Roster Building Thread - Part XII

[xsniper11x]

I'm in no way defending the number, but I don't see any better options out there. If we let him walk, we will be worse for it, and it may be many years before we can get back to where we are.

Panarin will have 1 year left. Kreider will have 2. Mika may decline further. Everyone likes to talk about the window to win. Well, it will close a hell of a lot faster if we don't have a competent goalie. We could find ourselves in another rebuild in a few years, having won absolutely nothing.

At some point we’re bidding against ourselves. There are very few (possibly zero) good teams that would offer him this contract in FA. Gs salaries are never comped to elite skaters. Their returns in trades are almost always underwhelming. The position simply is what it is. And the kicker in all of it is we have a clear edge in scouting, developing and coaching Gs. Ignoring all this to placate Igor’s ego just seems silly to me.

 

[mas0764]

You have to play the hands you're dealt. 8 mil will look like 6mil by the time that it's necessary. Im high on the Rangers center depth long term if Chytil stays healthy. Mika is slightly overpaid and not a play driver anymore, but he's not washed up or anything. 70+ points in the worst season as a Ranger. if he actually makes an effort to shoot the puck this year, he'll have 90 points again.

Maybe. I am scarred from the playoffs perhaps.

I just feel like he individually and that line in general, whoever is on the right wing, just doesn't work.

Obviously the Laf-Tro-Panarin line is fire.

The Cuylle-Chytil-Kakko line sucked last year in terms of production but it was injured beyond reasonability and dominated possession anyway. It looked great opening night.

I felt like Mika looked very timid again. We will see. I can't abide another season of the "first line," only producing on the PP again all year. That line does nothing at 5v5.

 

[Fitzy]

That'd be one of those investment contracts for Lafreniere. We never really did those before Adam Fox.

It's just one player, obviously, but that implies the 'second window' rather than rebuild that @mas0764 and I have been discussiung for years, if the next step is to cycle in new stars or to blow it up- this leans the former.

 

[SA16]

Over the last ten years the Rangers backups have a combined save percentage of .915 and a record of 88-50-17. That includes Raanta, Talbot, Quick, Halak, Kinkaid, Pavelec, Skapski, Hellberg, Domingue, Huska, Halverson. Igor has a save percentage of .921. Is it necessary to pay so much more than anyone else for a goalie when they've managed to get above average production out of all these cheap guys anyway?

 

[DanielBrassard]

Yea, I don't know where this whole "Igor is the best player on the team" thing has come from. It's not. He's the third best. The media says nonsense like this all the time though. 3-4 years ago Joe and such would nonstop talk about how Zibanejad was the best player on the team when he obviously was not better than Panarin. It's recency bias because he had a great playoff and ignores the fact that he was actively bad in December and January.


Well, you used the term "isn't a disappointment." He is very clearly a disappointment, as of now, given when was expected out of him. Doesn't mean he's not an important player.

As you said, it’s all recency bias and the overemphasis on small sample sizes such as the playoffs that feed into the narrative. Obviously playing well in the playoffs is important, but then you create scenarios like this. Of course Igor is great and one of the best goalies in the world, but he wasn’t even top-10 last season in important goaltending metrics. His buddy sorokin has just as many top-5 seasons in GSAx. Does anyone think he’s as good as Fox or Panarin?

 

[Fitzy]

Over the last ten years the Rangers backups have a combined save percentage of .915 and a record of 88-50-17. That includes Raanta, Talbot, Quick, Halak, Kinkaid, Pavelec, Skapski, Hellberg, Domingue, Huska, Halverson. Igor has a save percentage of .921. Is it necessary to pay so much more than anyone else for a goalie when they've managed to get above average production out of all these cheap guys anyway?

Again I think it really comes down to whether you think NYR can construct a cup winning roster with a median goaltender if we free up 5-6 million more in cap dollars.

I have my doubts. But there's no certainty that the correct move now might not be the same correct move in 3 years time.

 

[McRanger92]

Maybe. I am scarred from the playoffs perhaps.

I just feel like he individually and that line in general, whoever is on the right wing, just doesn't work.

Obviously the Laf-Tro-Panarin line is fire.

The Cuylle-Chytil-Kakko line sucked last year in terms of production but it was injured beyond reasonability and dominated possession anyway. It looked great opening night.

I felt like Mika looked very timid again. We will see. I can't abide another season of the "first line," only producing on the PP again all year. That line does nothing at 5v5.

Mika was our best skater overall in the 2022 run, how quickly thats forgotten. The way I see it with Zibanejad is that people should probably make peace with his limitations as a player and instead of holding it against him, appreciate the countless good things he's done in his Ranger career. He is one of the best centers in franchise history and he has an NMC. He isn't going anywhere and he's part of the solution.

 

[GAGLine]

That'd be one of those investment contracts for Lafreniere. We never really did those before Adam Fox.

It's just one player, obviously, but that implies the 'second window' rather than rebuild that @mas0764 and I have been discussiung for years, if the next step is to cycle in new stars or to blow it up- this leans the former.

Staal got a longer-term deal coming out of his ELC. But yeah, we haven't had many players deserving of that kind of contract that quickly. Kreider took time to get where he is. Even Laf is going into his 3rd contract. Those type of deals are typically given to guys taken at the top of the draft. We haven't been smart/lucky enough to draft someone that good.

 

[Ruggs225]

I think Kakko is a cap casualty no matter what. The rangers are going to have to go extremely cheap on the periphery of the roster, and they have cheap in-house options like Berard, Othmann, and Gabe Perreault on the wing. Just hope he has a good season and they get good value for him when he’s traded.

So we are now jettisoning youth to
Keep igor and the vets.

Assuming that he breaks out.

Its like Buch all over again

 

[MrAlmost]

To the 32T point, if Igor makes 8x11, he will make 7 MILLION more than Panarin over the life of the contract. Thats how years work Igor. 8 years is better than 7. Haha

Edit: And for the record, Fox is the best player on the team and it's not even close.

 

[kovazub94]

lol "9 is more than fair" my brother in christ we already offered 11.

what you think is fair is not relevant

This. Drury already offered $11 so anything below this is just irrelevant. Even if Igor were to have a sub-expectations year - this number will not come down. It just doesn’t work like this in the real world.

 

[Ruggs225]

This. Drury already offered $11 so anything below this is just irrelevant. Even if Igor were to have a sub-expectations year - this number will not come down. It just doesn’t work like this in the real world.

I mean thats not necessarily true.

If he gets injured, or does bomb it could come down.

All the rangers would have to do is rescind the offer and let Shesty explore the ton of big offers that probably wont come his way from other teams.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I doubt it. For one, we are currently using LTIR to fit Mancini on the roster. If we keep him once Lindgren is back, then we have to send down one of the forwards. I'm sure you'd be okay with waiving Brodzinski, but I doubt Drury/Lavi will agree. That means one of Edstrom or Rempe would have to go down.

Mancini has played all of 18 games as a pro. He won't be hurt by spending time in Hartford, and he'll be the first call up if and one someone gets hurt.

He won't be hurt by sending him down but the nhl roster will be.

My guess on this contract for Igor is 4x11.5

I mean thats not necessarily true.

If he gets injured, or does bomb it could come down.

All the rangers would have to do is rescind the offer and let Shesty explore the ton of big offers that probably wont come his way from other teams.

Unless it's a career ending injury the offers will be there.

 

[Leonardo87]

I have mixed feelings about Shesty getting paid 11 million plus a year. Yeah he is a very good goalie no question and the Rangers have been blessed with elite goaltending for the past several decades…..

But, even with the cap going up (other contracts will be inflated) it may really handcuff this team to getting serious depth.

i have seen teams win it all with just mediocre and just average goaltending. So it makes you think.

 

[Fitzy]

I just have zero interest in paying a veteran goaltender 60% of the money to put up a .900.

As concerning as the idea of 100 million for Igor is, there's no question that a .920 today is a lot different than .920 was during Hank's peak.

 

[SA16]

I mean thats not necessarily true.

If he gets injured, or does bomb it could come down.

All the rangers would have to do is rescind the offer and let Shesty explore the ton of big offers that probably wont come his way from other teams.

See John Klingberg for example

 

[noncents]

Nothing that any of us think is relevant yet we all still post it.

And Drury will be a fool if he gives Igor that deal whether he agrees with us or not. He was a fool for offering it. $11m is too much.

in my mind you're one of the posters here that's able to separate the "should" world from the real world.

i think it's fine to discuss either, but imo discussions of realistic possibilities are more relevant.

 

[Ruggs225]

Unless it's a career ending injury the offers will be there.

Doesnt have to be career ending. Say he injuries his hip or knee late season and doesnt come back. It could be career altering but u dont know.

How can u justify that contract for 8 years?

Just saying its not cut and dry.

At this point the best course is to sign laf and let the season play out. No point in bidding against yourself.

Plus if jones, miller and kakko have big years it might change the dynamic.

Alot of factors in play. I would let the year play out if i were drury. Igors price cant go much higher, but things could happen over the course of the year that can make u think “ is igor really worth it?” Is losing players better to keep igor?

They should be in no rush. Especially since igoers list of suitors is probably almost non existent after us.

 

[noncents]

Mika was our best skater overall in the 2022 run, how quickly thats forgotten. The way I see it with Zibanejad is that people should probably make peace with his limitations as a player and instead of holding it against him, appreciate the countless good things he's done in his Ranger career. He is one of the best centers in franchise history and he has an NMC. He isn't going anywhere and he's part of the solution.

i agree with this - fans blame him for not being something, for getting paid like a better player. NY media is shitty and NYR fans are shittier. we turn on our own.

Trouba is different. he's butt

 

[RangerBoy]

I’m interested to know what kind of a jump we are going to see with the new cba allegedly. Heard the same shit after the debt was paid off. Anyway locking Laf up at that number through his prime is pretty good.

The current CBA/MOU has the cap increases built into the agreement.

 

[TGWL]

And if Kakko breaks out it will be even harder.

We might have to gut the team to afford him.

and he isnt $4m better than swayman, helly or Saros.

This is just insanity

We're not talking about fantasy land here....


I kid. maybe...

 

[RangerBoy]

Igor wants to be the highest paid on the Rangers surpassing Panarin's $11,642,857 cap hit. This season and next season for Artemi. Punt him out the door when that contract expires when the new CBA begins. $100M salary cap? Perreault on a rookie deal replaces Panarin.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

EF said on 32T today that Igor and his reps know he’s NYR best player and want to top Panarins 11.6 AAV.

AP got 14.29% of cap when he signed. Igor wants that. 12-12.5 with todays math

Gonna turn sour with the fanbase real fast if he has even an inconsistent stretch. Good luck.

I'm in no way defending the number, but I don't see any better options out there. If we let him walk, we will be worse for it, and it may be many years before we can get back to where we are.

Panarin will have 1 year left. Kreider will have 2. Mika may decline further. Everyone likes to talk about the window to win. Well, it will close a hell of a lot faster if we don't have a competent goalie. We could find ourselves in another rebuild in a few years, having won absolutely nothing.

This is overwhelmingly likely with or without Igor. Tough to see how the NYR replace 10/93/20 impact in a cap efficient way from here to maintain ‘contender’ status through Igor’s contract.

 

[McRanger92]

i agree with this - fans blame him for not being something, for getting paid like a better player. NY media is shitty and NYR fans are shittier. we turn on our own.

Trouba is different. he's butt

Trouba is a mercenary at the end of the day. That's why he doesnt (and shouldnt tbh) get the benefit of the doubt like Mika should. If Mika makes and effort to shoot the puck more, like Panarin last year, he will have a bounceback on the stat sheet and analytically

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

That'd be one of those investment contracts for Lafreniere. We never really did those before Adam Fox.

It's just one player, obviously, but that implies the 'second window' rather than rebuild that @mas0764 and I have been discussiung for years, if the next step is to cycle in new stars or to blow it up- this leans the former.

NYR will never actually rebuild at least not in any reasonable timeline I will prob be alive for. Best chance is someone on here wins the Powerball (actually that won’t be enough) or becomes an AI billionaire and buys the team from Dolan. That much should be clear to everyone here after seeing what they did post “letter”