willing to give up on the season.

Just find a LHD, and make the right change up front. maybe it's Bjugstad. Maybe it's Crouse. Maybe it's just elevating Cuylle or bringing up Berard. They need someone other than Trocheck in the top 6 to drag them into the fight every f***ing shift. This team has the raw materials. They just need the alchemy.

 

[Mike in Houston]

Trade Jacob Trouba for Neal Pionk right now!

 

[McRanger92]

Drury won’t get fired until the summer, but Laviolette will go sooner than later if they don’t make changes to the player usage

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

The only good players on the team ever are the finesse guys

 

[DanielBrassard]

Drury won’t get fired until the summer, but Laviolette will go sooner than later if they don’t make changes to the player usage

Drury only has so many moves he could make, I’m not sure he’s going to use another on hiring another coach for this particular group. I think he rides it out this season, spends the rest of whatever draft capital he has to spend and then goes from there.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Agreed, I was just talking about what can be done right now. It is certainly not enough, but the bigger personnel changes will likely come on defense (trading Trouba and Lindgren), then over time the team will take a new shape as we move on from Panarin, Kreider, etc.

Im 100% fine with your suggestions. I just wanted to make it clear that the people that think we are just playing the wrong line combinations are being myopic. To win a cup we need to be able to see the forest through the trees

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

A two game losing streak was bound to happen. There was no way they were going to have the year they had last season.

Everyone is safe for now, especially if they exploit a bad Blues team coming into a cold introduction with a new coach.

Hopefully Chytil is back. The main problem is Trouba and Lindgren together. They need to trade Lindgren for a PMD. They also need a swiss army knife like Gourde in case Chytil gets hurt again. Brodz is fine for 2-3 games and then he's back to a 13th forward.

They have plenty of time to figure it out. Some guys either didn't train right or were too drained from the end of last season and it shows.

 

[mrmovies779]

You could bring in prime Scotty Bowman and it won't make a difference if the core remains the same

 

[bhamill]

A hockey team is a delicate ecosystem. even a small change to the margin of a roster can precipitate significant rippling effects in quality and consistency of play - in either direction. you see it all the time.

this team is made up of hockey players who have been on great teams together, as recently as last year. Maybe they've never been the puck possessing, in your face, skill speed and grit powerhouse we all hope for, but they have been a team that has found a way to win when the chips are down and the game is tight.

That's not how they're playing this year. We can all see it. There's a listlessness, a lack of commitment, at the top of the lineup, and there is a lack of ability on the back end. There also seems to be a tactical/structural mismatch. My X's and o's aren't sophisticated enough to diagnose but the Dzone coverage system is not working, pretty much up and down the roster.

But the primary issue is commitment. Hockey is a game of chaos and the margins are so thin that a lack of belief and work rate leads to domination pretty much by any team in the league. This team does not want to play the right way, and the results show it.

But don't tell me they're not a good team. Don't tell me the forwards aren't talented enough. With Chytil Cuylle and Kakko, this is as deep a top 9 as I've seen from a talent perspective in years.

So i agree there needs to be a change, but I think you'd all be surprised by how much the *right* change can inspire the team as a whole to play better hockey. To fight for every inch. I don't think these guys are incapable of playing like that- not Zib. Not Fox. Not Bread. They can dig at that level, they just haven't done so.

In some ways, it's more depressing that the teams flaw isn't talent. It'd be easier to stomach that way. But I don't think they're as far away as they look right now, and I'm not willing to give up on the season.

Just find a LHD, and make the right change up front. maybe it's Bjugstad. Maybe it's Crouse. Maybe it's just elevating Cuylle or bringing up Berard. They need someone other than Trocheck in the top 6 to drag them into the fight every f***ing shift. This team has the raw materials. They just need the alchemy.

Lafrenierre has that fight in the top 6 as well as Trocheck. And honestly so does our entire true second line: Kakko, Chytil and Cuylle. It’s really only the 20-93 line that totally lacks it.

 

[McRanger92]

Drury only has so many moves he could make, I’m not sure he’s going to use another on hiring another coach for this particular group. I think he rides it out this season, spends the rest of whatever draft capital he has to spend and then goes from there.

I agree. I dont see a coaching change doing anything to change the issues with the culture. The roster doesnt deserve another coach. I also think there is a very good team in there if obvious icetime adjustments are made, and if Drury trades for a top 4 defender to jettison Lindgren.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Would it really?

Lindgren for all his flaws gives 100% effort, he's just not good at it.
He's the opposite of the guys who you "want to send a messasge" to.

So what message would be received? Hard work gets you traded?

I think it’s “underperformance gets you traded no matter how popular you are.”

But if you really want to nip the lack of
Effort, you can do it by scratching Kreider.

It won’t happen, but that sends that message to him and everyone else.

 

[McRanger92]

A hockey team is a delicate ecosystem. even a small change to the margin of a roster can precipitate significant rippling effects in quality and consistency of play - in either direction. you see it all the time.

this team is made up of hockey players who have been on great teams together, as recently as last year. Maybe they've never been the puck possessing, in your face, skill speed and grit powerhouse we all hope for, but they have been a team that has found a way to win when the chips are down and the game is tight.

That's not how they're playing this year. We can all see it. There's a listlessness, a lack of commitment, at the top of the lineup, and there is a lack of ability on the back end. There also seems to be a tactical/structural mismatch. My X's and o's aren't sophisticated enough to diagnose but the Dzone coverage system is not working, pretty much up and down the roster.

But the primary issue is commitment. Hockey is a game of chaos and the margins are so thin that a lack of belief and work rate leads to domination pretty much by any team in the league. This team does not want to play the right way, and the results show it.

But don't tell me they're not a good team. Don't tell me the forwards aren't talented enough. With Chytil Cuylle and Kakko, this is as deep a top 9 as I've seen from a talent perspective in years.

So i agree there needs to be a change, but I think you'd all be surprised by how much the *right* change can inspire the team as a whole to play better hockey. To fight for every inch. I don't think these guys are incapable of playing like that- not Zib. Not Fox. Not Bread. They can dig at that level, they just haven't done so.

In some ways, it's more depressing that the teams flaw isn't talent. It'd be easier to stomach that way. But I don't think they're as far away as they look right now, and I'm not willing to give up on the season.

Just find a LHD, and make the right change up front. maybe it's Bjugstad. Maybe it's Crouse. Maybe it's just elevating Cuylle or bringing up Berard. They need someone other than Trocheck in the top 6 to drag them into the fight every f***ing shift. This team has the raw materials. They just need the alchemy.

The team needs a Tkachuk who will do anything to win. Or empower guys like Lafreniere and Cuylle and Chytil to be that. Mika and Kreider set the "turn the other cheek" tone that has been a staple since AV coached them. It's not just ineffective hockey that they play, its unwatchable and boring. At least the games Rempe gets rowdy are fun to watch. The Rangers play like a team collecting a paycheck and its been obvious for awhile. Im begging for them to give the youth we accumulated from the rebuild the reigns.

 

[I Eat Crow]

This team is going nowhere unless they find a way out of the Zibanejad contract somehow. This season is already a lost cause, IMO. The Calgary game was troubling in the sense that they were outworked by a much less skilled team. Last night's game was troubling in the sense that they were out talented too.

This team is going to draw Jersey in the first round again and lose. Drury and Laviolette are going nowhere unless Dolan goes on a bender and hires Mark Messier and Joel Quenneville because "they're winners".

I would give Drury this summer to move some heavy furniture around and see what he does with the cap space. I really do think he has the right idea. He's trying to build a big, skilled team that's hard to play against backed by good goaltending and team defense like the Boston teams of the 2010's.

The defensive corps needs an overhaul. Guys like Fortescue and Emery are going to help but they're both 3 years away from contributing in any meaningful way. Schneider is an obvious "keep", as is Fox. As is Mancini. I think Jones has a role on this team and is a good fit for the modern NHL as a long as a steady guy like Schneider is paired with him. Miller, Lindgren, and Trouba need to go.

Miller is more talent than between the ears and has regressed. He's not Victor Hedman that started slowly and didn't put it together until he was 24. Hedman is a very smart defender whereas Miller is not, that's the difference. He needs to go in favor of another LHD that may have a bit more of a lower ceiling but would slot in nicely as a #3 or #4 LHD on a good contract. Think a guy like Esa Lindell (not the exact player, but that type of player) to play with Fox.

Lindgren is just cooked. His rights will to Utah at the draft for a 4th and 7th rounder.

Trouba might need payment in the form of a prospect or pick to trade even with some money retained. But he needs to go. NMC turns into the NTC this summer. As good as gone. But that money is going to Lafreniere's extension essentially.

 

[Ruggs225]

Its not the coach. Its been like 4 coaches now. It is #20 #93.

 

[noncents]

The team needs a Tkachuk who will do anything to win. Or empower guys like Lafreniere and Cuylle and Chytil to be that. Mika and Kreider set the "turn the other cheek" tone that has been a staple since AV coached them. It's not just ineffective hockey that they play, its unwatchable and boring. At least the games Rempe gets rowdy are fun to watch. The Rangers play like a team collecting a paycheck and its been obvious for awhile. Im begging for them to give the youth we accumulated from the rebuild the reigns.

watchability and winning hockey are not the same thing. They can overlap, but boring defensive hockey wins games. Don't tell me the Rangers are ineffective. They've won more games than anyone, by being boring and defensive and opportunistic.

If you want truculence because that makes it a better product, own that - i can respect it.

But truculence and heart are also not the same thing. They can overlap. Rangers don't need Tkachuk to face wash other teams guys and distract them. They need their top players to commit to playing with deuce and physicality.

also i disagree that Miller needs to go. He does so much out there that works well.

 

[Kocur Dill]

How long is left on Dreary GM deal or whatever his title is ....or can he can himself and hire a new GM to make it look like he is doing something ? Is it just Dolan after them.....would be hard to fire Dolan . It will be a long time before we have this good a goalie and a nucleus of good young kids again . I don't think Drury is capable of it . Who would be a good solid forward thinking GM these days ?

I was never warm to the idea of Messier the coach.

But, Messier the GM? Eh...he ran that 94 team more than Keanan did. I think thats why Smith didnt have much of a career after he left NYR. It was the Keanan and Messier show.

Smith was the deal maker/used car salesman, but Messier was in his ear dismantling the Roger Neilsen team.

Brian Burke would be on my call list as well if he's not entrenched elsewhere.

Somene else mentioned "team identity" and they were right.

Jagr, post lockout, started the post game center ice stick tap and along with his guys (straka, nylander, prospal, roszival, fedotenko) changed the locker room after Sather gutted the 7y blackhole core. Then Torts came in with a 5 man system that worked and held everyone accountable. That was all dismantled by Vigneault and the Country Club/Nose Candy squad and unfortunately our 2 top guys were young and impressionable parts of that loose cannon environment and frankly, it shows at times the past few years. Quinn wasnt a good coach, but both Turk and Lavy got these guys to perform at their best until they slip and need a kick in the ass, but unfortunately the mutiny when a coach gives them one...then the rest either fall in line behind the core, or the hard workers stop working because they see the BS and feel no matter how hard they work its not enough to carry the guys who dont follow their coach, or...the Captain who doesnt Captain.

Im gonna catch flack for that opinion, but this team is gonna tread water until Kreider and Zibanejad either correct their attitude, or ship out. I dont care about longevity, past numbers, cap hit vs production, etc...Strome for Tro was a huge improvement but it wasnt enough. Send Kreider and Zib packing if they refuse to be leaders every game, every period, every shift, becasue it effects the rest of the team when leaders dont lead and undermine the few people above them.

 

[LokiDog]

To really expect significant ripples, I don’t think even moving one guy is sufficient. Lindgren certainly would make the locker room sad and mopey but I don’t think it’s enough of a message. One of Zib, Bread or Kreider has to go. And honestly, yes, it would tank our season (team isn’t winning a Cup this year so… do I care?) retain 50% on Bread and get a haul for him. 100 point winger you get for not one but two runs at $5.8M? We would get a very good return. I’d work on moving Zib in the off-season too, but that’s harder to see happening due to his contract. I imagine some old archaic GMs still value him pretty highly though. Retool with Shesterkin, Fox, Miller, Schneider, Kreider, Trochek, Laf, Chytil, KK, Cullye, Edstrom, Rempe, Perrault, Sykora/Berard/etc.

Bread at 50% with 1.5 years left, Lindgren, Trouba and Zib out between now and next October. Moving Zib would be tough; probably a change of scenery type deal, maybe for someone with less term but Panarin would get a big time return with retention. Lindgren will still be viewed as a gritty shutdown veteran by other GMs. Trouba is still viewed as a leader and physical, shot blocker and would be coveted at 6M. We have 7.5ish retained on the books for one season after this one (retain on Bread/Trouba) and then we’re free and clear with a bunch of assets restocked. Guys like Perrault and maybe Othman, Sykora, Berard can all fill some roster spots potentially. Stay lean for the one season of dead retained cap and let hungry kids prove themselves and then work with the new assets and cap space the following summer.

A guy can dream.

 

[B17 Apricots]

A couple pages late, but I wouldn't hate adding Zegras. I just don't know how he fits in salary wise right now. If Drury really gets ballsy in the summer and frees up more cap than expected you could realistically squeeze in Zegras. I wouldn't expect crazy point totals at the moment. He likely wont see the same PP minutes he's gotten in Anaheim in the short term. But really if you're trading for Zegras that's a move you're making largely for the future. I would look at him as more of a placeholder for this team at the moment. That's really a trade you'd make to see how he looks as a 25/26 year old when guys like Panarin and Kreider could possibly be gone. You'd be picking him up as a possible heir to Mika and Trocheck.

And I'm not particularly bothered that he's a "soft skilled" sort of player... when I look at the young crop of players we have that are looking to shape up as part of the eventual core, we have plenty of hard to play against guys. Laffy, Cuylle, Kakko, Othmann, Berard, Edström, etc.. Drury has put an emphasis on meat and potatoes "character" sort of guys. That's something we won't lack. Maybe a bit much for my taste as far as the draft is concerned, but he's already found some solid prospects so credit where credits due. I was shocked when they drafted Perreault. Anyway, there will be room for a couple high skill, finesse sort of guys. Especially if Panarin doesn't stay here.

 

[Boris Zubov]

You could bring in prime Scotty Bowman and it won't make a difference if the core remains the same

Totally agreed & I've made this similar comment here in the past, however it can also be true that our core isn't good enough & Lavi is making some poor lineup decisions. His hands are mostly tied, but this team clearly looked it's best with Lindgren in street clothes & having Tuba with Schneider, then Jones & Mancini. He should show some balls & bench Lindy for a night or two. Hopefully the positive results are obvious & our GM finally catches wind that this guy needs to get shipped out, ASAP.

Chytil being hurt throws a monkey into the wrench, but the biggest issue the team has with everyone healthy is the BFFs are both 100% special teams merchants at this point. Lavi is between a rock & a hard place...split them up & nuke the other 2 lines or keep them together while limiting their 5v5 ice team. I'd vote for the latter.

He can also stop rewarding them with so much power play time in games like last night. Send a message & sit them for an entire power play when clearly they're not playing well & the score is out of hand. The next step is sitting them in the press box for a night or two.

 

[kovazub94]

Don’t get me wrong - I’m not saying that I enjoyed watching team’s performance so far this season but they haven’t even played the quarter of a season. What we’ve seen so far is that goalie duo picked up where they left off last season as the best in the league, they have a good depth in the forwards group and Schneider and Jones don’t need to be sheltered. I will hold Drury responsible once we see what he’s done to improve defense and 3/4 of the season is enough for vets to turn the season around to the point their struggles so far is a distant memory.

Got to remember how team turned it around with Trouba’s fight and helmet toss two seasons ago or how Shesterkin was able to straighten his yips after All Star break. I’m pretty sure it’s about an effort, not talent. Will it happen again? Who knows but it’s too early to throw in the towel. We know that Trouba and Lindgren will not be coming back and depending on how this season goes - there could be more vets in that boat.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Call up Rempe. I need more chaos in my life.

 

[bernmeister]

Would it really?

Lindgren for all his flaws gives 100% effort, he's just not good at it.
He's the opposite of the guys who you "want to send a messasge" to.

So what message would be received? Hard work gets you traded?

that no vet is a sacred cow who cannot be traded
even ones who otherwise deserve less to be moved than some

Would anyone consider trading Shesterkin to the Blues for Binnington and a prospect like Adam Jiricek? That is assuming, Shesterkin is willing to re-sign with the Blues, which is a distinct possibility because he'd reunite with Captain Happy.

Binnington can be the bridge to Garand.

don't need a bridge
can do Garand most games
Quick most dif ones
Domingue = gap

get max return for Shesty NOW

 

[NYR Viper]

I’m not sure trading Zibanejad will be THAT difficult if the team actually wanted to do so. Especially if Kreider is traded beforehand.

There are ways to take money and contracts back to help even some of the cap hits out. Other teams have guys who they may be okay moving on from and are looking for a top-6 RH center with loads of playoff experience.

 

[LokiDog]

Panarin at 50% means we have 5.8M dead cap for one year after this. We are not winning the Cup with Panarin and I doubt we’re re-signing him (it would be idiotic). He would bring a HAUL at 50% for two playoff runs. It would also shake the room up significantly more than moving Lindy or Miller. I’m fine with the fact that we would have no offense without him this year and eating the cap hit for one more season. I don’t think anyone but Shesterkin or Fox would bring the same return as Panarin at 5.8 would. It’s a genuine chance to add quality assets. We’re a stagnant pretender. Playoff’s assured but almost zero chance of winning a Cup with this group. These are the types of decisions that are better made now than next year at the TDL when Panarin’s value as a pure rental will not be the same.

I also would work pretty hard on getting Zibanejad out of here. Maybe for something like Girard and Colton from Colorado. Maybe Dallas would move Seguin. Higher cap, less years. Maybe it’s a change of scenery for someone like Severson whose cap hit is 2.25M lower (1 year longer, but more manageable) and could take Trouba’s spot. Lindgren can be moved as a rental this year. I’m sure Trouba is also gone with about 2M retention this summer.

That’s gotta be the plan, IMO.