Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XI: We can read between the lines

[mas0764]

Two options in my mind:

1. Focus on this year and acquire Galchenyuk/Shipachyov/both.
2. Focus on next year and trade Nash/Zucc/both.

I'll take option 2.

 

[trilobyte]

Talbot and Raanta did a great job. I think we got a bit spoiled, but lets give Pavelec more time before declaring him a failure. Geez.
This team will look very different this time next season. This season is going to involve some pain and some demands on patience.
The one thing that cannot be permitted is for the team to play like shit the way they have. They are lost out there. That has to be fixed.

 

[bernmeister]

all that and you can't throw us an nhl backup in one of those?

maybe try McIlrath there, might be his only chance at being an NHLer

The whole point, which everyone else apparently recognized, is to develop a backup from within. We have BA for coach, we have guys in varying degrees of qualification. Take the 2 most qualified and have them compete for Hank's backup. Pav + Howard, sell off for picks.
We don't need a vet backup.
We need to give GMJG more picks, esp since the win now crowd overreached previously. C'mon, tell me I'm wrong on that, too.

 

[Hire Sather]

Thanks PB for posting this; now I know who to yell at.
Hey, Tom Urtz Jr. - I see you 'wonder'ing without any acknowledgment that Kreider is NOT being moved without MASSIVE overpayment.
Propaganda like yours is not constructive.

And further, stop empowering AV.
He's a total idiot.
In a power conflict between the 2, AV goes and Kreider stays
Book it.
GMJG knows what he is doing and the 1-2 people over him hopefully are not stupid enough to override him.

Yeah, HIS propaganda is the problem.

 

[Hire Sather]

The whole point, which everyone else apparently recognized, is to develop a backup from within. We have BA for coach, we have guys in varying degrees of qualification. Take the 2 most qualified and have them compete for Hank's backup. Pav + Howard, sell off for picks.
We don't need a vet backup.
We need to give GMJG more picks, esp since the win now crowd overreached previously. C'mon, tell me I'm wrong on that, too.

Nobody recognized anything, they just gloss over your garbage.. I can't help myself.

You are wrong on everything you post, every proposal is totally unrealistic and irrational and never have any chance in hell of happening in the real world.

You said in the past that you wanted to move on from Staal and Girardi before they fell apart. It may have been the right idea (although I wouldn't give up the runs we had with them to have draft picks instead) but you never proposed anything that was anywhere close to realistic.

You referenced a Staal, Girardi, someone else I can't remember but he was an NHLer for Taylor Hall proposal. Total garbage, not realistic in the least.

 

[Avery16]

The question was never about cuts, but sure. No argument there.

But yeah, based on the eye and production test, he ranked sixth out of the rookies I saw.

And if you don’t want to count ADA because he played 40 NHL games last year, and we want to go with straight up NHL rookie rules and not HF prospect standards, that’s cool.

And if you don’t want to count Pionk because he plays defense, or Andersson because he was cut the same day, or Lettieri because he’s a wing, that’s fine too.

Clearly you like him, or at least thought he showed more this preseason than I and others did. That’s awesome.

[Shrugs] What am I gonna do?

You said he didn’t stand out in preseason.
I said how could one of the very last cuts not have been a standout.
You said he was outplayed by no fewer than five rookies.
However- one of those (a defenseman) isn’t a rookie. And three others were cut the same day (including another defenseman). You’re left with one rookie, who played two games and then was sent down also.
You can have a conversation (probably with yourself) over what players-in different positions-stood out over another. I don’t see how useful a comparison that is, since a F isn’t in competition with a D. I was was making an objective point, but maybe that was my original mistake. I’ve learned my lesson.

 

[bernmeister]

Nobody recognized anything, they just gloss over your garbage.. I can't help myself.

You are wrong on everything you post, every proposal is totally unrealistic and irrational and never have any chance in hell of happening in the real world.

You said in the past that you wanted to move on from Staal and Girardi before they fell apart. It may have been the right idea (although I wouldn't give up the runs we had with them to have draft picks instead) but you never proposed anything that was anywhere close to realistic.

You referenced a Staal, Girardi, someone else I can't remember but he was an NHLer for Taylor Hall proposal. Total garbage, not realistic in the least.

Stepan was who you could not remember. He and the wonder twins back in the day could have gotten Hall in his first or second year.

Totally realistic overpayment that would have worked. It seemed outrageous then, but it was the correct play.

So much for my being always wrong.

 

[Edge]

You said he didn’t stand out in preseason.
I said how could one of the very last cuts not have been a standout.
You said he was outplayed by no fewer than five rookies.
However- one of those (a defenseman) isn’t a rookie. And three others were cut the same day (including another defenseman). You’re left with one rookie, who played two games and then was sent down also.
You can have a conversation (probably with yourself) over what players-in different positions-stood out over another. I don’t see how useful a comparison that is, since a F isn’t in competition with a D. I was was making an objective point, but maybe that was my original mistake. I’ve learned my lesson.

So all players cut the same day played exactly equal? There’s nothing to distinguish their play beyond when they were cut.

And no, being a late cut does not necessarily make someone a standout performer for me, because there are a variety of factors that could be taken into account as to when and why a player is cut. Heck we can make that argument for a bunch of guys who’ve made Ranger teams in the past, which is to say nothing about those who were cut later in the process.

And yes, if you want to go by the NHL ruling, ADA doesn’t count as a rookie. We can ignore his status as a prospect and we can ignore the fact that he’s younger than Nieves and we can ignore that he hasn’t played a full NHL season. If symentacs elevates what Nieves did, sure - we can go for it.

You seem to want to debate the issue and that’s somewhat hard when I need a checklist of the qualifiers.

We don’t count ADA because for the sake of the counterpoint we’re going to go with the literal NHL interpretation of the NHL rookie rule. The bottom line is that he is NOT elieigble for the Calder and therefore we just won’t count him. Doesn’t matter that he’s younger and considered a prospect. Get it outta here.

We don’t count Pionk, because he’s a defenseman. That has no bearing on a team that decided to carry an extra defenseman rather than a center (aka the position Nieves plays). Nope, completely irrelevant. And even then, we’ll ignore the previous request to name five rookies that played better than Nieves. Doesn’t count now that more than one memeber was able to do it without blinking an eye. Nope. Dismissed.

Andersson doesn’t count because he was cut the same day. We’re also going to ignore all reports that it was Anderson the team was debating about keeping and not Nieves. We’ll also avoid the “eye test” or the box scores. Too unreliable. Can’t be trusted.

Lettieri doesn’t count because... I think I am fuzzy on this one. Is it because he plays wing, or it is because of when he was cut, or both? I really need to write these rules down. It gets hard to keep track of, know what I mean? Of course you do. You know, that I know, that you know, that I know that you know. Ya know?

Chytil counts, but he’s since been demoted, so we’re already angling for a way to throw that one out.

But even with all those qualifiers, which pretty much renders this conversation about as purposeful as debating which president is featured on the three dollar bill, we still haven’t exactly addressed what Nieves did that was standout(ish) or was hailed as standout-like in the preseason.

I can recall chatter about how underwhelming his performance at the time was. I can recall there being debated about whether Andersson and chytil were both going to make the team. I can recall Lettieri earning noticeable praise, but I’m struggling to recall any real noteworthy Nieves moments.

I’m looking back at my own recollections and similarly finding nothing.

Looking for reports or comments from the team talking about him having a strong showing. Still not really seeing it.

But, I will concede, he was a later cut. Clearly it HAD to have been standout play. Couldn’t have been average play combined with a glaring lack of depth at center that meant all the young centers were going to get an extended look.

So, by default, are all late cuts by nature standouts?

Hmmm...

Yikes, just had a vision of Tanner Glass and Brent Fedyk dancing through my head like really bad sugar plum fairies. Trust me, totally cringe worthy.

So, circling back, in the four preseason games that Nieves played, what was it that stood out? Was it the one assist? The minus 3? The shutdown presence he provided? Or the intangibles?

And again, I believe we were originally focusing on just preseason. But I could be wrong. Memories of Tanner Glass do a lot to hurt the brain.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Non sequitur.

Was supposed to say you brag when your idea was NOT a 100% failure. I can't edit it for some reason. Either way, it's pretty tough to read posts from a guy that not only posts outlandish things that make no sense 99% of the time but also then brags when one player that he likes plays well for a game or two. Perfect marriage of arrogance and ignorance.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers are 3-7-2.

Las Vegas on Tuesday. Vegas plays the Islanders on Monday. Which game is Dansk playing?

13 games in October. 10 at home. 3 on the road.

Elliotte Friedman said Edmonton is looking for wingers and he brought up Kreider. The hockey analytics guy Dom thought the Oilers would suck this season. I would take the Oilers 1st rounder in 2018. Will Edmonton be a playoff team? That pick will be a potential lottery pick. CMD is great. Leon is coming off a concussion. Their D is sketchy. No Sekera until December. Talbot had a great season last year. The Oilers have nothing else except that pick in 2018. Overpriced contracts.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

The Rangers are 3-7-2.

Las Vegas on Tuesday. Vegas plays the Islanders on Monday. Which game is Dansk playing?

13 games in October. 10 at home. 3 on the road.

Elliotte Friedman said Edmonton is looking for wingers and he brought up Kreider. The hockey analytics guy Dom thought the Oilers would suck this season. I would take the Oilers 1st rounder in 2018. Will Edmonton be a playoff team? That pick will be a potential lottery pick. CMD is great. Leon is coming off a concussion. Their D is sketchy. No Sekera until December. Talbot had a great season last year. The Oilers have nothing else except that pick in 2018. Overpriced contracts.

Puljujarvi maybe

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

fresh meat:
1. Nash 7.8 exp reduced half = 3.9 + Grabner 1.65 exp + Gettinger 736,667 x 3 elc + NYR 2018 2nd = 6.286,667 cap
for
Puljujarvi .925 x 3+ conditional EDM 2018 1st + cap dump Fayne 3.625 expiring = 4.55 cap
1.736,667 cap add to Oil/savings to Rangers. Oiler 1st conditional on measured production.
Edm gets 2 guys who had 50 gs total last year, at no cost of assets currently on roster. With or without EDM 2018 1st, Pulji is a valued add prospect.
2. Smith 4.35 x 4, reduced almost half by 2.15 to 2.2, + Puljujarvi .925 x 3, + LD Alexei Bereglazov .925 = 2.175 + 1.85 = 5.35 total cap hit
for
Heiskanen .925 x 3 elc + Pitlick 1.0 + expiring cap dump Hamhuis 3.75 = 5.475
.885 cap add to Rangers/savings to Stars
While Heskanen surrender hurts, Stars get F drafted comparable position upgrade Pitlick, plus reduced Smith to replace Hamhuis, + Bereglazov, which helps current/future D depth. NYR get replacement for McD.
3. McD 4.7 x 2+ Zuc 4.5 x 2 + Andersson .925 x 3 + NYR 2020 1st = 9.15 cap
for
MacKinnon 6.3 x 6 cap + Colorado 2018 2nd
2.85 cap add to Avs/savings to Rangers
Avs get what is = to 5 firsts + value for top F. NYR overpay to bookend MacK w/Kreider.
4 DeAngelo 863,333 x 2 elc + Kampfer 650 x 2 + Sproul .625 x/RFA exp + NYR 2019 2nd = 2.138,333 cap
for
Sam Reinhart 894,167 expiring elc w/RFA + acceptable cap dunp Falk ,65 exp + Buf 2018 4th = 1.544,167
594,166 cap add to Sabres/savings to Rangers
Sabes can consider Reinhart surplus, and need RD, which they get here w/pick upgrade. Rangers get 2C
5. Staal 5.7 x 4 + Desharnais 1.0 + to Detroit and Rangers 2019 5th [total cap = 6.7]
for
Howard 5.291,667 x 2 + Helm at half reduced 3.85 to 1.925 + McIlrath .65 and Wings’ 2018 2nd [= total cap 7.866,667]
1.166,667 cap add to Rangers/savings to Red Wings
DRW get cap space, Staal playing well but they can buyout at favorable terms if necessary. NY moves NMC Staal [who accepts to get closer to home and avoid buyout] taking on cap for more manageable pieces and pick upgrade.
5. Pitlick 1.0 x 3 + Gropp 802,500 x 3 + Zborovsky .728,333 x 3 + Colorado 2018 2nd + DRW 2018 2nd + cap dump Helm [effectively] 1.925 x 4 = [4.430833 total cap]
to Canadiens for
Galchenyuk 4.9 x 3 [= 4.9 total cap]
569,167 cap add to Canadiens/savings to Rangers
Galy has higher potential but is playing bottom 6, believed due to coach conflict. 2 Fs who crack the lineup now, good prospect D, 2 2nd rounders bet. 32-50. NY gets potential
6. Buchenvich elc .925 x 2 + Fast 1.85 x 3 + Galchenyuk 4.9 x 3 + NYR 2019 1st
[= 7.675 cap]
for
McAvoy 916,667 x 2 and expiring cap dump(s) Chara 4.0 + Spooner 2.825
[= 7.741667 cap]
66,667 cap add to Canadiens/savings to Rangers
Bruins wince but say yes; 2 Fs to help Pasta, + solid 2 way W, + a 1st
Rangers swap F youth for RD
8 Howard to Vegas for a pick
MAF is out; Golden Knights want exp starter not long term.
9 Pavlec to Pitt for a pick
Penguins reportedly want stop gap.
10 move Holden, Hamhuis, Spooner for pick as rental also Chara if he prefers
let Fayne walk
next year
Kreider-Nieves-MacKinnon
Miller-Reinhart- Zib
Chytil - Hayes - Vesey
Leedahl - Lettieri - Fontaine

Skjei McAvoy
Heiskanen Shattenkirk
Graves Pionk
Day McIlrath
Gilmour/Pedrie
Hank-committee (Halverson/Georgiev/Hulska/Wall, etc. awaiting Shesty)

1. Puljujarvi only has 1 year left after this season on his ELC
2. Teams won't trade for a player of his caliber just to "flip him" in a 2nd trade
3. McIlrath... Really? We have enough AHL D-men already. Thanks
4. There it is. The magical Nieves centering MacKinnon and Kreider. Out of this world ridiculous
5. Zibanejad, who is not a RW.
6. DeAngelo, Kampfer, Sproul and a 2nd for Reinhart and a 4th? What are you smoking?
7. Leedahl is, at best, a 3rd line player in Hartford. You want him on our 4th line? I love the kid. I saw him play in Everett but he doesn't have what it takes to play in the NHL.

Somehow, this team is worse than what we have now. Bravo.

 

[Mikos87]

The Rangers are 3-7-2.

Las Vegas on Tuesday. Vegas plays the Islanders on Monday. Which game is Dansk playing?

13 games in October. 10 at home. 3 on the road.

Elliotte Friedman said Edmonton is looking for wingers and he brought up Kreider. The hockey analytics guy Dom thought the Oilers would suck this season. I would take the Oilers 1st rounder in 2018. Will Edmonton be a playoff team? That pick will be a potential lottery pick. CMD is great. Leon is coming off a concussion. Their D is sketchy. No Sekera until December. Talbot had a great season last year. The Oilers have nothing else except that pick in 2018. Overpriced contracts.

Kreider to EDM is an over the top move for them. If Chris actually skates hard... next to McDavid... that's going to drive defenses crazy. I thought about this just the other day, it would be a good move for the Rangers to move on.

PuJu has good potential... but he's maybe another year-2 away... the game he plays... he needs to fill out to be effective. Also the knock on Puju is that he doesn't engage on the walls. Size, speed, skill is there. It's better to take the 4th overall from 2016 plus package Kreider with defensemen to get picks from them.

 

[eco's bones]

fresh meat:
1. Nash 7.8 exp reduced half = 3.9 + Grabner 1.65 exp + Gettinger 736,667 x 3 elc + NYR 2018 2nd = 6.286,667 cap
for
Puljujarvi .925 x 3+ conditional EDM 2018 1st + cap dump Fayne 3.625 expiring = 4.55 cap
1.736,667 cap add to Oil/savings to Rangers. Oiler 1st conditional on measured production.
Edm gets 2 guys who had 50 gs total last year, at no cost of assets currently on roster. With or without EDM 2018 1st, Pulji is a valued add prospect.
2. Smith 4.35 x 4, reduced almost half by 2.15 to 2.2, + Puljujarvi .925 x 3, + LD Alexei Bereglazov .925 = 2.175 + 1.85 = 5.35 total cap hit
for
Heiskanen .925 x 3 elc + Pitlick 1.0 + expiring cap dump Hamhuis 3.75 = 5.475
.885 cap add to Rangers/savings to Stars
While Heskanen surrender hurts, Stars get F drafted comparable position upgrade Pitlick, plus reduced Smith to replace Hamhuis, + Bereglazov, which helps current/future D depth. NYR get replacement for McD.
3. McD 4.7 x 2+ Zuc 4.5 x 2 + Andersson .925 x 3 + NYR 2020 1st = 9.15 cap
for
MacKinnon 6.3 x 6 cap + Colorado 2018 2nd
2.85 cap add to Avs/savings to Rangers
Avs get what is = to 5 firsts + value for top F. NYR overpay to bookend MacK w/Kreider.
4 DeAngelo 863,333 x 2 elc + Kampfer 650 x 2 + Sproul .625 x/RFA exp + NYR 2019 2nd = 2.138,333 cap
for
Sam Reinhart 894,167 expiring elc w/RFA + acceptable cap dunp Falk ,65 exp + Buf 2018 4th = 1.544,167
594,166 cap add to Sabres/savings to Rangers
Sabes can consider Reinhart surplus, and need RD, which they get here w/pick upgrade. Rangers get 2C
5. Staal 5.7 x 4 + Desharnais 1.0 + to Detroit and Rangers 2019 5th [total cap = 6.7]
for
Howard 5.291,667 x 2 + Helm at half reduced 3.85 to 1.925 + McIlrath .65 and Wings’ 2018 2nd [= total cap 7.866,667]
1.166,667 cap add to Rangers/savings to Red Wings
DRW get cap space, Staal playing well but they can buyout at favorable terms if necessary. NY moves NMC Staal [who accepts to get closer to home and avoid buyout] taking on cap for more manageable pieces and pick upgrade.
5. Pitlick 1.0 x 3 + Gropp 802,500 x 3 + Zborovsky .728,333 x 3 + Colorado 2018 2nd + DRW 2018 2nd + cap dump Helm [effectively] 1.925 x 4 = [4.430833 total cap]
to Canadiens for
Galchenyuk 4.9 x 3 [= 4.9 total cap]
569,167 cap add to Canadiens/savings to Rangers
Galy has higher potential but is playing bottom 6, believed due to coach conflict. 2 Fs who crack the lineup now, good prospect D, 2 2nd rounders bet. 32-50. NY gets potential
6. Buchenvich elc .925 x 2 + Fast 1.85 x 3 + Galchenyuk 4.9 x 3 + NYR 2019 1st
[= 7.675 cap]
for
McAvoy 916,667 x 2 and expiring cap dump(s) Chara 4.0 + Spooner 2.825
[= 7.741667 cap]
66,667 cap add to Canadiens/savings to Rangers
Bruins wince but say yes; 2 Fs to help Pasta, + solid 2 way W, + a 1st
Rangers swap F youth for RD
8 Howard to Vegas for a pick
MAF is out; Golden Knights want exp starter not long term.
9 Pavlec to Pitt for a pick
Penguins reportedly want stop gap.
10 move Holden, Hamhuis, Spooner for pick as rental also Chara if he prefers
let Fayne walk
next year
Kreider-Nieves-MacKinnon
Miller-Reinhart- Zib
Chytil - Hayes - Vesey
Leedahl - Lettieri - Fontaine

Skjei McAvoy
Heiskanen Shattenkirk
Graves Pionk
Day McIlrath
Gilmour/Pedrie
Hank-committee (Halverson/Georgiev/Hulska/Wall, etc. awaiting Shesty)

 

[RangerBoy]

Puljujarvi maybe

Is he the next Joel Armia?

He has 3 assists in 7 games in the AHL this season. This is the 4th pick overall in 2016. If Puljujarvi was a Rangers pick, this board would be in full meltdown.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Is he the next Joel Armia?

He has 3 assists in 7 games in the AHL this season. This is the 4th pick overall in 2016. If Puljujarvi was a Rangers pick, this board would be in full meltdown.

28 in 39 last year as an 18 year old is pretty f***ing solid though.

3 in 7 won't hold for him. Though falling behind Yamamoto on the depth chart is a bit of a red flag. Not taking anything way from Yamamoto, but you would think that was his spot to lose.

I'd want more back, but could definitely see him being the center piece in a trade.

 

[RangerBoy]

Filip Chytil is barely 18 years old and he has 8 points in 6 AHL games.

 

[Ola]

Kreider for Puljujarvi makes a lot of sense. Puljujarvi can replace Nash next season.

Kreider and Holden for Puljujarvi and Gryba.

At the deadline:
-Nash for a 1st. Nash was sick last night. He would get a 1st, potentially +. I like him less though since he is this much better a contract year...

-Brandon Smith for a 3rd.

-Keep Zucc.

At the summer:
-We make two more 1st round picks.

-Sign Jonathan Audrey Marchessault.

-Sign Jordan Nolan

-Buy out Staal

Lias-Ziba-Buch
Zucc-Chytil-Puljujarvi
Miller-Hayes-JAM
Nolan-Boo-Fast
McD-Gryba
Skjei-Shatty
Bereglazov/Graves-Pionk

 

[Avery16]

Filip Chytil is barely 18 years old and he has 8 points in 6 AHL games.

I think we’ll be seeing him back up sooner rather than later

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think we’ll be seeing him back up sooner rather than later

I hope not.

Don't touch him until the new year at the earliest. Keep him away from AV.

 

[RangerBoy]

28 in 39 last year as an 18 year old is pretty ****ing solid though.

3 in 7 won't hold for him. I don't think he alone is enough, but falling behind Yamamoto on the depth chart is a bit of a red flag. Not taking anything way from Yamamoto, but you would think that was his spot to lose.

The Rangers should send their entire front office and scouting staff to go look at Puljujarvi in Bakersfield,California.

There is a deal to be made with Edmonton because they need a winger.

 

[RangerBoy]

I think we’ll be seeing him back up sooner rather than later

Keep him away from this mess.

 

[Ori]

I don`t know anymore - it`s so hard to get any form or shape of production on daily basis. So let us see on tuesday against Vegas.

 

[Hire Sather]

Stepan was who you could not remember. He and the wonder twins back in the day could have gotten Hall in his first or second year.

Totally realistic overpayment that would have worked. It seemed outrageous then, but it was the correct play.

So much for my being always wrong.

You can argue if it was a good trade or not for our club, I personally would not have traded 3 young/prime guys for one at the time.

Regardless of whether it would've been a good trade for NYR, it was totally unrealistic for both teams and had NO CHANCE IN HELL of EVER happening, much like ALL of your proposals.

 

[hi]

Kreider for Yamamoto+ is something I could get behind