Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

[Atax]

So you think that the rangers putting their captain on waivers and sending him to the AHL is going to set a precedent for the NHL teams and a fact how 31 other teams operate and how 600 NHL players throughout the week operate? Could people be any more delusional lincoln that this isolated move would somehow I have a positive effect? The other players in your organization have already come to you and said they disagree with how you're handling this, are you seriously suggesting that if the rest of the team pushed back against this that the organization would just put half of them on waivers and send them to the AHL? It's a flight that the team cannot win right now. Sure they can send him down and try to make a power move But the long-term effects are going to be a lot more damaging than people realize

I've read this 3 times and Im not sure what you're trying to convey.

Lets break this down. A player is within his right to excercise his contracually rights. This includes NTC/NMC.
The Rangers have the right to trade or waive any player they can legally take action on. This means trading players and placing them on waivers.
The only problem people have is the (speculation) that Trouba is outright refusing to report to any team.
If this is the case and he's attempting to control what a team does with his contract with threats, then put his ass on waivers.

Putting Trouba or any player on waivers isn't amoral or going to ruin this franchise. Allowing players to dictate what the organization does, is bad precedent.

 

[NYR Viper]

Buffalo is going to be doing something. That team needs to make the playoffs and they have $19m in cap space with Jokiharju, Krebs and Malentsyn to sign giving them 12 + 6 + 2. If Samuelsson is back, that's still $15m in cap space.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Kakko out for two months was probably a benefit, But in all seriousness I think people discount a little too much that there were a couple players that had career years and that the majority of the core of this team is actually getting older into their 30s. At some point it's not really rational to expect players at those ages to improve or even maintain their level. I'm not saying it's going to be a drop off next year, but I would caution against expecting these guys to repeat career years again

Expecting Panarin and Trocheck to be as good as they were is a mistake, Zibanejad is already not that good, and Kreider while a great special teams player has lost a step and isn’t as effective as he used to be at 5v5. It is extremely unlikely the Rangers are as good as they were last season. Hope for improvements from Laf/Miller/Jones/Cuylle, and Chytil stays healthy to offset regression from the other 4. But that’s the situation this team is in.

 

[bleedblue94]

I dont think it will hurt this organization at all. The player will go to the team that will pay them the most. They wont avoid NY because of Trouba.
So from your stance, if a player has a family situation, they can threaten to not report to prevent any trade? Fine. They can do that. They can also go on waivers.

I'm not concerned about how Trouba feels. Im not concerned about how the players on the team feel. Theyll do their job. They want to win the Stanley Cup. They arent going to give up on the season because of this.

People will forget about this nonsense a year or 2 from now.

You realize that not all the free agents are coming to the rangers anymore right? They're mostly using the rangers for leverage in negotiations with other teams. Usually if nyr gets somebody they have to overpay with very limited exceptions.

Additionally You say that players will go to where they can get paid the most, New York state is not one of those places. That's part of why More free agents are using nyr for gaining leverage with other negotiations than they are actually coming here at this point.

I think it's extremely disingenuous to compare his situation this summer to " any family situation." Do you have kids? Needing to be pulled away from your infant child he's devastating for a lot of people. Yes some people do go through that but in this situation you just have a player that is said that he's willing to forego the rest of his contract because he doesn't want to have to leave his wife and his infant kid. What's wrong with that? If you want to pick a fight with them over this then waive him and deal with the mess and then have him walk away from his contract, But the pr disaster that will come out of that as the humanitarian story comes out will be a complete disaster for the organization. Not for the people on this board who act cutthroat about these things, but for the average everyday fan or people that passively follow the NHL hearing that a team banished the player and then forced him into a situation where he had to walk away from his contract because he wanted to stay close to his wife and infant kid is not exactly the kind of story any organization wants to have out in the mainstream public

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

If the bring back the same defense, they are virtually guaranteed to be a below average team at 5v5. They will be good. But hard to be a serious contender if that is the case.

 

[bleedblue94]

I've read this 3 times and Im not sure what you're trying to convey.

Lets break this down. A player is within his right to excercise his contracually rights. This includes NTC/NMC.
The Rangers have the right to trade or waive any player they can legally take action on. This means trading players and placing them on waivers.
The only problem people have is the (speculation) that Trouba is outright refusing to report to any team.
If this is the case and he's attempting to control what a team does with his contract with threats, then put his ass on waivers.

Putting Trouba or any player on waivers isn't amoral or going to ruin this franchise. Allowing players to dictate what the organization does, is bad precedent.

You're missing the last legal right, a player has a right not to report and then deal with the fallout and the contract termination. That's the third legal right that you keep ignoring. The problem is that option comes with a PR disaster for the organization. This is all about leverage, and a lot of the shallow thinkers on this board thought the Drury was going to have all this crazy leverage on Monday with the NTC kicking in but never considered the fact that the player and the agent maintained more leverage because of PR. That's all it is, the team can actually do what you're saying and if they do it that's fine and then the player can just not report which is also just fine and then he can walk away from his contract because he didn't report which is also just fine but there's about a 1% chance that it will get to that point because of the fact that this is not an EA sports game

 

[hardnosed]

Trouba is gone next summer at the latest.

Him and Lindgren will be gone before the Igor extension. However, both are pretty much locked in for this season

 

[DanielBrassard]

If the bring back the same defense, they are virtually guaranteed to be a below average team at 5v5. They will be good. But hard to be a serious contender if that is the case.

It’s not just the defense to be fair. It’s also having a guy who’s not a play driver as the #1 center which hurts a lot. Among other things like not enough team speed, being below average in terms of puck retrievals, and not being willing to play more of a cycle game.

 

[17futurecap]

Trouba probably had a broken ankle in every playoff since he’s been here, I’m sure this is the year it will get better in crunch time.

 

[Atax]

You realize that not all the free agents are coming to the rangers anymore right? They're mostly using the rangers for leverage in negotiations with other teams. Usually if nyr gets somebody they have to overpay with very limited exceptions.

Additionally You say that players will go to where they can get paid the most, New York state is not one of those places. That's part of why More free agents are using nyr for gaining leverage with other negotiations than they are actually coming here at this point.

I think it's extremely disingenuous to compare his situation this summer to " any family situation." Do you have kids? Needing to be pulled away from your infant child he's devastating for a lot of people. Yes some people do go through that but in this situation you just have a player that is said that he's willing to forego the rest of his contract because he doesn't want to have to leave his wife and his infant kid. What's wrong with that? If you want to pick a fight with them over this then waive him and deal with the mess and then have him walk away from his contract, But the pr disaster that will come out of that as the humanitarian story comes out will be a complete disaster for the organization. Not for the people on this board who act cutthroat about these things, but for the average everyday fan or people that passively follow the NHL hearing that a team banished the player and then forced him into a situation where he had to walk away from his contract because he wanted to stay close to his wife and infant kid is not exactly the kind of story any organization wants to have out in the mainstream public

Panarin chose to come to NY. Adam Fox forced his way to NYR. Trocheck came to NY.
There is no agent going "Hey you know, Lets not go to NY." If NY offers the player the most money, they will come to NY. To think otherwise is just false.

In regards to the family stuff, Trouba should've negotiated his contract to include a NMC or a full NTC. Since he didnt, the NYR have the right to trade him to 15 teams or place him on waivers. Spinning it into some PR nightmare is so dramatic.


Im not ignoring Trouba's right to refuse to report. If he wants to lose out on 16 mil, thats his choice.

So your saying the NYR need to take families into consideration while operating a business? Come on man. That's just absurd.

Waiving Trouba wont affect the organization in the slightest in regards to FA.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

You realize that not all the free agents are coming to the rangers anymore right? They're mostly using the rangers for leverage in negotiations with other teams. Usually if nyr gets somebody they have to overpay with very limited exceptions.

Additionally You say that players will go to where they can get paid the most, New York state is not one of those places. That's part of why More free agents are using nyr for gaining leverage with other negotiations than they are actually coming here at this point.

I think it's extremely disingenuous to compare his situation this summer to " any family situation." Do you have kids? Needing to be pulled away from your infant child he's devastating for a lot of people. Yes some people do go through that but in this situation you just have a player that is said that he's willing to forego the rest of his contract because he doesn't want to have to leave his wife and his infant kid. What's wrong with that? If you want to pick a fight with them over this then waive him and deal with the mess and then have him walk away from his contract, But the pr disaster that will come out of that as the humanitarian story comes out will be a complete disaster for the organization. Not for the people on this board who act cutthroat about these things, but for the average everyday fan or people that passively follow the NHL hearing that a team banished the player and then forced him into a situation where he had to walk away from his contract because he wanted to stay close to his wife and infant kid is not exactly the kind of story any organization wants to have out in the mainstream public

The his “family being broken” up take is such hyperbole it’s hard to take seriously. Like he’s being sent to a Siberian gulag. Like he will be wistfully writing letters home from a Civil War encampment.

Not you know, dealing with a situation that many professional athletes and many many more regular people have to endure for a period of time as a condition of his employment.

I have no issue with him preferring this, and exercising his contractually given powers to do so. But any shady business beyond that exposes him for what he is, a me first prima donna which is beyond rich given that he was an $8M net negative on the ice.

 

[bhamill]

So you think that the rangers putting their captain on waivers and sending him to the AHL is going to set a precedent for the NHL teams and a fact how 31 other teams operate and how 600 NHL players throughout the week operate? Could people be any more delusional lincoln that this isolated move would somehow I have a positive effect? The other players in your organization have already come to you and said they disagree with how you're handling this, are you seriously suggesting that if the rest of the team pushed back against this that the organization would just put half of them on waivers and send them to the AHL? It's a flight that the team cannot win right now. Sure they can send him down and try to make a power move But the long-term effects are going to be a lot more damaging than people realize

Yeah, I honestly doubt there would be any damage. The entire league can see that Trouba is an albatross at his cap hit, everyone can see he is massively under performing his contract. A contract goes both ways, he engineered his list to make it difficult for the NYR, common knowledge now, IF his agent is putting it out there that he wont report to teams NOT on his NT list, nothing that NYR do will have a negative effect. His agent forced their hand. HE hired and pays his agent, HIS responsibility. THEY signed a contract allowing him to be traded in his last two years, his/family circumstances changing don't alter that. If NYR were hurting for cash would he give some back? f*** no. Trying to make the M-NTC both sides agreed to into essentially a NMC is on Trouba and his agent.

As far as the precedent, I think the poster was only talking about THIS team. f*** around and find out, as the kids say. Basically if it prevents UFA's from coming here who would have no qualms about being inflexible, or potentially underhanded, while underperforming the contract BOTH sides agreed to, all the better.

 

[jay from jersey]

A completely uninspiring offseason coming off a second eastern conference final embarassment is not what you would have hoped for. It would be nice if Drury could turn Lindgren into assets that could be moved for a better LD but that seems unlikely at this point. Looking forward to the retool next offseason.

I mean that’s pretty much the long and the short of it…..
Zibby/panarin/trouba core together is getting 1 more kick at the can.

Tro/kreider/zibby will all likely remain and be vets for the next batch. Plus whoever they target via UFA/Trade
Imo
Chytil should be moved by seasons end
Kakko as well unless he magically finds the offense that’s been dormant since he was drafted.
The next group will look something like this, number lines however ya like

Kreider-Zibby-???
???- Trochek-Laf
Cuylle-???-???
???-Edstrom-???
EX Rempe

???-Fox
Miller-Schneider
Jones-???

Shesty
???

Some ??? Spots will be filled in internally via the farm. Some possible by other players lower in the line up should they develop into impact players the next 1-2 years.
At least 2 ??? Will come from outside help ( UFA/Trade)

It’s solid bones, say they add a tkachuk via trade, and 2 of Othmann/berard/chmelar/sykora
Carve out top 9/12 spots….
Perrault will likely be top 6 guy needle mover.

Over next 1.5-2 years, critical to add at least 1 top pair D, 1 2B-3C

The top 9 needs to be dangerous. Kreider/Zibby may dip a bit production wise, our 3rd/2B line needs to be able to score regularly.
If 3rd line isn’t tilted in our favor on most given nights, we’re screwed.

 

[DanielBrassard]

View attachment 891808

Trouba probably had a broken ankle in every playoff since he’s been here, I’m sure this is the year it will get better in crunch time.

I don’t think the numbers are much different for the rest of the defense aside from Fox lol. The Rangers have been awful in the playoffs over the past 3 seasons. Their best playoff series in terms of analytics the past 3 years was this past series against Carolina.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

It’s not just the defense to be fair. It’s also having a guy who’s not a play driver as the #1 center which hurts a lot. Among other things like not enough team speed, being below average in terms of puck retrievals, and not being willing to play more of a cycle game.

I don’t disagree. But to me the defense is the number one issue. A minimum condition for improvement. They barely had the chance to establish a cycle game against Florida because they couldn’t get out of their own zone and when they did everyone went for a change.

 

[hardnosed]

I've read this 3 times and Im not sure what you're trying to convey.

Lets break this down. A player is within his right to excercise his contracually rights. This includes NTC/NMC.
The Rangers have the right to trade or waive any player they can legally take action on. This means trading players and placing them on waivers.
The only problem people have is the (speculation) that Trouba is outright refusing to report to any team.
If this is the case and he's attempting to control what a team does with his contract with threats, then put his ass on waivers.

Putting Trouba or any player on waivers isn't amoral or going to ruin this franchise. Allowing players to dictate what the organization does, is bad precedent.

Except that putting him on waivers accomplishes nothing other than pissing everyone off. With all we have heard and discussed, speculated on, etc, no team will claim him, so he's still under contract to us for 8 million. Sure, after he clears, we can send him to Hartford to be vindictive. But even that does little. Saves us just 1 million and creates another hole in the lineup and in the locker room.

 

[duhmetreE]

since Trouba somehow strong armed the org.... Lindgren needs to be moved and an upgrade to LHD in the top4. Trading Lindgren and acquiring Theo would be making the best out of a bad situation....

KAM Fox
Theo Schneider
Jones Trouba

but we don't want to upset the players with moving Lindgren...... so what we'll get is more of the handicapping d group.

winning is not everything... it's about the friends you've made along the way and the accompanying lifestyle. A social group... some would call it an exclusive country club. Have no clue why we have 1 cup in 80+ years

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Buffalo is going to be doing something. That team needs to make the playoffs and they have $19m in cap space with Jokiharju, Krebs and Malentsyn to sign giving them 12 + 6 + 2. If Samuelsson is back, that's still $15m in cap space.

Trouba to Buffalo and he can see his wife after a one-hour flight. I know people with worse commutes than that. Done.

 

[Lion Hound]

Panarin chose to come to NY. Adam Fox forced his way to NYR. Trocheck came to NY.
There is no agent going "Hey you know, Lets not go to NY." If NY offers the player the most money, they will come to NY. To think otherwise is just false.

In regards to the family stuff, Trouba should've negotiated his contract to include a NMC or a full NTC. Since he didnt, the NYR have the right to trade him to 15 teams or place him on waivers. Spinning it into some PR nightmare is so dramatic.


Im not ignoring Trouba's right to refuse to report. If he wants to lose out on 16 mil, thats his choice.

So your saying the NYR need to take families into consideration while operating a business? Come on man. That's just absurd.

Waiving Trouba wont affect the organization in the slightest in regards to FA.

Unfortunately its not false at all. Is NY is still a popular destination, but there is a large contingency of players that are looking for the Southern Markets right now.

 

[Atax]

Except that putting him on waivers accomplishes nothing other than pissing everyone off. With all we have heard and discussed, speculated on, etc, no team will claim him, so he's still under contract to us for 8 million. Sure, after he clears, we can send him to Hartford to be vindictive. But even that does little. Saves us just 1 million and creates another hole in the lineup and in the locker room.

I get what your saying. And again, this refusal to report is all just speculation. We have no idea what's actually going on.
I just have the approach that, if a player is going to threaten an organization, with refusal to report, then I'm going to put them on waivers. I'm not a GM/Owner of the team. I'm not saying its the right or wrong choice. I just dont think the team should be strong armed by a player. I think this refusal to report is more toxic than a team putting someone on waivers.

Unfortunately its not false at all. Is NY is still a popular destination, but there is a large contingency of players that are looking for the Southern Markets right now.

Yeah because of tax purposes and getting more money.

 

[Lion Hound]

I get what your saying. And again, this refusal to report is all just speculation. We have no idea what's actually going on.
I just have the approach that, if a player is going to threaten an organization, with refusal to report, then I'm going to put them on waivers. I'm not a GM/Owner of the team. I'm not saying its the right or wrong choice. I just dont think the team should be strong armed by a player. I think this refusal to report is more toxic than a team putting someone on waivers.

Yeah because of tax purposes and getting more money.

Yep, that factors. Quality of life also.

 

[Atax]

Yep, that factors. Quality of life also.

For sure. But thats completely different then saying "Oh god putting Trouba on waivers is going to cause catastrophic issues for this franchise".

And I know you're not the one saying it. I'm not even sure why I'm arguing it. Its so absurd, lol.

 

[Overcast]

You realize that not all the free agents are coming to the rangers anymore right? They're mostly using the rangers for leverage in negotiations with other teams. Usually if nyr gets somebody they have to overpay with very limited exceptions.

Additionally You say that players will go to where they can get paid the most, New York state is not one of those places. That's part of why More free agents are using nyr for gaining leverage with other negotiations than they are actually coming here at this point.

I think it's extremely disingenuous to compare his situation this summer to " any family situation." Do you have kids? Needing to be pulled away from your infant child he's devastating for a lot of people. Yes some people do go through that but in this situation you just have a player that is said that he's willing to forego the rest of his contract because he doesn't want to have to leave his wife and his infant kid. What's wrong with that? If you want to pick a fight with them over this then waive him and deal with the mess and then have him walk away from his contract, But the pr disaster that will come out of that as the humanitarian story comes out will be a complete disaster for the organization. Not for the people on this board who act cutthroat about these things, but for the average everyday fan or people that passively follow the NHL hearing that a team banished the player and then forced him into a situation where he had to walk away from his contract because he wanted to stay close to his wife and infant kid is not exactly the kind of story any organization wants to have out in the mainstream public

If the Blackhawks as an organization could survive the fiasco they created with Beach (WRT public image and general operations), the Rangers will be sitting pretty with a daquiri on the beach after moving on from a captain in a slightly-less-than-ideal situation. This will do absolutely nothing to the Rangers' reputation after this week, with casual/hardcore fans or with the actual players in the NHL.

 

[Tob]

"I wish we were creative and ruthless like Vegas"

"But he has a wife and a kid"

As if all those players in Vegas and Tampa forcing out mcD and Stammer were hobos ready to move onto the next encampment.

We have to be even more brutal against Trouba to send a message. We have to do it BECAUSE he had a wife and a kid. No more country club, kids or no kids, wife or no wife.

 

[Atax]

"I wish we were creative and ruthless like Vegas"

"But he has a wife and a kid"

As if all those players in Vegas and Tampa forcing out mcD and Stammer were hobos ready to move onto the next encampment.

We have to be even more brutal against Trouba to send a message. We have to do it BECAUSE he had a wife and a kid. No more country club, kids or no kids, wife or no wife.