Until now, there's been practically no one to make the first pass, so how would we know what AV's transition game even is
Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part VIII: Autumn in New York
- Thread starter Gardner McKay
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Until now, there's been practically no one to make the first pass, so how would we know what AV's transition game even is
For years now, you've continued to bury your head in the sand regarding the Rangers' paper thin personnel depth on defense. Instead, you've chosen to blame it on AV's "choices."
With the acquisition of Shattenkirk and some of the younger guys in the system, your argument might actually have some merit this season if guys like Staal and Holden struggle and stay in the lineup. We shall see.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
Uh... his breakout scheme is why the team scores a ton of rush goals every year and has one of the better offenses in the league.
It's literally the reason the offense overachieves.
I'm pretty sure it's also why the defense sometimes struggles and why they run that "man" system.
Forwards often are ready to fly the zone as quickly as possible, they ride the line of "playing defense" and "waiting to rush up ice" pretty closely. We'll see what happens with a more mobile and skilled defense.
e: I don't think AV has used his past defensive personnel in the best way, making guys like Girardi and Staal and Klein have to chase a lot and have them make the decision of a quick strike breakout pass or "just get it out of trouble", and they often default to "get it out of trouble" which just leads to turnovers. Kind of a square peg round hole that managed to work out by virtue of goaltending holding down the fort and quick forwards
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
Right. It's not like it's without its flaws. Keeping guys feet moving is placed at a higher priority than keeping them in good defensive position and that leads to problems. The system works best when the forwards are making the right reads to do both, but as you said, it's a fine line that has to be walked. More mobile defensemen will thicken that line somewhat, since they will be more able to get back into position quickly.
Ghost of jas
Unsatisfied
I think we saw that ability from both
ADA and Pionk on Monday. I saw both players drawn out of position,, then quickly recover.
DanielBrassard
It's all so tiresome
The Rangers are absolutely a counter attack/transition team and have been since AV was brought here. Has AV's personnel decisions matched up with that since he's been here? Not all the time, but that's without a doubt the system he has run.
Machinehead
Fox Mafia Consigliere
I don't care about the depth. Anybody who leans on Dan Girardi like a crutch doesn't give a flying **** about transition.
And I guess Staal and Holden never leaving the ice in the playoffs was because of "depth" also.
The Rangers are a good rush team. Rush and transition are not at all the same thing.
Good transition teams aren't regularly buried in their own zone.
Good transition teams aren't near the top of the league in icings.
Good transition teams play in the neutral zone and deny entries, so they can turn quickly. The neutral zone might as well not exist in AV's system and he consistently gives minutes to defensemen who are horrid at denying zone entries, over much better options.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
Yeah, sorry no.
Teams only get a lot of rushes if their game is predicated on transition. Rush and transition aren't the same thing, but one is evidence of the other.
They have so many icings because of how many stretch passes they attempt, plus what Levitate mentioned about essentially having a difficult choice on where to go with the puck.
I know you watch the games and love the game, but sometimes I question whether or not you understand what you're seeing. To claim the Rangers aren't a transition team is ludicrous to an extreme.
Teams only get a lot of rushes if their game is predicated on transition. Rush and transition aren't the same thing, but one is evidence of the other.
They have so many icings because of how many stretch passes they attempt, plus what Levitate mentioned about essentially having a difficult choice on where to go with the puck.
I know you watch the games and love the game, but sometimes I question whether or not you understand what you're seeing. To claim the Rangers aren't a transition team is ludicrous to an extreme.
Machinehead
Fox Mafia Consigliere
Well ours isn't. Everything AV has ever done back to his Montreal days shows that he doesn't want his defensemen playing fast.
I don't know how you could watch this team and think otherwise.
Machinehead
Fox Mafia Consigliere
If anything, Jagr would give us a way to score that isn't an odd man rush. That would come in handy.
Either way, "Jagr is too slow" is a horrible excuse. AV adores slow players.
Either way, "Jagr is too slow" is a horrible excuse. AV adores slow players.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
D don't have to play fast to have an effective transition game, though it helps. They just have to manage to get the puck away from the net to an area where a forward, who is already moving, is supposed to be. AVs transition game relies on the forwards to do so more than the D.
Or at least that's the way it's turned out on this team, which is somewhat a reflection of the roster. I suspect we might see it go differently this year.
Revel
Dark Sky Enthusiast
Doesn't AV play Man-on-Man D in order to facilitate more dangerous transitions where they can steal/intercept and get past the opponent earlier & easier? I'd say AV's gameplan depends heavily on transition.
Machinehead
Fox Mafia Consigliere
You don't get to be in love with Staal and Holden and call your system predicated on transition.
You don't get to lean on Dan Girardi and call your system predicated on transition.
You don't get to lean on Kevin Bieksa and call your system predicated on transition.
You don't get to be in love with Tanner Glass and call your system predicated on transition.
You don't get to consistently reward Jimmy Vesey who is one of the worst passers in the league, and call your system predicated on transition.
You don't get to to consistently punish high-end passers like Skjei, Clendening, Buchnevich, and Yandle and call your system predicated on transition.
What AV is known for, what AV says he does, and perhaps what AV tries to do, and what his personnel decisions reflect are vehemently opposed.
That's the whole problem.
You don't get to lean on Dan Girardi and call your system predicated on transition.
You don't get to lean on Kevin Bieksa and call your system predicated on transition.
You don't get to be in love with Tanner Glass and call your system predicated on transition.
You don't get to consistently reward Jimmy Vesey who is one of the worst passers in the league, and call your system predicated on transition.
You don't get to to consistently punish high-end passers like Skjei, Clendening, Buchnevich, and Yandle and call your system predicated on transition.
What AV is known for, what AV says he does, and perhaps what AV tries to do, and what his personnel decisions reflect are vehemently opposed.
That's the whole problem.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
Literally no one has argued that his player usage doesn't bely his strategy he asks his team to execute.
Although, a coach doesn't have to act the purist in order to maintain a certain philosophy.
Although, a coach doesn't have to act the purist in order to maintain a certain philosophy.
Machinehead
Fox Mafia Consigliere
I agree with the second part 100%
But having a guy or three that provide a different look is one thing. Giving top minutes to guys who drive a stake through your system is another.
But this is becoming less about Jagr/roster and more about AV being literally the worst thing in the world, so I'll leave it
We're going to find out very shortly if the onus is still on AV.
Now that there's a few puck moving Dmen I expect to see short crisp passes all the way up the ice and in tighter groups.
No more stretch passes!
I also expect to see less man coverage and a more structured back end system with the addition of Ruff.
Lots of questions need to be answered yet.
We shall see..
Now that there's a few puck moving Dmen I expect to see short crisp passes all the way up the ice and in tighter groups.
No more stretch passes!
I also expect to see less man coverage and a more structured back end system with the addition of Ruff.
Lots of questions need to be answered yet.
We shall see..
Revel
Dark Sky Enthusiast
It would be a shame if AV moved to a zone system after finally getting several mobile, puck moving personnel on the back end. I mean...going from man with Girardi & Staal to zone with Skjei & Shattenkirk would make little sense. We now have several guys that have the skating ability to stick to people, and know how to pass the puck. Now is the time to let the man system flourish.
P.S. - I love stretch passes. It's like a Hail Mary in football. When players connect like that, it's awesome. My favorite part of the game vs. the Isles was Graves stretching one to Fontaine for the breakaway. ADA had a nice stretch in the first period, too...I think. Love that stuff.
BBKers
Registered User
Unless you catch the other team on a really bad line change, stretch passing is very risky especially with the speed of today's game IMO.
I think I'm done with the man chasing D coverage as well.
I would much prefer to see something more structured when defending.
It's very difficult to stick with man coverage without any structure or hybrid system when the level of competition changes on any given night.
It makes it very difficult for ANY Dman to "stick" with the game plan without chasing.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
darko
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BBKers
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Chytil
Fixed the lineup
You have him replacing AV as coach, too, right?
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