Roster Building Thread - Part XII(Training Camp/Preseason)

zlev · 2024-10-03T11:32:35-0400

McRanger92 said:
The most recent sample size we have (ECF against Florida) shows that an adjustment can be made.

But as I said it belies a bigger issue with the team in which they stick to what is comfortable for veteran players who have been unable to get us over the hump. I almost hope Panarin misses some time so we can see some changes. He's a strong Ewing Theory candidate as it pertains to the 5v5 play imo.

what's the Ewing Theory? that he's far and away our best player at 5v5 and him being out will make the team substantially worse at 5v5? then yea that's what's gonna happen.

bhamill · 2024-10-03T11:32:54-0400

Machinehead said:
The only gaslighting is telling people that our powerplay isn't good.

We've also been warned over and over that every powerplay goes cold over a marathon tournament and that it shouldn't be relied on.

I'm all for changing things that aren't working. I haven't seen an argument with any statistical basis that the powerplay hasn't been working. Just a vibe of "wow, I'm disappointed the powerplay didn't save a bottom half of the league 5v5 team."

We went 2 for 25 over the last 10 games of the post season... That is WAY beyond expecting the PP to bail out a bad 5v5 team that lost all but game 1 of the FL series by ONE goal... If they had scored at even a pretty bad 20%... whole different story.
It's NOT gaslighting to say PP1 failed us miserably. 8%... Come on.
And again, saying we need options is not saying PP1 is no good. LONG HAUL it is VERY good... It's merely ADMITTING that they go stone cold at times. Regular season you can ride that out. Post season you can't. The last two post seasons demonstrated that. I'd prefer to have options going into this years post season... Yes our 5v5 needs a lot of improvement, but the bottom line is that 5v5 SCORING (no matter how we LOOKED 5v5) pretty much kept pace with FL. It's our PP that tanked on the scoreboard. There's no law saying we can't have options for the PP AND improve 5v5 as well. There's no mutual exclusivity.

bhamill · 2024-10-03T11:37:46-0400

TominNC said:
The adjustment is that Fox is now healthy again. Other than the statistical probabilities that have been discussed in detail, the single most likely reason for the PP have a stale period was Fox being injured. Switching Laf in for Mika wasn’t fixing that.

Not a bad point about Fox, though mobility isn't the biggest issue on PP1, they barely move out of formation. So what about the Devils series? Was Fox hurt then too?
It's better to have options and not need them, than need options and not have them. Its a pretty basic concept.

IDvsEGO · 2024-10-03T11:39:07-0400

https://x.com/i/web/status/1841864198835311072

lavi is on this board and reading my posts -confirmed

McRanger92 · 2024-10-03T11:40:38-0400

chosen said:
The most successful part of the team must be changed!!!!!!!!!!!

The PP is predictable against teams that actually know how to kill penalties. I dont care that they go 3/5 against Columbus on a Tuesday in January. Playoff opponents have a lifetime worth of tape on us. The Canes and Panthers both adjusted and we had no answers because we only tried it one way for 100+ games. No need to spaz out over it. Shouldnt the team be making attempts to find new wrinkles? Or keep doing the same shit? They won't even change up the even strength lines, man. Look up the definition of insanity.

Kravtsov420 · 2024-10-03T12:09:43-0400

IDvsEGO said:
https://x.com/i/web/status/1841864198835311072

lavi is on this board and reading my posts -confirmed

Bern is Lavi #Confirmed

IDvsEGO · 2024-10-03T12:11:04-0400

Kravtsov420 said:
Bern is Lavi #Confirmed

I’ve never felt more insulted in my life.

Machinehead · 2024-10-03T12:13:48-0400

bhamill said:
We went 2 for 25 over the last 10 games of the post season... That is WAY beyond expecting the PP to bail out a bad 5v5 team that lost all but game 1 of the FL series by ONE goal... If they had scored at even a pretty bad 20%... whole different story.
It's NOT gaslighting to say PP1 failed us miserably. 8%... Come on.
And again, saying we need options is not saying PP1 is no good. LONG HAUL it is VERY good... It's merely ADMITTING that they go stone cold at times. Regular season you can ride that out. Post season you can't. The last two post seasons demonstrated that. I'd prefer to have options going into this years post season... Yes our 5v5 needs a lot of improvement, but the bottom line is that 5v5 SCORING (no matter how we LOOKED 5v5) pretty much kept pace with FL. It's our PP that tanked on the scoreboard. There's no law saying we can't have options for the PP AND improve 5v5 as well. There's no mutual exclusivity.

They went 10 for 25 right before that.

The powerplay is the only reason we didn't beat Washington in 7 and then lose to Carolina in 5.

You can't just ignore the part where they clicked. Powerplays run hot and cold. People said that exact thing would happen before it happened, because it always happens.

All told, it was 12 for 50. That's 24% which would rank them top 6 in the NHL.

Did you expect them to go over 30% the whole playoffs? We're trying to avoid a natural conclusion. Hell, in 2022, they did go over 30% the whole playoffs with the same personnel. They still got eliminated in the same game.

80shockeywasbuns · 2024-10-03T12:17:53-0400

Machinehead said:
They went 10 for 25 right before that.

The powerplay is the only reason we didn't beat Washington in 7 and then lose to Carolina in 5.

You can't just ignore the part where they clicked. Powerplays run hot and cold. People said that exact thing would happen before it happened, because it always happens.

All told, it was 12 for 50. That's 24% which would rank them top 6 in the NHL.

Did you expect them to go over 30% the whole playoffs? We're trying to avoid a natural conclusion. Hell, in 2022, they did go over 30% the whole playoffs with the same personnel. They still got eliminated in the same game.

They should be trying to be literally #1 in the league though given how shit their 5v5 is. And watching the games, it’s pretty clear Mika is the weak link when they face strong PKs especially repeatedly in the playoffs.

Machinehead · 2024-10-03T12:18:52-0400

80shockeywasbuns said:
They should be trying to be literally #1 in the league though given how shit their 5v5 is. And watching the games, it’s pretty clear Mika is the weak link when they face strong PKs especially repeatedly in the playoffs.

Or...or...

Hear me out...

Don't be a f***ing bad team that needs a 36% powerplay to win.

Machinehead · 2024-10-03T12:20:21-0400

Also. like, powerplays are gonna tend to get worse as the playoffs go along.

Good teams that are seeing you play 7 times are going to shut down your powerplay.

Florida's powerplay was 15 for 81 and they won the Cup.

IDvsEGO · 2024-10-03T12:24:14-0400

80shockeywasbuns said:
They should be trying to be literally #1 in the league though given how shit their 5v5 is. And watching the games, it’s pretty clear Mika is the weak link when they face strong PKs especially repeatedly in the playoffs.

Did you miss the part where Fox was injured?
Because the rest of us saw him playing on one leg.

McRanger92 · 2024-10-03T12:28:05-0400

Machinehead said:
Or...or...

Hear me out...

Don't be a f***ing bad team that needs a 36% powerplay to win.

Doesnt appear they are making changes to fix that either

IDvsEGO · 2024-10-03T12:32:37-0400

McRanger92 said:
Doesnt appear they are making changes to fix that either

i mean adding
Chytil , Jones, edstrom to our lineup is immediately a major upgrade from our regular season opener from last year.
There’s the shrinking hope that Kakko takes a Laf sized jump as well.

bhamill · 2024-10-03T12:34:08-0400

Machinehead said:
They went 10 for 25 right before that.

The powerplay is the only reason we didn't beat Washington in 7 and then lose to Carolina in 5.

You can't just ignore the part where they clicked. Powerplays run hot and cold. People said that exact thing would happen before it happened, because it always happens.

All told, it was 12 for 50. That's 24% which would rank them top 6 in the NHL.

Did you expect them to go over 30% the whole playoffs? We're trying to avoid a natural conclusion. Hell, in 2022, they did go over 30% the whole playoffs with the same personnel. They still got eliminated in the same game.

Yes, they were hot. I have NOT ignored that. And then they weren't. They were ice cold for 10 games and we got bounced. That's the whole point. I'm not arguing they suck, and need to be blown up. I've said explicitly that they are VERY good over the long haul. But I'm ALSO saying we would be wise to have alternatives/options. Regular season you ride out 10 bad games. No I didn't expect them to go 30% over the whole playoffs. But its not the WHOLE playoffs that matters. It's series by series that matters. You can go 100% for two series. That helps you ZERO in the third series if you then go 8%. Sure its nice you were probably like 60% over the playoffs. Going 8% in a series likely gets you a ticket home. Doesn't matter how good you were in the previous series. They can tell everyone on the golf course "But we were over 60% on the PP overall." I'm not satisfied with that. Can't speak for you.

80shockeywasbuns · 2024-10-03T12:39:34-0400

bhamill said:
Yes, they were hot. I have NOT ignored that. And then they weren't. They were ice cold for 10 games and we got bounced. That's the whole point. I'm not arguing they suck, and need to be blown up. I've said explicitly that they are VERY good over the long haul. But I'm ALSO saying we would be wise to have alternatives/options. Regular season you ride out 10 bad games. No I didn't expect them to go 30% over the whole playoffs. But its not the WHOLE playoffs that matters. It's series by series that matters. You can go 100% for two series. That helps you ZERO in the third series if you then go 8%. Sure its nice you were probably like 60% over the playoffs. Going 8% in a series likely gets you a ticket home. Doesn't matter how good you were in the previous series. They can tell everyone on the golf course "But we were over 60% on the PP overall." I'm not satisfied with that. Can't speak for you.

Sometimes you really do just go cold while generating the same looks as always. Other times you have Mika Zibanejad just repeatedly handing the other team the puck

McRanger92 · 2024-10-03T12:40:58-0400

IDvsEGO said:
i mean adding
Chytil , Jones, edstrom to our lineup is immediately a major upgrade from our regular season opener from last year.
There’s the shrinking hope that Kakko takes a Laf sized jump as well.

Let's see if Chytil can keep his head up long enough to make it through the season. And Jones and Edstrom I like enough but they are borderline NHLers until they prove otherwise. You have more patience than me if you're expecting anything more than a 40 point season from Kakko.

Switch up the lines for real, and start playing with some directness and anger, and then maybe I will believe the outcome will be different. The preseason is the preseason but it hasn't shown me that they are really trying anything new.

bernmeister · 2024-10-03T12:47:41-0400

NYRFANMANI said:
Did any of you ever Google @bernmeister?

It's awesome.

thanks

reminder -- my academic and entertainment intellectual property is available for purchase.

IDvsEGO · 2024-10-03T12:50:09-0400

McRanger92 said:
Let's see if Chytil can keep his head up long enough to make it through the season. And Jones and Edstrom I like enough but they are borderline NHLers until they prove otherwise. You have more patience than me if you're expecting anything more than a 40 point season from Kakko.

Switch up the lines for real, and start playing with some directness and anger, and then maybe I will believe the outcome will be different. The preseason is the preseason but it hasn't shown me that they are really trying anything new.

A 40 point season from the 3rd line? You realize that’s a very good year if he’s kept to under 15 minutes a game.
If he’s on that pace I’d push him to the first line and give him 17 minutes and see what happens.
Laf got 57 points on the panarin line with 17 minutes per game.

kovazub94 · 2024-10-03T12:50:59-0400

TominNC said:
The adjustment is that Fox is now healthy again. Other than the statistical probabilities that have been discussed in detail, the single most likely reason for the PP have a stale period was Fox being injured. Switching Laf in for Mika wasn’t fixing that.

Exactly. And I want to see seriously see opinions on the choice between injured Fox and any other D available (in previous post I mentioned Jones but he wasn't even dressed to be a viable option).

bernmeister · 2024-10-03T12:51:00-0400

Kravtsov420 said:
Bern is Lavi #Confirmed

bern neither admits nor denies his secret identity, if he has one

IDvsEGO said:
I’ve never felt more insulted in my life.

never say never

Machinehead · 2024-10-03T12:51:13-0400

McRanger92 said:
Doesnt appear they are making changes to fix that either

I agree with you on that.

kovazub94 · 2024-10-03T12:53:00-0400

IDvsEGO said:
A 40 point season from the 3rd line? You realize that’s a very good year if he’s kept to under 15 minutes a game.
If he’s on that pace I’d push him to the first line and give him 17 minutes and see what happens.

Eh, depends on how R Smith is doing with Mika and Kreider. There's a very strong possibility IMO that he's exactly what's needed on that line.

IDvsEGO · 2024-10-03T12:55:25-0400

kovazub94 said:
Eh, depends on how R Smith is doing with Mika and Kreider. There's a very strong possibility IMO that he's exactly what's needed on that line.

I’m iffy on smith. I think he’s a player who could slide up and down the lineup without much concern.
I might want to see Laf pushed up, and then smith down with Panarin.

kovazub94 · 2024-10-03T12:55:58-0400

IDvsEGO said:
https://x.com/i/web/status/1841864198835311072

lavi is on this board and reading my posts -confirmed

I'm really interested to see this structure and puck movement.

Roster Building Thread - Part XII(Training Camp/Preseason)

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