Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XII

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Wow. Where did you get the notion that ANY of this is what is happening? Just what is it that you want to see that will evidence that they are all-in on a rebuild??

Two things:

1. Guys like Hayes and Zuccarello (and maybe more) should have been traded at the draft/in the off-season. What purpose do they serve? Their trade values may have been higher back then and, most importantly, their presence in the lineup can be the different between drafting 2nd and drafting 7th.

2. Why do we have these teetering veterans littered throughout the lineup? McQuaid, Spooner, Namestikov, McLeod - the list goes on. Why are they here? Kids should be in their spots? And if the kids aren't ready, AHL'ers should be in the lineup.

This is, to quote Gorton, an "on the fly" rebuild. As Rangerboy alluded, there needs to be a of short-term pain to gain that long-term success. The Rangers will continue to toil in mediocrity if nothing changes.

 

[Off Sides]

I was pretty much fine with their rebuild right up until the traded for McQuaid and broke camp with the roster they did, there is no real need to showcase their younger prospects at the NHL level yet there is a need to see if the older prospects can develop into anything.

 

[Leetch3]

Do people want us to lose 82 games? We’re 2-4-1, that’s a pretty bad record. Do people think we’re going to get better as the season goes along, and injuries start to set in? When contenders separate from pretenders?

lol i didn't even realize how bad of a pace that is until seeing your post and doing the math. that would be the worst record most recent years, easily bottom 3

 

[E-Train]

Do people want us to lose 82 games? We’re 2-4-1, that’s a pretty bad record. Do people think we’re going to get better as the season goes along, and injuries start to set in? When contenders separate from pretenders?

This is exactly why there's no reason to complain now. They're bad and will likely get worse. With OT & SO wins you'll never see a 1974-75 Capitals outcome. I expect they'll be bottom 5 with a shot at worst overall. Maybe some of these opponents should've dominated better. Players are not gonna lay down.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Im not so sure this squad is a lock for bottom 5, especially with Lundqvist seemingly a bit rejuvenated. The point that Rangerboy and others are making is, if you're going to be real bad this season, why not remove all doubt and give yourself the best chance to draft a generational talent.

 

[Irishguy42]

 

[gravey9]

As the season goes on and if Hartford has a legit chance of doing something I hope all the promising kids go down there. The new young core has a better chance of molding into a tight-knit group down there then they do in the NHL this season. Would be great to have a deep playoff run in HFD with Andersson, Chytil, Howden, Hajek, Fogarty, Fontaine, Gettinger and possibly Rykov and Kravtsov. Let the vets take the lumps and tank.

 

[Irishguy42]

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Im not so sure this squad is a lock for bottom 5, especially with Lundqvist seemingly a bit rejuvenated. The point that Rangerboy and others are making is, if you're going to be real bad this season, why not remove all doubt and give yourself the best chance to draft a generational talent.

I wouldn’t say we’re a lock, but I would say we certainly look the part.

Not to mention: even IF we finished last in the league, we only have an 18% chance at 1.

Also, let’s see how long Hank can keep this up. Is he capable of doing this for 70 games?

 

[Off Sides]

Im not so sure this squad is a lock for bottom 5, especially with Lundqvist seemingly a bit rejuvenated. The point that Rangerboy and others are making is, if you're going to be real bad this season, why not remove all doubt and give yourself the best chance to draft a generational talent.

Rangers want to be competitive, they seem to believe that will further along their rebuild than if they were just bad.

They also seem to think character/leadership are super important for this season as those traits will effect the future iterations of the roster.

I think eventually those things will become important, right now stockpiling as much future talent as they can while making sure the youngest talents they have are in a good position to develop should be the focus.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Rangers want to be competitive, they seem to believe that will further along their rebuild than if they were just bad.

They also seem to think character/leadership are super important for this season as those traits will effect the future iterations of the roster.

I think eventually those things will become important, right now stockpiling as much future talent as they can while making sure the youngest talents they have are in a good position to develop should be the focus.

Listen, I'm all for this...eventually. If the Rangers weren't always looking to take shortcuts, which has been a hallmark ever since I started watching them 30 years ago, this would be a 3-5 year process. I could be completely wrong, but I don't think we have a future superstar within the organization. If you can secure a player or two like that, the rest becomes much easier. Where does instilling a culture of hard work get a bunch of stiffs who won't be with the organization in a couple of years?

 

[NYR Viper]

I would think Beleskey, when he comes back, will be loaned to Hartford for conditioning before being waived.

 

[Off Sides]

Listen, I'm all for this...eventually. If the Rangers weren't always looking to take shortcuts, which has been a hallmark ever since I started watching them 30 years ago, this would be a 3-5 year process. I could be completely wrong, but I don't think we have a future superstar within the organization. If you can secure a player or two like that, the rest becomes much easier. Where does instilling a culture of hard work get a bunch of stiffs who won't be with the organization in a couple of years?

I was just trying to point out what the Rangers seem to be thinking.

All the young prospects should be in the AHL, they should have been there from the start, that includes Chytil, Howden, and Georgiev in my option.

Use the NHL time to try to develop DeAngelo, Pionk, Lettieri, Buch

Get the vets who have or may have some trade value (not Staal) going the best they can unless that means they are taking time away from DeAngelo, Pionk, Lettieri, Buch

Try from now until the deadline to sell the vets they are not moving forward with, also sell whoever out of DeAngelo, Pionk, Lettieri, Buch they do not want to go forward with.

 

[Ghost of jas]

lol i didn't even realize how bad of a pace that is until seeing your post and doing the math. that would be the worst record most recent years, easily bottom 3

Add in that this team has yet to win in regulation.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Seven games in with no regulation wins and suddenly this team is too good to finish bottom three...alrighty then.

 

[Inferno]

If they are better, maybe it is due to the way that Quinn has them playing and the goaltending of Hekne? Should they just put him on waivers? Or maybe demote Howden, bench Kreider? What should they have done or what do you believe they should be doing?

Nothing. Observation does not equal Judgement.

I probably would have moved hayes and zucc at the draft..and I wouldn't have traded for McQuaid...but I also see the value in having vets guide the kids.

 

[RGY]

Seven games in with no regulation wins and suddenly this is too good to finish bottom three...alrighty then.

I mean to be fair they have played well against good competition in those 7 games. Pretty much all of those games could have gone either way.

 

[Inferno]

Seven games in with no regulation wins and suddenly this is too good to finish bottom three...alrighty then.

They could easily have 3 or 4 more points with any puck luck and better reffing.

I think it's inarguable that they are playing a better system than last season...and for all of that.... zibanejad, Hayes, namestnikov, spooner, zucc, georgiev, buchnevich, chytil and shattenkirk have been anywhere from mediocre to abysmal....
..most of our top players have struggled...that's not going to stay true for the whole season, just lolike they won't be as healthy as they currently are...theres going to be upstairs and downstairs..but they're playing a style of hockey that will keep them in most games...and Henrik has been spectacular.

So yeah...I just don't see this being a bottom 3 team until the the t.d.l passes...then all bets are off

 

[Irishguy42]

 

[Ghost of jas]

They could easily have 3 or 4 more points with any puck luck and better reffing.

I think it's inarguable that they are playing a better system than last season...and for all of that.... zibanejad, Hayes, namestnikov, spooner, zucc, georgiev, buchnevich, chytil and shattenkirk have been anywhere from mediocre to abysmal....
..most of our top players have struggled...that's not going to stay true for the whole season, just lolike they won't be as healthy as they currently are...theres going to be upstairs and downstairs..but they're playing a style of hockey that will keep them in most games...and Henrik has been spectacular.

So yeah...I just don't see this being a bottom 3 team until the the t.d.l passes...then all bets are off

You are what you’re record says you are. They could but they didn’t...the annual story of bad teams.

 

[silverfish]

You are what you’re record says you are. They could but they didn’t...the annual story of bad teams.

Over 82 games, sure. Over 7? No.

 

[True Blue]

I probably would have moved hayes and zucc at the draft..and I wouldn't have traded for McQuaid...but I also see the value in having vets guide the kids.

I think that the latter cannot be understated. As we have seen around the league, you cannot just ice a bunch of kids and become champions. Kids need the mentors to show them how to act.

Hayes & Zucc? It all depends on what Gorton believes the highest value will be.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Over 82 games, sure. Over 7? No.

Exactly...so you agree that this team is not suddenly better then a bottom five team because they have been competitive so far.

 

[True Blue]

1. Guys like Hayes and Zuccarello (and maybe more) should have been traded at the draft/in the off-season. What purpose do they serve? Their trade values may have been higher back then and, most importantly, their presence in the lineup can be the different between drafting 2nd and drafting 7th.

Unless Gorton believes that their value would be maximized during the season as teams assess what they need. Or other teams become desperate. Their purpose may be to have more value later as opposed to earlier. And there is still the possibility that the Rangers bring back Hayes.

2. Why do we have these teetering veterans littered throughout the lineup? McQuaid, Spooner, Namestikov, McLeod - the list goes on. Why are they here? Kids should be in their spots? And if the kids aren't ready, AHL'ers should be in the lineup.

Perhaps in the case of Spooner or Namestikov, Gorton wanted to see if they can take further steps in their development and become a part of the solution. McQuaid can serve as a mentor for young defensemen. And begin to transition from a marshmallow soft team to something more of what Quinn and Gorton envision. Mcleod can be that from the 4th line without wasting one of the youngsters on the 4th line. The kids that they have not deemed to be ready are already in the AHL.

This is, to quote Gorton, an "on the fly" rebuild. As Rangerboy alluded, there needs to be a of short-term pain to gain that long-term success. The Rangers will continue to toil in mediocrity if nothing changes.

Gorton used a term. It does not appear that anything is happening on the fly.

 

[Off Sides]

What if all the kids were in the AHL for this season? Is the AHL not mentoring the kids?

Why use the NHL as a development tool for 19-20-21 year olds this season? What's the rush?

Post the trade deadline, sure use the NHL for development of those who are ready, but why do so to start the season?