Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XIII (Nanaki edition)
- Thread starter Leonardo87
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EdJovanovski
#RempeForCalder
McRanger92
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If only these guys were as passionate about their day job
EdJovanovski
#RempeForCalder
- Apr 16, 2012
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Lindberg Cheese
Registered User
There’s some non-binary to his game, he can pee anywhere - sitting, standing,
Listening to Sirius XM NHL radio right now. They are interviewing Johnny Lazaros and discussed the Rangers.
Mika’s struggles
Miller’s struggles
Miller/fox analytically was good
Miller/trouba pairing not working
Lavi keeps going back to miller/trouba but not sure why
Cuylle playing great, and his potential
But once again, no mention of Lindgren being absolutely awful. Or their defense problems started when he came back. Why is everyone not on HF boards not discussing it?
Mika’s struggles
Miller’s struggles
Miller/fox analytically was good
Miller/trouba pairing not working
Lavi keeps going back to miller/trouba but not sure why
Cuylle playing great, and his potential
But once again, no mention of Lindgren being absolutely awful. Or their defense problems started when he came back. Why is everyone not on HF boards not discussing it?
- Feb 17, 2013
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The Rangers had defensive issues before Lindgren came back, they were just masked by stellar goaltending and better puck possession. The chances against, although fewer, were still high quality.
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
Discussing Lindgren's issues is like saying water is wet. What's the point? Group copium consumption?
McRanger92
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"Jonny Lazarus" representing Rangers media sphere on national radio is a crying shame. Guy is a blockhead.
Atax
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Glen Sathers Cigar
Sather 4 Ever
Yup, need to take the Dallas approach with this. Benn and Seguin are still contributors but younger players earned higher places in the lineup.
So fewer chances against and better offense? Yeah, sounds like Lavi should have made changes.
KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
Lagreca and Pucik on their podcast yesterday mentioned that Mika and Lindgren are guys who need to be moved , although they are of the mind that Lindgren isn’t as big of a problem as Mika. He legit said Drury should ask him where he wants to be traded to. I was cheering in my car.
My google feed is overflowing with news and blog posts about how bad the Rangers are right now, and how certain players are just terrible and Laviolette is making all the wrong moves.
Real grassroots movement happening boys. Our voices are being heard.
JCProdigy
Registered User
BTW, honest question. I just responded to a post about how our defensive issues were masked by better puck possession. Why in 2024 are people STILL separating defense from puck possession? Part of puck possession is getting it out of the D zone and when you possess the puck you're less likely to give up goals. This reads like Rangers fans on Facebook who think being stuck in your own zone for complete shifts and blocking shots and getting hits is good defense. This is why so many people think Lindgren is good defensively.
- Feb 17, 2013
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I guess reading comprehension might not be your thing. All I was saying is that the pre-Lindgren Rangers were still giving up noisy chances against.
Puck possession is one of the many things that goes into good defense. Its a lot more than just "puck possession".
But those things are a major part of good defense.
Yes but you treated puck possession as some different metric. And you also admitted that they gave up FEWER noisy chances. So what's the issue? They're not the 95 Devils? Ok, you don't need to be to win.
- Feb 17, 2013
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Directionally we are all agreeing. It's just that puck possession is a proxy for good defense, but it isn't the complete picture. If puck possession was the total picture, then Erik Karlsson would be the greatest defenseman of all time. Instead, every team he joins has a tendency to turn into ass.
Not all that can be counted counts, and not all that counts can be counted.
We’re not a great possession team, partially for the same reason our D looks terrible many nights, IMO.
Our forwards are lazy.
You’re not gonna be a good possession team if you don’t like working the cycle, you aren’t good at/willing to work for puck retrievals and second chances, etc. Similarly lazy/bone headed passes, weak backchecks and generally just putting the D in bad spots/not providing strong support makes the D look bad. The D has been bad, but I don’t think it’s really the personnel. The entire sport is a team game now more than ever. A lack of competent, puck moving/capable transition D can kill your offense. A forward corps that doesn’t want to play defense can make your defense look like trash.
This is why teams rarely carry more than one Gudas type on the backend (and even he would be considered an okay puck mover compared to some “heavy stay at home” guys of the past - the minimum requisite skill to play at all in this league is higher than ever) and likewise why guys like Parenteau and Pirri and Sprong can’t hold down jobs regardless of offensive talent. You’re either Bread level offensively or you play some defense in this league.
Most of our guys don’t really like doing “the hard parts” of the game. And that, IMO, is the biggest reason this group simply won’t win as configured. The total testosterone in the locker room is probably 30% lower than it needs to be for this exact same group to win it all. It’s not skill or ability that’s lacking.
Our forwards are lazy.
You’re not gonna be a good possession team if you don’t like working the cycle, you aren’t good at/willing to work for puck retrievals and second chances, etc. Similarly lazy/bone headed passes, weak backchecks and generally just putting the D in bad spots/not providing strong support makes the D look bad. The D has been bad, but I don’t think it’s really the personnel. The entire sport is a team game now more than ever. A lack of competent, puck moving/capable transition D can kill your offense. A forward corps that doesn’t want to play defense can make your defense look like trash.
This is why teams rarely carry more than one Gudas type on the backend (and even he would be considered an okay puck mover compared to some “heavy stay at home” guys of the past - the minimum requisite skill to play at all in this league is higher than ever) and likewise why guys like Parenteau and Pirri and Sprong can’t hold down jobs regardless of offensive talent. You’re either Bread level offensively or you play some defense in this league.
Most of our guys don’t really like doing “the hard parts” of the game. And that, IMO, is the biggest reason this group simply won’t win as configured. The total testosterone in the locker room is probably 30% lower than it needs to be for this exact same group to win it all. It’s not skill or ability that’s lacking.
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He's only played for 3 teams and his 3rd team he's past his prime for regardless of the one fluke big season. And here's the thing the argument we have with our current roster is not do we want 6 Lidstroms or 6 Karlssons, it's do we want to have 6 Karlssons or 6 Jack Johnsons. I'm simplifying. With this roster and the way we play we're not going to be the 95 Devils. So giving up some chances (and even then fewer chances as you admitted) but possession the puck more and as a result having more offense and spending less time in the D zone is WAAAAAY better than not possessing the puck and giving up more chances.
Possession game looked fine when we had D pairs that made sense and no Lindgren this season.
I’d say better, yes. But like I said, D that can’t move the puck can kill your offense/possession just as much as lazy forwards can kill your defense, and Lindy gets significant minutes. But even though our possession game was better, I don’t think this team will ever be possession giants the way that, say Colorado with Landeskog, Nichuskin, Rantanen and Lehkonen all healthy were. Those guys all dominate puck battles and retrievals and keep plays alive and create second and third chances. Obviously guys like Mack and Mak enhance that, but I’m talking just about the type of players that drive positive possession. And all the guys I mentioned are wingers, btw.
To your other point regarding Karlsson - some of the responses have been similar to the way people now talk about Ovie as this inept one trick pony. Karlsson in his prime was SO good AS a defenseman, because his possession game meant he didn’t HAVE TO spend much time playing D in his own end. He dragged pretty mediocre Sens teams to playoff wins and earned his first Norris despite not being the greatest defender because his ability to simply play 25 minutes and only let the other team be on the attack for 5 of those minutes WAS good defense in and of itself. Sort of a “the best defense is a good offense” scenario. I think our forward group is a bunch of entitled bratty babies. Therefore, despite having the talent, we look less than the sum of our parts. The best teams always manage to be more than the sum of their individual parts.
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