Roster Building Thread - Part XII

[eco's bones]

I would rather let igor go than have to fo through 8 years at 12 million.

In all honesty i dont think we win a cup with or without igor. This core just doesn't have it.

We dont have an elite center that u need. Zib is not it.

If we cut bait with igor it will expose this team for what it is quicker and have a chance of maybe sucking for a year or two and winning a lottery or getting a center in the top 10 of the draft.

Panarin and kreider aint going to be around and produce for lever, and i dont think we have the prospects to pick up the pieces. And again we have NO center depth which is the most important piece for a cup.

If we sign igor for that awful contract of 7 or 8 by 11/12 then we are resigned to 6-8 years of mediocrity, and early round exits. We certainly wont be leaving the second round bc the Devils are going to be a force.

if im Drury i call igors bluff. I dont negotiate till the end of the year. Igors value cant go much higher, but he can certainly come down in price with any shakiness.

Plus if we dont win the cup this year, you have to think that a rebuild/retool could be on the table. Trouba gone, panarin on the last year of contract, kreider with 2 years. Thats some interesting pieces that could be moved for good returns. Also trocheck and even zib. everything should be on the table if we dont win this year. Especially if kreider, panarin and zibs no show late in the playoffs again

At least you're not going with the line that the team can win with a mediocre or average starter. Because I don't think that's so. We wouldn't have won the regular season last year. We may have made the playoffs anyway but we wouldn't have played the Caps in the first round. Some other team would have bounced them and we might or might not have made it out of the first round. We certainly weren't going to beat the Canes without Igor in net and would probably have been swept by the Panthers without him.

The Rangers clearly made a choice between him and Georgiev who is more than less an average starter.

It's not just a question of how much cap $'s for your starting goalie is too much but also how much is going to be too little. There are so many examples of defenses and goaltenders breaking down regular season meaning no playoffs or breaking down in playoffs particularly in the first round meaning no Cups. There is both how to balance these things and even quite a bit of luck involved in building a Cup winning team. The Rangers really don't look like they have an in house answer to who could possibly replace Igor----unless people think Garand could but he might only top out as someone like Georgiev. Back a couple years ago I was suggesting Jesper Wallstedt with our 1st round pick (we took Othmann instead) and almost no one liked that idea---what did we need a goalie for? when we have Igor. Well?

 

[kovazub94]

It pops the bubble of the people lying to themselves that he was getting 8.8.

Yup, lie to yourself that he signs for under $9 with no basis for such estimate - then get outraged that it's proven to be way off the mark.

 

[leetch99]

View attachment 913528

It is the only way that affords us to keep everybody else deemed as being needed and icing a competitive team under the Cap...but I will listen to your alternative that involves signing Igor at or around 11 . Keep in mind...this takes place in a year's time . No matter who sets up in the crease....with Fox-Laf-Bread....the Rangers PP will still be good .

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Fox and Mika absolutely left money on the table. If Mika had a 90 point season in his walk year he would've got 9-10 on a 7 year deal.

Okay, Fox makes 9.5 and was an RFA. Not sure he left anything on the table.

Mika yes maybe like 500K per.

No Forsling type deals to be had here

 

[bernmeister]

That's exactly what I'm talking about, though. The NHL would have to negotiate with the player's union as part of the CBA talks if they wanted to change or eliminate movement clauses, and the union would push back hard on that.

I haven't seen any indication that it's something the NHL is concerned about, so it's unlikely to change in any case.

We are essentially on the same pg
just 2 slightly dif paths
You are saying this gets covered in CBA across the board
I'm not disputing that.
BUT
I am A;LSO saying let's take a stand now

clauses are for negotiation, they are not an entitlement
If it is a dealbreaker, then we have a choice;
either so be it, and we knuckle under
OR
we stand firm and the player gives in

Will a player give in?
Some will, some won't -- dif priorities dif strokes for dif folks

 

[Hire Sather]

Remember when Igor lost to whatever that garbage goalie NJ had

Goalie can't carry an average team to a cup

 

[Takeahnase]

HFBoards: What this team needs is more Roslovics. Zero vision and skill, more speed and tenacity. That should get it done.

 

[Mandar]

HFBoards: What this team needs is more Roslovics. Zero vision and skill, more speed and tenacity. That should get it done.

Is that you Rico Fata?

 

[bernmeister]

I wish they'd stop lookin at Brodz and Vesey. Both of them are holding spots that should be held by players on two way deals you can send back and forth to the AHL. The fact we send better players to the minors for fear of exposing either guy is silly. And, for God's sake, when you have a guy like edstrom in the minors, play him at center so when we need one he's there instead if clinging to Brodz because he's a ahl center.

Vesey first, we need to ditch him now.
Brodz I'm not married to but as a righty shot pivot who looked good in spots, I can see him here as a stopgap while we wait for upgrades to arrive

I have been pushing for both RempEd to play full 4th line or better mins now

 

[nsvoyageurs]

There probably isn't a great deal out there, and I'm not keeping somebody just because we couldn't trade them.

My top preference is to re-sign Shesterkin, though at an AAV that won't cripple their cap and be unable to put a team around him capable of winning a Stanley Cup.

If that isn't possible/realistic, then a trade should be seriously considered.

 

[bernmeister]

Vesey and Brodz are here because they provide experienced depth.

Even if the kids are better, and that's debatable, the difference isn't significant at this point. But the drop off from them to the next ones in line is much more significant. If Chytil gets hurt and Brodz is the 3C, we probably aren't going far, but he's still a better option than someone like Barker or Korczak.

Edstrom will likely play tomorrow, and he'll get plenty of games this year, even if he has to spend some time in the AHL. Same goes for Rempe. Who else is actually ready? Othmann clearly needs more seasoning. Berard is close and could probably play on the 3rd line, but we don't really have a 3rd line spot available, and spending most of another year in Hartford will only help him.

Agree w/you as to Brodz
not on Vesey

 

[hpNYR]

What was Lundqvist's cap hit? Wasn't it 8.5 million and that was how many years ago? Extrapolating that to todays market ....is 3-4 mil more really that unrealistic with the cap going up and Trouba off the books after the season?

11.5 - 12 mill per for Shesterkin may not be awful for someone who will likely be more decorated than Lundqvist when it's all said and done. Maybe that's just the bias in me as an avid Shesterkin fan.

 

[mas0764]

Cool. They will continue to lose if their priority is squeezing the most millions out of the team.

I also like how the retort is "It's on the GM to make the money work," as if there is some magic formula that he has to discover where 2+2 will equal 3 instead of 4 and thus allow us to fit in more salaries.

It's a hard cap. It's a zero sum game. More for Igor means less for anyone else who wants to stay a Ranger.

Hell, more for Igor quite literally means less for everyone else PERIOD. There are 32 teams and an $88 million hard cap. There is an absolute upper limit of salary for the whole league and it's negotiated every CBA. While that CBA runs, any player breaking the bank means less for the other players who can't command a premium.

I'm sure it is not so simple as "the players are behind him and want him to get paid."

On one level I'm sure they are happy for him and they do want salaries to keep climbing... at the expense of the owners and not themselves. On another level they aren't dummies and I'm sure they are both (1) jealous and (2) observant of the fact that because of an overpayment to him, there is less for them.

 

[Machinehead]

My top preference is to re-sign Shesterkin, though at an AAV that won't cripple their cap and be unable to put a team around him capable of winning a Stanley Cup.

If that isn't possible/realistic, then a trade should be seriously considered.

And if a trade isn't considered because we go for a Cup, and then we can't agree on an amount that fits the team, what happens?

 

[MrAlmost]

Admittedly I am fairly new to this community but have been a long-time fan of various sports teams including the Rangers for a long time. Help me understand…why does this community tend to hate our best players? Panarin and Igor are objectively our best players.

It’s really, really odd. Never seen the likes of it for any other online fan community I’ve been a part of.

It’s pretty common in soccer boards for fans of rival clubs to go undercover and rabble rouse saying all kinds if wild shit, I can only guess there may be some at it here with some of these absolutely insane takes.


Who does Tro and Laf share a line with? You ever watch a game and think hey this Russian guy is facilitating some of their success?

Yeah they play well together. I don't think it's a coincidence that Panarin has had his best offensive year ever with those 2 players. I think there is a good compliment going on and it's not just cause Panarin. I have watch multiple games and thought the Russian guy was doing a lot. I've also watched a lot of games, oddly as a specific time of year, where the other guys did a whole lot more.

HFBoards: What this team needs is more Roslovics. Zero vision and skill, more speed and tenacity. That should get it done.

Come on now. Thats hyperbole too. Everyone knows Rosy didn't get the right chance here and that we hope Laf and Kakko to play a little more like him.

 

[NYRKING30]

Don’t do it Chris.. ride out the season. Igor is crazy if he thinks he’s getting more than 12.5 as a UFA, unless he doesn’t mind going to a shit team.

 

[IDvsEGO]

And if a trade isn't considered because we go for a Cup, and then we can't agree on an amount that fits the team, what happens?

We move his rights and figure out goaltending next year. Drury should be looking at a plan B now.

 

[bernmeister]

Igor. Thank you for your services.

Honestly Igor can get f***ed.

Selfish as f***. Play out the season and let him walk.

If this is true, and I have no reason to not believe Weekes, it’s insane on Igors part and a long term blessing for NYR.

Toodle loo

Don’t like that

Igor can go f*** himself, The Rangers will still exisit and the name on the front matters most

lol bye Igor

don't cut nose to spite face
deal him if we can't meet each other -- he gets max $, we get no clauses

Trade Igor to San Jose for Askarov.

no
Zib + Shesty + Jones
for
Nylander + Knies + Liljigren

Yeah igor can get bent. No goalie is worth that much and he rejected it.

f*** him and the horse he rode in on.

you forgot to mention without any grease so it will hurt more

kidding aside
I go 11.25 x 8 but ONLY if NO clauses, I can flip him later

 

[Gluten Free Breadman]

Remember when Igor lost to whatever that garbage goalie NJ had

Goalie can't carry an average team to a cup

Remember when the Devils won a cup without a franchise goalie?

Remember when the Lightning couldn't win before Vasi?

Remember Florida beating us with Bob?

yeah well but vegas and colorodo.

I guarrantee that their gms wish they had Igor. They would have won 4 in a row.

 

[Takeahnase]

2+2 doesn’t equal 3. It equals 4. But so does 1+3, 1.5+2.5, etc.

I doubt K’Andre Miller is crying at night with the thought that Igor might make some scrilla, is he an avowed Stalinist or something? The only Leon he knows of is Draisaitl not Trotsky. He understands how the business of hockey or life works.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

And if a trade isn't considered because we go for a Cup, and then we can't agree on an amount that fits the team, what happens?

He walks. Let him go.

 

[bernmeister]

And if a trade isn't considered because we go for a Cup, and then we can't agree on an amount that fits the team, what happens?

this is the fallacy

win now is best not by most concentrated team in a given season
win now is best BY EXTENDING OUR WINDOW

 

[Shesterkybomb]

What was Lundqvist's cap hit? Wasn't it 8.5 million and that was how many years ago? Extrapolating that to todays market ....is 3-4 mil more really that unrealistic with the cap going up and Trouba off the books after the season?

11.5 - 12 mill per for Shesterkin may not be awful for someone who will likely be more decorated than Lundqvist when it's all said and done. Maybe that's just the bias in me as an avid Shesterkin fan.

How'd that contract work out for us?

 

[SA16]

Provided his ask doesn't come down, letting him walk seems to be a pretty easy solution considering I doubt he has much trade value given his contract demands and there is no viable alternative for this season.

 

[Ail]

No, based on what we hear from the MSG/Vince propaganda machine, they seem to firmly think Igor is their key to winning.

And yet, they haven't, and also seem pretty content with the team around him.

It's all just an accident and the wheel will land on our spot any year now.

This is my only whitepill, you can still win by dumb luck without a winning strategy. Hey, ya neva know!