Roster Building thread - Part X - (TDL edition)

[haohmaru]

To be fair, Trouba for Byram is not realistic. Of course we would do it but why would Buffalo? I guess they can use a veteran to help make the playoffs but i don't think it makes sense for them.

I think the suggestion was that’s where the pieces start, not 1 for 1.

 

[McRanger92]

To be fair, Trouba for Byram is not realistic. Of course we would do it but why would Buffalo? I guess they can use a veteran to help make the playoffs but i don't think it makes sense for them.

Buffalo's biggest need by far is a veteran presence. They can have all the shiny prospects in the world but they dont have an adult in the room. Trouba would be that for them, he's got a much better reputation leaguewide than he does here. Bad contract is somewhat negated by Byram's health issues in this hypothetical imo. I think its a fair trade and Sabres would love a righty stay at home guy to play with Power or Dahlin.

 

[nyrallday]

Buffalo's biggest need by far is a veteran presence. They can have all the shiny prospects in the world but they dont have an adult in the room. Trouba would be that for them, he's got a much better reputation leaguewide than he does here. Bad contract is somewhat negated by Byram's health issues in this hypothetical imo. I think its a fair trade and Sabres would love a righty stay at home guy to play with Power or Dahlin.

I assume Byram replaces Gustafsson?

Fox-Lindgren
Schneider-Miller
?-Byram
Unless you play Byram with Fox but idk if that's ideal

 

[McRanger92]

I assume Byram replaces Gustafsson?

Fox-Lindgren
Schneider-Miller
?-Byram
Unless you play Byram with Fox but idk if that's ideal

Its hard to speculate because I dont think any major moves are made the deeper they go into the playoffs. Lindgren and Schneider need new contracts. Schneider will get a bridge but Lindgren is going to get paid a not insignificant amount. I think playoff success and contract demands are going to decide if Trouba, Lindgren or both are here or gone next year. And Gus is the other X factor but I think Jones i being groomed to take over the 3LD role.

 

[bernmeister]

You want to trade Zibanejad, Panarin, Shesterkin, Perreault, Lindgren, and 2 1sts for Matthews?

Doubt AM is made available, but yes, I would do that ^.
Not gonna happen b'c bread, close to end of his deal and recognizing he doesn't get huge $$$$ offer here, to avoid embarrassment, I could see he waives.
Zib not likely to waive. But if he gets we are moving bread + Shesty + Trouba to stay ahead of the cap, he might relent if Leafs going all in can be a finalist for cup next 2-3 yrs.

While some youth would have to be sacrificed, 4 pieces older than 25 are returning value.
And the above deal helps us open spots for guys who could contribute now/w'in next 2 seasons -- Garand, Scanlin, Othmann, Berard, and gives mo mins to deserving Edstrom, Rempe

 

[bernmeister]

The team won the presidents trophy, is up 2-0 in round 1, and I just clicked here because there’s not much news/going on and I see a proposal trading our elite goalie and MVP candidate and a proposed lineup starting 4 rookies in the top 6

while it is not a given rookies can be presumed to succeed min 1, day 1
IT IS ALSO
without any basis to presume they will automatically fail as starters just b'c they are rookies.

Chem will be key and chem yes I admit helps w/experience
BUT
key to chem is unique interaction of specific players even over exp.

 

[nyrallday]

Its hard to speculate because I dont think any major moves are made the deeper they go into the playoffs. Lindgren and Schneider need new contracts. Schneider will get a bridge but Lindgren is going to get paid a not insignificant amount. I think playoff success and contract demands are going to decide if Trouba, Lindgren or both are here or gone next year. And Gus is the other X factor but I think Jones i being groomed to take over the 3LD role.

I like Jones a lot. I know he's small but he can definitely play. Would like to see him in that role, he's earned it imo

 

[bernmeister]

I don't see how Marner isn't traded this summer if the Leafs lose in the first round.

yes unless dealing Matthews is way more profitable for them

 

[IDvsEGO]

I assume Byram replaces Gustafsson?

Fox-Lindgren
Schneider-Miller
?-Byram
Unless you play Byram with Fox but idk if that's ideal

I think you go
Fox-miller
Schneider - byram
? - jones

 

[bernmeister]

Yes, I don’t know why I replied. I’ve been around here long enough to know what happens…..

I don't know why you feel the need to try to play me that way, esp when you should be aware, yes, I'll admit I'm wrong WHEN AND ONLY WHEN I am actually wrong, but I also won't take crap from anybody, and will support across the board right to free speech/competition of ideas, and not yielding to a herd mentality just b'c it is the loudest voice.

I literally prefaced our exchange with:
"I get this specific area is subjective with min of objective weight for anyone."

This means that this topic, w/lack of objective criteria to provide more weight to one opinion over another has both views valid.

We had a nice exchange about, having agreed Guhle is a worthwhile target at the right price, what would be better; surrendering Kakko or LaF?
We had an honest dif of op, and there was a good contrast for all.

So why --- and where do you get off -- with posture that I am the one to be chided. As if your suggestions somehow had more merit than they actually did?

Great way to start a rebuild!

OR --
It is a great way to extend Rs window b'c while we are giving up youth, we are also dealing vets and making room for younger guys who help w/cap, etc. ....

.... He's got Rempe on the the first line and you're replying to this lol? It's horrendous.

I don't back down from idea of TRYING him there, not b'c he is nec 1st line material, but b'c may be chemistry w/Kreider + Matthews as explained.
Parallel to Boo Nieves having chem->synergy w/Kreider + Zib.
Have you learned nothing?
Arguments can be contrasted for and against this working, but bottom line, ZERO reason not to try, which costs nothing.
We have Roslovic and other options if Rempe can't handle that [which on paper is not a given b'c he has enuf physical aspects covered, only ? is if he develops a scoring touch -> a definite maybe, not an automatic no].

For a guy that’s looking like he’s going to lead his team to one series win in eight consecutive years of making the playoffs. It’s not all on him obviously but I’m not trading half of a team that’s one of 5 favorites to win the Cup for that player.

I acknowledge it would be a huge amount of production for .... a huge amount of production. But Matthews would consolidate that into a single most dominant player, so we add production from added spots of players traded.
Plus we save cap
Plus we get younger

= extend window

drop mic

 

[bernmeister]

this the same guy who accuses people who disagree with him of telling him that water is not wet?

This is disingenuous, and you need to be called out for going there.

What you say above, literally renders into if anyone disagrees with me at any time for any reason, they are wrong, and I am right.
You are confusing me with that mo fo in the public eye who says "I alone can fix it" [to maintain compliance w/HF policy, no names].

My track record is clear.
I champion competition of ideas fully.
I invite honest debate.

I DID make the comment about water is not wet BUT it does not apply 111% across the board, only to few instances by handful of posters who reject facts in a given discussion, apparently intentionally, to maintain a posture of bern can never be right, period full stop.
Which on its face is wrong.
We are all correct/incorrect at any given time in any given post based on merit NOT BIAS.

 

[haohmaru]

I don't know why you feel the need to try to play me that way, esp when you should be aware, yes, I'll admit I'm wrong WHEN AND ONLY WHEN I am actually wrong, but I also won't take crap from anybody, and will support across the board right to free speech/competition of ideas, and not yielding to a herd mentality just b'c it is the loudest voice.

I literally prefaced our exchange with:
"I get this specific area is subjective with min of objective weight for anyone."

This means that this topic, w/lack of objective criteria to provide more weight to one opinion over another has both views valid.

We had a nice exchange about, having agreed Guhle is a worthwhile target at the right price, what would be better; surrendering Kakko or LaF?
We had an honest dif of op, and there was a good contrast for all.

So why --- and where do you get off -- with posture that I am the one to be chided. As if your suggestions somehow had more merit than they actually did?



OR --
It is a great way to extend Rs window b'c while we are giving up youth, we are also dealing vets and making room for younger guys who help w/cap, etc. ....



I don't back down from idea of TRYING him there, not b'c he is nec 1st line material, but b'c may be chemistry w/Kreider + Matthews as explained.
Parallel to Boo Nieves having chem->synergy w/Kreider + Zib.
Have you learned nothing?
Arguments can be contrasted for and against this working, but bottom line, ZERO reason not to try, which costs nothing.
We have Roslovic and other options if Rempe can't handle that [which on paper is not a given b'c he has enuf physical aspects covered, only ? is if he develops a scoring touch -> a definite maybe, not an automatic no].


I acknowledge it would be a huge amount of production for .... a huge amount of production. But Matthews would consolidate that into a single most dominant player, so we add production from added spots of players traded.
Plus we save cap
Plus we get younger

= extend window

drop mic

Dude, you’re a character and HF is better for you being here. You’re a valuable poster in all things Rangers and do bring out of the box thinking nearly every single day. Kudos.

That being said, the only person that takes most of your trade proposals seriously is you. They aren’t realistic. They aren’t feasible. They almost always lead players into roles that they aren’t suited for. They don’t fit into where this team is currently at.

Keep plugging away though.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

To be honest I'm not a big fan of having to play against Trouba, i know people dump on him but outside of his contract being too large he's fine and anything that keeps us from having him line up Fox or Lafreniere in a playoff game against us is fine with me. I get it, his contract is big, probably atleast double his value but he isn't near as bad as people make him out to be, he's good on the pk, a leader in the room, heavy hitter who stands up for his team. As long as they can make the cap work i have no problem with him here. He's gonna be a big asset against big physical teams like Florida

 

[jay from jersey]

I don't know why you feel the need to try to play me that way, esp when you should be aware, yes, I'll admit I'm wrong WHEN AND ONLY WHEN I am actually wrong, but I also won't take crap from anybody, and will support across the board right to free speech/competition of ideas, and not yielding to a herd mentality just b'c it is the loudest voice.

I literally prefaced our exchange with:
"I get this specific area is subjective with min of objective weight for anyone."

This means that this topic, w/lack of objective criteria to provide more weight to one opinion over another has both views valid.

We had a nice exchange about, having agreed Guhle is a worthwhile target at the right price, what would be better; surrendering Kakko or LaF?
We had an honest dif of op, and there was a good contrast for all.

So why --- and where do you get off -- with posture that I am the one to be chided. As if your suggestions somehow had more merit than they actually did?



OR --
It is a great way to extend Rs window b'c while we are giving up youth, we are also dealing vets and making room for younger guys who help w/cap, etc. ....



I don't back down from idea of TRYING him there, not b'c he is nec 1st line material, but b'c may be chemistry w/Kreider + Matthews as explained.
Parallel to Boo Nieves having chem->synergy w/Kreider + Zib.
Have you learned nothing?
Arguments can be contrasted for and against this working, but bottom line, ZERO reason not to try, which costs nothing.
We have Roslovic and other options if Rempe can't handle that [which on paper is not a given b'c he has enuf physical aspects covered, only ? is if he develops a scoring touch -> a definite maybe, not an automatic no].


I acknowledge it would be a huge amount of production for .... a huge amount of production. But Matthews would consolidate that into a single most dominant player, so we add production from added spots of players traded.
Plus we save cap
Plus we get younger

= extend window

drop mic

Why stop there Bern?
Once we get Matthews for trading 5 starters our best prospect and 2 1sts (which would be like 35-40mill of cap going out)
Why don’t we extend the window further????
Let’s turn around and trade Matthews and Fox for 9 1st Rd picks each…..
That’s outside the box thinking, the salary cap is real, I will be proven right in the long run etc etc etc

There are trades and targets that are realistic, and there are trades/targets that are fantasy….
1 is worth having a discussion about, and the other is medication time like in 1 flew over the cuckoos nest

The whole point of talking about Kakko possibly being moved is he’s stuck in a position in NY where he’s overqualified.

he won’t get top 6 min/special teams time here so in all likelihood he would only want to sign a 1-2year deal here and bounce to get that opportunity elsewhere in order to play more and a chance to be paid a lot more.

Even with the fantastical trade you have above, you still have Kakko on 3rd line and Rempe and Edstrom in the top 6 smh…..
I’m sure that would reinforce his interest to sign long term here……
There’s honestly no use going back and fourth anymore….
There’s going to be players that are foundational pieces due to economics/contract length/cap and a myriad of other reasons.
Other teams will have the same thing.
Moving laf ( NYR first 1OA pick in almost a century) just when he’s turning into the player almost all of us envisioned him to be when he was drafted is absolutely bonkers.
As good as a player Reinbacher may become, it would be a PR nightmare.
Montreal is also again, not trading a guy they took in the top 5 while they are rebuilding…. Teams do not do that…..
Once in a blue moon, there is a lindros/cutter gauthier situation that happens, but that is not the norm.

Again this is not debating “outside the box” thinking. It’s non-realistic fantastical situations that rarely if ever occur since this sport became the NHL

I guess you should be chided over me cause of time. I’d rather not waste it debating things that have less then a .00001% chance of happening as opposed to things that possibly and likely could.
This is by no means saying you can’t do what you do with your sensational ideas/proposals
It’s me. We’ve both been around here for years and I should know better than going down this rabbit hole.
That’s all my response was saying

 

[McRanger92]

To be honest I'm not a big fan of having to play against Trouba, i know people dump on him but outside of his contract being too large he's fine and anything that keeps us from having him line up Fox or Lafreniere in a playoff game against us is fine with me. I get it, his contract is big, probably atleast double his value but he isn't near as bad as people make him out to be, he's good on the pk, a leader in the room, heavy hitter who stands up for his team. As long as they can make the cap work i have no problem with him here. He's gonna be a big asset against big physical teams like Florida

Opposing player's simply need to picture Trouba's xGF numbers when playing against him. Like picturing the audience in their underpants'.

 

[jay from jersey]

It’s hard to speculate because I dont think any major moves are made the deeper they go into the playoffs. Lindgren and Schneider need new contracts. Schneider will get a bridge but Lindgren is going to get paid a not insignificant amount. I think playoff success and contract demands are going to decide if Trouba, Lindgren or both are here or gone next year. And Gus is the other X factor but I think Jones i being groomed to take over the 3LD role.

Well def see how deep this current team does.
I’m no Trouba basher. Most of the forum knows, I appreciate what he brings on and off the ice but he’s also running out of time here. They can possibly keep him here another season, but my gut tells me if Drury can move him in the offseason and get some value back for him, he will.
If Schneider and miller have a great playoff, I think that might put the nail in his coffin.
This team will have Zibby locked up, hopefully a better/more normal regular season next year.
-kreids here
-Panarin for 2 more years
-and all our kids 1 more year older with another postseason/more development.
-there’s also good kids coming along ( cheap help) as reinforcements for the line up…….

If somehow Drury deals both Trouba and Goodrow in the offseason, I’d wager we might take a run at Brady Tkachuk…
I have no idea about the cap hoops we’d have to jump thru, or how we’d reinforce our D, but if that can fit his contact as well as signing our guys, I can see the front office wanting to add him to what we have in place already and really go for the cup/cups over the next 2-3 seasons

 

[bl02]

yes unless dealing Matthews is way more profitable for them

They just signed him long term and he had a monster game 2 but I guess anything is possible.

 

[bhamill]

They have but this won’t be happening.

People need to remember that Trouba still has a modified no trade list this summer. Buffalo would certainly be on that list.

Then again, it's in NYS, and not THAT far from NYC, so maybe not. I can see all the Canadian teams being on it, that leaves 8 other teams on the list. ANA, CHI, ARI, CBJ, SJS, WSH, SEA, PITT all likely on there. I'd bet NYI, NJD are not because a) NYR wouldn't trade him there, b) they are close to NYC. Possibly all teams out west instead of some of these...
Who knows?

I’d try to trade Kakko for Guhle at the draft.
Montreal needs fwds/center and has a stockpile of young talented D.
Kakko had a injury riddled/bad year, has untapped potential and likely won’t sign anything beyond a year or 2 if there is no assurance he’ll get top 6 min and special teams time.

Guhle had a typical sophomore slump for a big D.
He wasn’t as good as he showed in his 1st season, similar to Schneider in that way. Still a young kid who played more min of competitive nhl hockey the. Ever before and you can see it. Imo he has the size/talent to have legitimate 1st pair potential.

I love Kakko, but if he wants a bigger role and isn’t in the long range plans via signing a short term deal I pull the trigger at the draft.

A top 4 of
Guhle-Fox
Miller-Schneider

Is nasty and will be for years. Resign Lindgren 4-5 years no clauses. When Guhle makes the jump maybe halfway thru next year, they could drop Lindgren to 3rd pair with jones, or trade him 2-3 years into that contract.

Gorton drafted Kakko. Gotta think he’s got a soft spot for him.
He’d do well on a wing opposite slaf or caufield

As much as I love Kakko, I think this is a trade that works for both players and both teams.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

WTF i thought we had a game today.

Oh well, guess that means i can watch the NFL draft and see who the next all-time Jets bust will be.

 

[bl02]

WTF i thought we had a game today.

Oh well, guess that means i can watch the NFL draft and see who the next all-time Jets bust will be.

Wolfpack! But they are playing what seems to be their kryptonite so hope for the best.

 

[noncents]

how's this for outside the box: would anyone want Marner on 20/93's wing? Kakko/Trouba/Goodrow for Marner/Mccabe as a framework.

KZM
Bread Tro Laf
Cuylle Chytil Berard/Othmann
Vesey Brodzinski/Edstrom Rempe

Lindgren Fox
Miller Schneider
Jones Mccabe

 

[bl02]

how's this for outside the box: would anyone want Marner on 20/93's wing? Kakko/Trouba/Goodrow for Marner/Mccabe as a framework.

KZM
Bread Tro Laf
Cuylle Chytil Berard/Othmann
Vesey Brodzinski/Edstrom Rempe

Lindgren Fox
Miller Schneider
Jones Mccabe

sure on paper sounds good but if this is how he is gonna play in the playoffs no thanks. He needs to show up big time in next 2/3/4 games vs Boston.

 

[EdJovanovski]

how's this for outside the box: would anyone want Marner on 20/93's wing? Kakko/Trouba/Goodrow for Marner/Mccabe as a framework.

KZM
Bread Tro Laf
Cuylle Chytil Berard/Othmann
Vesey Brodzinski/Edstrom Rempe

Lindgren Fox
Miller Schneider
Jones Mccabe

Absolutely zero interest in Marner

 

[Uglybstrd]

I noticed some of you inserted Theodore into our next years lineup. Is he really available? I guess we`re talking about Shea Theodore What would it take to bring him here? Vegas cant take any salary back so would have to be a boatload of picks.

Edit: I see they will get at least Marchessault and Martinez salaries of the books, and of course Theodore`s salary, So that would help them staying under the cap.

 

[bernmeister]

Why stop there Bern?
Once we get Matthews for trading 5 starters our best prospect and 2 1sts (which would be like 35-40mill of cap going out)
Why don’t we extend the window further????
Let’s turn around and trade Matthews and Fox for 9 1st Rd picks each…..
That’s outside the box thinking, the salary cap is real, I will be proven right in the long run etc etc etc

There are trades and targets that are realistic, and there are trades/targets that are fantasy….
1 is worth having a discussion about, and the other is medication time like in 1 flew over the cuckoos nest

The whole point of talking about Kakko possibly being moved is he’s stuck in a position in NY where he’s overqualified.

he won’t get top 6 min/special teams time here so in all likelihood he would only want to sign a 1-2year deal here and bounce to get that opportunity elsewhere in order to play more and a chance to be paid a lot more.

Even with the fantastical trade you have above, you still have Kakko on 3rd line and Rempe and Edstrom in the top 6 smh…..
I’m sure that would reinforce his interest to sign long term here……
There’s honestly no use going back and fourth anymore….
There’s going to be players that are foundational pieces due to economics/contract length/cap and a myriad of other reasons.
Other teams will have the same thing.
Moving laf ( NYR first 1OA pick in almost a century) just when he’s turning into the player almost all of us envisioned him to be when he was drafted is absolutely bonkers.
As good as a player Reinbacher may become, it would be a PR nightmare.
Montreal is also again, not trading a guy they took in the top 5 while they are rebuilding…. Teams do not do that…..
Once in a blue moon, there is a lindros/cutter gauthier situation that happens, but that is not the norm.

Again this is not debating “outside the box” thinking. It’s non-realistic fantastical situations that rarely if ever occur since this sport became the NHL

I guess you should be chided over me cause of time. I’d rather not waste it debating things that have less then a .00001% chance of happening as opposed to things that possibly and likely could.
This is by no means saying you can’t do what you do with your sensational ideas/proposals
It’s me. We’ve both been around here for years and I should know better than going down this rabbit hole.
That’s all my response was saying

thanks for courtesy of a resposnse
needless to say, I disagree w/much of yr assessment

am crushed into w'e at earliest
will give substantial reply first chance

how's this for outside the box: would anyone want Marner on 20/93's wing? Kakko/Trouba/Goodrow for Marner/Mccabe as a framework.

KZM
Bread Tro Laf
Cuylle Chytil Berard/Othmann
Vesey Brodzinski/Edstrom Rempe

Lindgren Fox
Miller Schneider
Jones Mccabe

no on MM