Roster Building Thread: Part VII (2023-24)

[SA16]

We've gone round and round on this conversation.
High end picks usually start with a high amount of ice time.
Show me 1 season where kakko and laf have even come close to the amount of ice time hughes or stutzle have, and I'll absolutely call them a bust.
Players drafted that high get fed ice time, and thats what allows them to produce very quickly, although it may also expose other flaws in their game (typically defensive responsibilities).

This is often said but it's not really true.

If we look at the 27 #1 or #2 overall forward picks in their first full year since 2005:

(1) Exceeded 20 mins/game (Crosby)
(2) Exceeded 19 minutes/game (Crosby/Eichel)

(10) got under 15 mins/game (Stamkos/J Staal/Svechnikov/Yakupov/Kakko/Laf/Patrick/JVR/Slafkovsky/Seguin.

They certainly got more than PP time but that only matters if you're concerned about raw numbers. Doesn't seem the low TOI harmed many of these guys careers. Most turned out fine other than Yakupov and Patrick (major injury issues).

They're on the low end but it's not some unprecedented amount of low time. Seguin was lowest of all at 12.21. Most of them got more ice time as the years go own but they also showed that they deserved it and were capable of handling it.

 

[B17 Apricots]

Texas Stars Sign Defenseman Ben Zloty to One-Year Contract | Texas Stars | AHL Affiliate to Dallas Stars

Located at the H-E-B Center at Cedar Park - an exciting atmosphere for hockey and entertainment! American Hockey League | Dallas Stars Affiliate.

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Unfortunate

 

[B17 Apricots]

Hudson Thornton is unsigned as well. I dont know if any team is going to commit to him yet. Seattle did invite him to their development camp. He's still eligible for junior hockey but I believe he is no longer draft eligible. Given some of the players we've handed NHL deals and ELCs to I wouldn't mind using a contract slot there. The scouts disrespected those Prince George guys this past season . Heidt almost slipped into the 3rd, Ziemmer ended up in the 3rd.. those were 2 players if we ended up hearing their name called with our first pick would've been plenty fine. Thornton was undrafted again

 

[haohmaru]

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Maybe Laf becomes our version of Phil Kessel ? I'd accept that especially with a Cup or two ! The stats for near the same amount of games is not all that far apart looking at Phil's development . Hopefully this is the season Laf takes flight.....I'm not ready to give up just yet . Maybe Lavi will be the magic pill....I sure hope so.

I’ll take that and run, Kessel has almost 1000 pts in this league

 

[Avery16]

I’ll believe it when I see it.

 

[haohmaru]

I’ll believe it when I see it.

Deeds not words.

 

[duhmetreE]

"Chocolate Chip?" - Laffy

 

[nsvoyageurs]

Oilers hire Jeff Jackson as CEO of Hockey Operations. Jackson was once Connor McDavid's agent (and a former NY Rangers player briefly in the 1980s). Oilers want to sign him long term (Duh!). Team sucking/not making deep playoff runs likely influences his decision more than hiring his ex-agent. He's not winning a Cup there in near future; not with that roster. Goaltending and defence issues. Capped out, or not far from it without deleting big salary.

 

[cheech70]

 

[Fitzy]

If I thought effort was the issue I'd feel more inspired.

 

[TGWL]

Maybe Laf becomes our version of Phil Kessel ? I'd accept that especially with a Cup or two ! The stats for near the same amount of games is not all that far apart looking at Phil's development . Hopefully this is the season Laf takes flight.....I'm not ready to give up just yet . Maybe Lavi will be the magic pill....I sure hope so.

I don't really know what this means. What is our version of Phil Kessel? Because the other version of Kessel flew on his skates and had one of the quickest puck releases in the NHL.

I’ll believe it when I see it.

Feels like the entire team has been saying that for 12 years.

 

[UnSandvich]

If that's the case, given the roster's issues with Gallant's "coaching", or really lack thereof, we will hopefully see a total buy-in to Laviolette's gameplan. On paper at least, this is one of the most talented lineups Laviolette's had in years. Now we need execution, top-to-bottom.

 

[IDvsEGO]

If that's the case, given the roster's issues with Gallant's "coaching", or really lack thereof, we will hopefully see a total buy-in to Laviolette's gameplan. On paper at least, this is one of the most talented lineups Laviolette's had in years. Now we need execution, top-to-bottom.

More forward talent, and better goalie than he had in Nashville, but slightly weaker defense but also a lot of upside.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Texas Stars Sign Defenseman Ben Zloty to One-Year Contract | Texas Stars | AHL Affiliate to Dallas Stars

Located at the H-E-B Center at Cedar Park - an exciting atmosphere for hockey and entertainment! American Hockey League | Dallas Stars Affiliate.

www.texasstars.com

Unfortunate

This year's Philippe Myers... Potentially.

Doesn't happen often.

 

[duhmetreE]

More forward talent, and better goalie than he had in Nashville, but slightly weaker defense but also a lot of upside.

Was the defense that good before Lavi and Housley got there?

 

[Machinehead]

If I thought effort was the issue I'd feel more inspired.

Right, that's the thing for me. I know the chip is there. In 2022, they hung in there and snuck past two teams beating the hell out of them 5v5. Those wins were all heart and it doesn't get talked about because people love telling themselves this team is better than they are.

They get first-round-exit results on the ice, and to be quite honest, they probably have a first-round-exit roster.

 

[Machinehead]

On paper at least, this is one of the most talented lineups Laviolette's had in years.

What????

A healthy Caps forward corps still blows ours to smithereens.

The Capitals are getting older and I think selling last deadline was smart, but everyone is forgetting that Backstrom and Wilson played 72 games put together in 22-23.

 

[Fitzy]

Right, that's the thing for me. I know the chip is there. In 2022, they hung in there and snuck past two teams beating the hell out of them 5v5. Those wins were all heart and it doesn't get talked about because people love telling themselves this team is better than they are.

They get first-round-exit results on the ice, and to be quite honest, they probably have a first-round-exit roster.

My take is a little less nuanced I guess it just seems to me that the 'good' teams in the NHL all have a lot of flaws and the odds of winning any given series are pretty close to 50-50 depending on the breaks.

I see a lot of okay teams and a lot of terrible teams and not much in between.

But it is interesting that we arguably had a 'stronger' roster from 2012-2015 given no one was even hitting 70 points on those rosters. Makes you wonder what the appropriate way to build a winning team is.

 

[duhmetreE]

What????

A healthy Caps forward corps still blows ours to smithereens.

The Capitals are getting older and I think selling last deadline was smart, but everyone is forgetting that Backstrom and Wilson played 72 games put together in 22-23.

I think you vastly under rate our talent

We definitely sucked at a lot of things. Production should come with competent teamwork and gameplan

I do not correlate lack of production as a lack of talent but a major coaching and teamwork issue

 

[Fitzy]

I think you vastly under rate our talent

We definitely sucked at a lot of things. Production should come with competent teamwork and gameplan

The talent is alright it’s just that our skilled guys are all relatively one dimensional in the way they play the game.

Kreider needs to recapture his vertical threat side of his game, Panarin needs to relearn to attack occasionally from the boards in, and Zibanejad needs to shoot directly off the carry with greater frequency. Fox needs to use more of the ice surface than he’s currently comfortable with

Our skill guys have become very predictable in their approach- and it makes us very easy to play against.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

What????

A healthy Caps forward corps still blows ours to smithereens.

The Capitals are getting older and I think selling last deadline was smart, but everyone is forgetting that Backstrom and Wilson played 72 games put together in 22-23.

This isn’t even a little bit true.

If you were to put together the top 5 forwards from both rosters combined, only one of them would be a cap.

Backstrom is cooked.

 

[duhmetreE]

The talent is alright it’s just that our skilled guys are all relatively one dimensional in the way they play the game.

Kreider needs to recapture his vertical threat side of his game, Panarin needs to relearn to attack occasionally from the boards in, and Zibanejad needs to shoot directly off the carry with greater frequency. Fox needs to use more of the ice surface than he’s currently comfortable with

Our skill guys have become very predictable in their approach- and it makes us very easy to play against.

It’s hard to play any different than we did when no one knows what’s going on.

We need A LOT more from our big guns. We need a competent system that can function in modern day NHL. We need players to have roles. Imagine playing like a team.

Maybe I’m over selling what good coaching can bring to this team…. But I don’t think I am. Our practices, teamwork, system, etc were embarrassing.

 

[Machinehead]

My take is a little less nuanced I guess it just seems to me that the 'good' teams in the NHL all have a lot of flaws and the odds of winning any given series are pretty close to 50-50 depending on the breaks.

I see a lot of okay teams and a lot of terrible teams and not much in between.

But it is interesting that we arguably had a 'stronger' roster from 2012-2015 given no one was even hitting 70 points on those rosters. Makes you wonder what the appropriate way to build a winning team is.

You also have to take into account that scoring has gone absolutely nuclear, a fact that is still somewhat lost in the discourse imo. Laf and Kakko's "solid production for all 5v5" would barely be 20 points adjusted for back then.

I think the Rangers can have a good roster if a lot goes right, and like you said, nobody is tremendous. My thing is that people talk about this roster like it blows you away on paper. It really doesn't.

The other thing is that the only elite forwards are Panarin who everyone thinks sucks, and Kreider in his "elite complement player" sort of way, and he's also heavily criticized. It makes the whole thing feel like double talk to me.

This isn’t even a little bit true.

If you were to put together the top 5 forwards from both rosters combined, only one of them would be a cap.

Backstrom is cooked.

So is our only star forward according to you.

Exactly my point about "the roster is amazing but we hate every player on it" double talk.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

You also have to take into account that scoring has gone absolutely nuclear, a fact that is still somewhat lost in the discourse imo. Laf and Kakko's "solid production for all 5v5" would barely be 20 points adjusted for back then.

I think the Rangers can have a good roster if a lot goes right, and like you said, nobody is tremendous. My thing is that people talk about this roster like it blows you away on paper. It really doesn't.

The other thing is that the only elite forwards are Panarin who everyone thinks sucks, and Kreider in his "elite complement player" sort of way, and he's also heavily criticized. It makes the whole thing feel like double talk to me.
So is our only star forward according to you.

Exactly my point about "the roster is amazing but we hate every player on it" double talk.

Never said Panarin was cooked. He’s overrated af, declining and a playoff zero but cooked he’s not.

I don’t think saying that the top players on this team are better than the caps top forwards is claiming that they’re amazing.