Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XIII (Nanaki edition)

[Savant]

Good news, you don’t have a concussion, bad news, you have to fly commercial to Calgary.

The really good news is if they are flying him to Alberta, then I actually believe he wasn’t concussed

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I’ll happily say it. But the mods would be mad at me.

I still remember the welcome to the nhl live stream that got shut down by spamming the N word.

When everyone screams “eye test” and calling him out worst defender, when we have far worse defenders, who are true eye test fails.

I’ll point out you must be looking at something very specific.

I think Miller is our second best D-man and defend him against the hate. But you see nothing wrong with making him immune from criticism because of the color of his skin?

 

[McRanger92]

I’ll happily say it. But the mods would be mad at me.

I still remember the welcome to the nhl live stream that got shut down by spamming the N word.

When everyone screams “eye test” and calling him out worst defender, when we have far worse defenders, who are true eye test fails.

I’ll point out you must be looking at something very specific.

This is such nonsense. No one is saying we dont have plenty of other bad defenders. Lindgren and trouba are the most maligned players on the site. Miller just happens to be the guy who is going to be demanding a big contract this summer and he's wildly overphyped. The only person seeing color here is you.

 

[noncents]

Appreciate your view points, Id.

Miller has real flaws in terms of his vision and on ice understanding.

as i've said before it's just impossible for people to have a reasonable conversation about his play because the vocal minority wants to ship him out for peanuts because of his hair color, his body language, his facial expression.

As far as him being soft, he consistently uses physicality effectively. not making bone crushing hits or throwing hands after the play but he absolutely holds his own.

the issue here is expectation. Fans of this team decide very early on what they think a player should and will become, and then hold the player up against that standard forever. It happened with Kakko. It happened with Laf. It happens with Miller. It's already started to happen with both Mancini and Perreault. Every time it does, there's an impotent anger at having been made to feel foolish, and a demand to trade them away. Ups and downs, violent swings in either direction... it's noncents.

It's just entitled children syndrome, people unable to look past their own biases and misjudgments. "No," like Principal Skinner realized, "it's the [players] who are wrong."

 

[McRanger92]

Appreciate your view points, Id.

Miller has real flaws in terms of his vision and on ice understanding.

as i've said before it's just impossible for people to have a reasonable conversation about his play because the vocal minority wants to ship him out for peanuts because of his hair color, his body language, his facial expression.

As far as him being soft, he consistently uses physicality effectively. not making bone crushing hits or throwing hands after the play but he absolutely holds his own.

the issue here is expectation. Fans of this team decide very early on what they think a player should and will become, and then hold the player up against that standard forever. It happened with Kakko. It happened with Laf. It happens with Miller. It's already started to happen with both Mancini and Perreault. Every time it does, there's an impotent anger at having been made to feel foolish, and a demand to trade them away. Ups and downs, violent swings in either direction... it's noncents.

It's just entitled children syndrome, people unable to look past their own biases and misjudgments. "No," like Principal Skinner realized, "it's the [players] who are wrong."

My wife would call this gaslighting

 

[TominNC]

I can see that with J-S.....with the way k'Andre has been coughing up the puck, not so much with M-F.

But the actually are a good pair. Top 5 in the league. So something works

 

[noncents]

My wife would call this gaslighting

i am interested in discussing Miller the player in good faith. so i will ask you to explain what you mean here

 

[Mandar]

I’ll happily say it. But the mods would be mad at me.

I still remember the welcome to the nhl live stream that got shut down by spamming the N word.

When everyone screams “eye test” and calling him out worst defender, when we have far worse defenders, who are true eye test fails.

I’ll point out you must be looking at something very specific.

cut the garbage. Nothing about this is racial. You choose to look at fancy stats and others choose to use the eye test that they see. Eye test means the constant giveaways and other bad plays.

This isnt "whatabout" other bad defenders. And you sir are making an inference that does injustice to this entire board.

 

[IDvsEGO]

cut the garbage. Nothing about this is racial. You choose to look at fancy stats and others choose to use the eye test that they see. Eye test means the constant giveaways and other bad plays.

This isnt "whatabout" other bad defenders. And you sir are making an inference that does injustice to this entire board.

miller is the 2nd best defenseman on this team.
When people say eye test and talk giveaways I don’t dismiss that aspect of his game. It’s probably his weakest part. He’s also got tons of strengths that seriously outweigh it.

He’s the strongest 1:1 defender we have.
He’s physical without taking a ton of penalties.
He’s capable of pushing the pace of play.
Hes a gambler in terms of pinches (this is both one of his best qualities and worst)

When paired with Fox, those positive qualities are magnified because he doesn’t have to cover for Trouba’s short comings.


I say it’s gotta be racial because the vitriol that comes out when people take about him is insane compared to actually bad defenders like Lindgren and Trouba.

Trouba turns the puck over 2-3x more per game. Can’t successfully pinch at all, and can’t clear the puck cleanly.
Lindgren is a player who does almost nothing beyond the safe play, and on a team that needs more than that, he costs us tons of possessions.


There’s little else to justify the vitriol except the color of his skin.

Someone earlier mentioned expectations, and that is a small possibility. People want the player they thought they were drafting (burns clone) and instead that’s not miller. He’s closer to slavin than burns. His offense will almost never be more than 30-40
Pts. But he’s capable of locking down a 1c on a 1:1 battle.

 

[McRanger92]

i am interested in discussing Miller the player in good faith. so i will ask you to explain what you mean here

The only people who have brought up his race, are the ones saying not to criticize him. Is it that hard to fathom that a guy with 2 points in 16 games is finding himself the subject of trade talk? He also did absolutely nothing in the playoffs last year(and the year before). He's also up for a big contract extension this summer, at a time where the Igor and Lafreniere contracts are tightening things. And he is soft. He doesnt clear the crease and he doesnt finish checks. It's not because he's black. Trouba is soft too, he only hits guys when they arent looking. Lindgren, also soft, because he is too small and weak to knock anyone down.

If you are attributing the criticisms that people have mentioned to anything racial, that says more about you than the rest of the board members that you're defaming.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I’ll happily say it. But the mods would be mad at me.

I still remember the welcome to the nhl live stream that got shut down by spamming the N word.

When everyone screams “eye test” and calling him out worst defender, when we have far worse defenders, who are true eye test fails.

I’ll point out you must be looking at something very specific.

I think that’s a reach.

Miller has better advanced stats than someone like Lindgren but he makes egregious mistakes constantly that pop out way more than Lindgren who doesn’t have major blunders ever but just generally does everything poorly, quietly.

Trouba is the same way.


Also Miller looked like an absolute stud in the making 2 seasons ago. He’s regressed hard the past 2 seasons. Maybe it’s a coaching thing.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I think that’s a reach.

Miller has better advanced stats than someone like Lindgren but he makes egregious mistakes constantly that pop out way more than Lindgren who doesn’t have major blunders ever but just generally does everything poorly, quietly.

Trouba is the same way.

and I keep pointing out. Miller does make loud mistakes.
He also makes a lot! A lot! Of quiet good plays.
That’s why he looks good on fancy stats.
When he pinches successfully it’s one of the highest impact plays, and he is one of the best at it.
He does a lot of denying zone entries, he and Fox are great at it.

Those things are quiet, and very much part of the eye test that does show up on the fancy stats but everyone talks about is his turnovers, which happen but much less frequent in a game than the positives

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

and I keep pointing out. Miller does make loud mistakes.
He also makes a lot! A lot! Of quiet good plays.
That’s why he looks good on fancy stats.
When he pinches successfully it’s one of the highest impact plays, and he is one of the best at it.
He does a lot of denying zone entries, he and Fox are great at it.

Those things are quiet, and very much part of the eye test that does show up on the fancy stats but everyone talks about is his turnovers, which happen but much less frequent in a game than the positives

He’s playing with Fox, putting up zero offense , and is responsible for a goal against like every game.

Hes never been this bad in years past, something is up with him .

I’d still rather have him paired with Fox than Lindgren, mind you.

 

[IDvsEGO]

He’s playing with Fox, putting up zero offense , and is responsible for a goal against like every game.

Hes never been this bad in years past, something is up with him .

If he was actually responsible for a game against per game, his fancy stats would look atrocious.

 

[Mandar]

miller is the 2nd best defenseman on this team.
When people say eye test and talk giveaways I don’t dismiss that aspect of his game. It’s probably his weakest part. He’s also got tons of strengths that seriously outweigh it.

He’s the strongest 1:1 defender we have.
He’s physical without taking a ton of penalties.
He’s capable of pushing the pace of play.
Hes a gambler in terms of pinches (this is both one of his best qualities and worst)

When paired with Fox, those positive qualities are magnified because he doesn’t have to cover for Trouba’s short comings.


I say it’s gotta be racial because the vitriol that comes out when people take about him is insane compared to actually bad defenders like Lindgren and Trouba.

Trouba turns the puck over 2-3x more per game. Can’t successfully pinch at all, and can’t clear the puck cleanly.
Lindgren is a player who does almost nothing beyond the safe play, and on a team that needs more than that, he costs us tons of possessions.


There’s little else to justify the vitriol except the color of his skin.

Someone earlier mentioned expectations, and that is a small possibility. People want the player they thought they were drafting (burns clone) and instead that’s not miller. He’s closer to slavin than burns. His offense will almost never be more than 30-40
Pts. But he’s capable of locking down a 1c on a 1:1 battle.

Yet no one here is claiming Trouba or Lindgren are anything greater than what they are. Again, this isnt whataboutism.

2nd best is debateable....most nights this season Fox, Schneider, and Jones have been better. Mancini isnt far behind....thats my eyetest. He has the potential to be better and we have seen it in the past. There is nothing consistent in his game at this moment.

We can disagree and debate these things. To infer that color of skin is any sort of reason for other opinions here....in this forum of fans....is disingenuous and outright insulting to every single fan in this forum. Do better....rack your brain to think of any other reason people might disagree with you.

 

[MrAlmost]

There is no underlying metric that measures this, so it gets handwaved by some like its not important.

Uh...hits and blocks? Over 100 in both every year. Pretty tough.

Miller and Fox pass the eye test and they blow away the fancy one. Just cause you guys get extra mad at his 2 giveaways doesn't mean him and Fox aren't dominating play. I know it's hard for us to see what it looks like when a d pair isnt just getting shelled into the stone age, but I promise it actually looks exactly like Miller and Fox. And Jones and Schneider. But Miller and Fox do it against top guys. Even more impressive.

What we should all be doing is putting our mental energies together to psycicly convince Drury to trade Lindgren. Step 1 right there. And not at the TDL when it's too late and only rentals are available and the player never fits in. Do it by Christmas. Get someone that a long term solution.

 

[Machinehead]

The only people who have brought up his race, are the ones saying not to criticize him.

That you know of.

Lest we forget that I see the deleted posts on this forum.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Uh...hits and blocks? Over 100 in both every year. Pretty tough.

Miller and Fox pass the eye test and they blow away the fancy one. Just cause you guys get extra mad at his 2 giveaways doesn't mean him and Fox aren't dominating play. I know it's hard for us to see what it looks like when a d pair isnt just getting shelled into the stone age, but I promise it actually looks exactly like Miller and Fox. And Jones and Schneider. But Miller and Fox do it against top guys. Even more impressive.

What we should all be doing is putting our mental energies together to psycicly convince Drury to trade Lindgren. Step 1 right there. And not at the TDL when it's too late and only rentals are available and the player never fits in. Do it by Christmas. Get someone that a long term solution.

The eye test shows Miller has been pretty awful. Fox has been good.

 

[Machinehead]

I don't really care if Miller is good at this point. I care if Miller-Fox is good. They have been extremely good.

Price becomes an issue. I have a limit on how much I'm willing to sign him for just to be Fox's partner. At the same time, he is safe, and we've seen Fox on a bad pair for a lot of minutes.

It's basically the Lindgren logic, which was something that was discussed after Fox's Norris year, before Lindgren became a clear and obvious drag on Fox in every statistical category.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

idk man, when I see people crushing Miller because of the hair style he’s chosen, I can’t really help but come to conclusions about what people are trying to say

 

[Kravtsov420]

I doubt chytil didn’t have a concussion.

 

[Lion Hound]

Appreciate your view points, Id.

Miller has real flaws in terms of his vision and on ice understanding.

as i've said before it's just impossible for people to have a reasonable conversation about his play because the vocal minority wants to ship him out for peanuts because of his hair color, his body language, his facial expression.

As far as him being soft, he consistently uses physicality effectively. not making bone crushing hits or throwing hands after the play but he absolutely holds his own.

the issue here is expectation. Fans of this team decide very early on what they think a player should and will become, and then hold the player up against that standard forever. It happened with Kakko. It happened with Laf. It happens with Miller. It's already started to happen with both Mancini and Perreault. Every time it does, there's an impotent anger at having been made to feel foolish, and a demand to trade them away. Ups and downs, violent swings in either direction... it's noncents.

It's just entitled children syndrome, people unable to look past their own biases and misjudgments. "No," like Principal Skinner realized, "it's the [players] who are wrong."

Consistently uses Physicality? Holds his own?

Seems like wishful thinking.

 

[duhmetreE]

I’d like to see Panarin Chytil Laffy at some point…. And give them boat loads of 5v5 time

 

[MrAlmost]

The eye test shows Miller has been pretty awful. Fox has been good.

Oh well when you put it that way...

 

[duhmetreE]

There’s 0% chance of KAM being moved.

It’s just not happening. I don’t even see the logic behind it. We’re weak at LHD. He’s a 2-3 on any team you put him on….