Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

[AirGut]

Buch value was not acknowledged by anyone in the league because he was on the block for months and the best offer GMs could come up with was Sammy Blais and a 2nd.

imo he had proven himself up to that point Drury just couldn't handle the asset properly.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Buch never had more than 48 points as a Ranger. Strome is just a guy.

What a misleading stat to use. His last 2 seasons as a Ranger when he was entering his prime were both Covid shortened seasons. He literally only had one season, his rookie season, where he didn't pace for 48 or more points in a season.
His seasons as a Ranger:
2017-18: 49pt pace
2018-19: 49pt pace
2019-20: 55pt pace
2020-21: 73pt pace

Since then 85, 87, 65

 

[effen]

Drury just couldn't handle the asset properly.

This seems kind of handwavy to me.

I find it the whole Buch disaster a lot more credible that other GMs tried lowballing and dropped the ball than Drury did by not manifesting a better offer through voodoo.

 

[NYR Viper]

There are ways to replenish the moldy and physicality that Trouba brings. Go sign Joshua. Edstrom needs to be a full time player. Sign Dillon. All three of those guys will be over or around 200 hits each. Cuylle will grow as well.

 

[effen]

What a misleading stat to use. His last 2 seasons as a Ranger when he was entering his prime were both Covid shortened seasons. He literally only had one season, his rookie season, where he didn't pace for 48 or more points in a season.
His seasons as a Ranger:
2017-18: 49pt pace
2018-19: 49pt pace
2019-20: 55pt pace
2020-21: 73pt pace

Since then 85, 87, 65

The guy I replied to said Buch had 70 points. He didn't.

 

[mike14]

I fail to see how Strome and Buch are that much worse than Tuch and Krebs. Buch scored 70 points.

It's all academic now, but Buch didn't score the 70 until after he left here, which was after the Eichel trade. As good as his 48 in 54 (0.88 ppg) season was, there were questions at the time as to how much of that was due to CK-Mika, and just how sustainable it all was.

Strome I don't think really had value at all; so you had Tuch who was a year younger, had just gone 33 in 44 (0.75ppg) and 1st round pedigree (which seems to matter more than it should) plus a young former 1st rounder in Krebs who at the time had a fair bit of upside and the picks
Buch was the best player of the group but the gap to Tuch wasn't been as that high at the time and Krebs would have been more attractive than Strome, plus our picks would have likely been later in the rounds or we would have had to add more

IMO Buffalo was right in taking the Vegas deal over ours, despite how it all turned out in the end

 

[mas0764]

It's all academic now, but Buch didn't score the 70 until after he left here, which was after the Eichel trade. As good as his 48 in 54 (0.88 ppg) season was, there were questions at the time as to how much of that was due to CK-Mika, and just how sustainable it all was.

Strome I don't think really had value at all; so you had Tuch who was a year younger, had just gone 33 in 44 (0.75ppg) and 1st round pedigree (which seems to matter more than it should) plus a young former 1st rounder in Krebs who at the time had a fair bit of upside and the picks
Buch was the best player of the group but the gap to Tuch wasn't been as that high at the time and Krebs would have been more attractive than Strome, plus our picks would have likely been later in the rounds or we would have had to add more

IMO Buffalo was right in taking the Vegas deal over ours, despite how it all turned out in the end

Strome got 5x5 from Anaheim, I don't think he had "no value at all." There were players with warts but Krebs was an unknown and Tuch had a career high of like 52 points as well.

I think there is a certain strain on here sometimes of like "silly NYRHF poster peons, they think they are playing an NHL video game and they overrate their own, look how smart I am by trashing every trade proposal as unrealistic."

Strome and Buch were not far off Tuch and Krebs at all. And depending on what a team wanted, Buch and Strome might have been a BETTER package actually.

Buch never had more than 48 points as a Ranger. Strome is just a guy.

I meant the second he left NYC he scored 70. 70+ actually. Buch scored 48 here but in a shortened season.

I think it's disingenuous to paint Tuch as substantially more valuable either then or now.

Strome is "just a guy," that got a clear cut top-6 contract from Anaheim and Krebs has a career high of like 26 points and is coming off 17 in 80. I don't think it's obvious that Strome isn't more valuable than Krebs even at the time of the trade.

 

[MrAlmost]

f***

Double f***

Wanted both Blueger and Lafferty.

 

[mike14]

Strome got 5x5 from Anaheim, I don't think he had "no value at all." There were players with warts but Krebs was an unknown and Tuch had a career high of like 52 points as well.

I think there is a certain strain on here sometimes of like "silly NYRHF poster peons, they think they are playing an NHL video game and they overrate their own, look how smart I am by trashing every trade proposal as unrealistic."

Strome and Buch were not far off Tuch and Krebs at all. And depending on what a team wanted, Buch and Strome might have been a BETTER package actually.



I meant the second he left NYC he scored 70. 70+ actually. Buch scored 48 here but in a shortened season.

I think it's disingenuous to paint Tuch as substantially more valuable either then or now.

Lucky I said Buch was the best player out of that group then!
I don't think the Vegas offer was vastly better, but IMO at the time there was greater value there for Buffalo than our rumoured offer, plus it also meant that if everything feel right Eichel wouldn't have a chance to knock them out of the playoffs at some point

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

How I would like the offseason to go:

Trouba to Utah for one of their 2nds: They literally don't have a single NHL defenseman signed for next year at this point. Trouba is a big name, and could draw some attention for new fans. As of right now, they're over 20M below the cap floor...

Lindgren's rights + 30OA to Vegas for Theodore.: Vegas is in a major Cap crunch, and just signed Hanifin to a long term deal. The writing is on the wall for Theodore. They add an NHL D and save some Cap in the process.

Sign Scheider to 3.5M X 3: This is the Lindgren deal adjusted for inflation.

Utah's 2nd + our 4th for Farabee: TBH I haven't the slightest idea of what fair value would be in this deal. He's a decent young player, but making 5M for the next 4 years. Would be a calculated risk.

Chytil & Kakko for Zegras: Ducks get 2 young players, save about 1M in the process. Might have to add in another prospect here.

This leaves us with ~7.6M to fill the remaining 2 spots. Plenty of ways to play it at this point, and I think this is where you see what's available on the UFA market.

Id love to see us pick up Sean Walker at 4M X 4
maybe aube-kubel @ 2M on a 1 year deal, Craig Smith?

That leaves us with 1.6M in Cap space to start the year. plenty of wiggle room to make something happen at the deadline.

Panarin - Tro - Laf
Kreider - Zib - Farabee
Othmann - Zegras - Aube-Kubel/Craig smith
Cuylle - Edstrom - Vesey
Rempe
Brodz

Theodore - Fox
Miller - Schneider
Jones - Walker
Mackey

Shesty
Quick

This lineup drastically improves the Defense. Offense is a bit of a question mark considering 25% turnover, but I think it will be fine. It also allows for competition. Berard/Sykora/Othmann, etc. have plenty of opportunity to break into the lineup. If none of them step up, then we can be more aggressive at the deadline.

Next offseason would be tough considering Miller, Theodore, Jones, Laf and Shesty would all need new contracts. That is probably the time to start talking about moving Zibanejad, but we can cross that bridge when we come to it. We will have options.

Thoughts?

 

[nsvoyageurs]

Man, I starting to have hope again.

Trouba out. Lindgren staying on a bargain deal. Works for me as long as Lindgren is playing down in the lineup.

They need to trade Lindgren to prevent them from playing him where he has been.

 

[nsvoyageurs]

Dr

I don’t see how Drury is going to be able to trade up into the top 8 because that’s where Buium is projected to go

Drury would have to trade Shesterkin to get into the top 8.

 

[effen]

I think it's disingenuous to paint Tuch as substantially more valuable either then or now.

Strome is "just a guy," that got a clear cut top-6 contract from Anaheim and Krebs has a career high of like 26 points and is coming off 17 in 80. I don't think it's obvious that Strome isn't more valuable than Krebs even at the time of the trade.

I think Tuch was a better piece then and is still a better piece -- a 6'4 220 guy who can skate and score is just a more valuable commodity than a nice top 6 winger even if the nice guy outscores him sometimes.

No one thought Strome was for real and Krebs only had 13 NHL games at the time of the trade. Strome was in fact not for real and immediately went back to being a 30-40 point guy away from Panarin and Krebs at the time of the trade was 2 years removed from being a 1st rounder. He was pretty easily more valuable then.

Vegas' offer was and is better. How much is a matter of opinion.

 

[Kupo]

Didn’t Adams make a snide comment about us refusing to part with Schneider for Eichel? Pretty sure he was one of the guys they insisted on, on top of all the other shit.

 

[McRanger92]

This seems kind of handwavy to me.

I find it the whole Buch disaster a lot more credible that other GMs tried lowballing and dropped the ball than Drury did by not manifesting a better offer through voodoo.

Rangers fans thought they were trading a PPG player, but the rest of the league saw him as the 40-50 point player he was. It fractured the fanbase.

 

[Kupo]

Dr

Drury would have to trade Shesterkin to get into the top 8.

Machinehead rn:

Then we can just draft Joey tits in the 6th round as Igor’s replacement. Profit!!

Rangers fans thought they were trading a PPG player, but the rest of the league saw him as the 40-50 point player he was. It fractured the fanbase.

Almost killed Jova! Dammit!

 

[mas0764]

I think Tuch was a better piece then and is still a better piece -- a 6'4 220 guy who can skate and score is just a more valuable commodity than a nice top 6 winger even if the nice guy outscores him sometimes.

No one thought Strome was for real and Krebs only had 13 NHL games at the time of the trade. Strome was in fact not for real and immediately went back to being a 30-40 point guy away from Panarin and Krebs at the time of the trade was 2 years removed from being a 1st rounder. He was pretty easily more valuable then.

Vegas' offer was and is better. How much is a matter of opinion.

I think our offer was better, but I would acknowledge that is splitting hairs in terms of how much.

Strome was signed by Anaheim. Someone thought he was for real.

Rangers fans thought they were trading a PPG player, but the rest of the league saw him as the 40-50 point player he was. It fractured the fanbase.

But the Rangers fans turned out to be right. He has been a PPG player two out of the three years since leaving here.

 

[effen]

Rangers fans thought they were trading a PPG player, but the rest of the league saw him as the 40-50 point player he was. It fractured the fanbase.

I think it was twofold:
1) Drury was a rookie GM and they thought they could take advantage of that despite trading guys being so incredibly simple its a core part of video games
2) There's a nonsensical anti-New York bias amongst mouth breathing Canadians for no real reason other than New York is big or something? Seriously the Rangers have never done anything to anyone and have no significant history of winning or anything. It's so bizarre.

 

[mti79]

So who knows if it's accurate but just read on "X" that they heard Kane to NY l. 2 years, 2.25 per with bonuses.

Not trying to argue the source, just wanted to see what people thought of the value. In my mind, that's a no brainer to bring back Showtime at that price.

Also, I like the 2 year deals this off-season so that if McDavid is available in 2 years we can make a run at him.

 

[Levitate]

I can’t see the rangers trading lindgren if they trade trouba
That’d probably be a bit much of a shakeup but my hope would be finding a real partner for Fox and sliding lindgren down the lineup

 

[17futurecap]

So who knows if it's accurate but just read on "X" that they heard Kane to NY l. 2 years, 2.25 per with bonuses.

Not trying to argue the source, just wanted to see what people thought of the value. In my mind, that's a no brainer to bring back Showtime at that price.

Also, I like the 2 year deals this off-season so that if McDavid is available in 2 years we can make a run at him.

You can’t give performance bonuses to a player over 35 on a multi-year deal.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

I see it’s time for the monthly veiled defenses of the Buch trade

 

[bobbop]

Sam Lafferty would be a useful FA pickup.

 

[bobbop]

So who knows if it's accurate but just read on "X" that they heard Kane to NY l. 2 years, 2.25 per with bonuses.

Not trying to argue the source, just wanted to see what people thought of the value. In my mind, that's a no brainer to bring back Showtime at that price.

Also, I like the 2 year deals this off-season so that if McDavid is available in 2 years we can make a run at him.

Since Kane is 35, they can bring him back on a bonus laden contract. 1 year, $2.5MM base and an additional $1MM In easily obtainable bonuses.

 

[RangersFan1994]

I rather the Rangers see if they have any Dom Moore types in the system before overpaying for bottom 6 players.