Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part II: Anything Goes

[GoAwayPanarin]

Stepan playing against Crosby, Stamkos, Kopitar, Bergeron, McDavid, Tavares, Barkov etc is a big difference from Miller playing against 3rd liners. Yes, he has better linemates, but they also play against better players.

And Stepan is a much better player overall than Miller. If you take cap-hit into account, that levels it a bit, but in my opinion not enough when you see what Stepan contributes defensively. Miller on the PK is not something I want to see. The whole "powerkill" hype I never understood.

Miller is a good player, but with his insanely high s% this year, which was close to Draisaitl, Crosby, Malkin, and even higher than Kucherov, people have to realize it is highly unlikely he can keep that up

Hes done this 2 seasons in a row now.

 

[Fitzy]

Shooting percentage often says a lot more about the types of shots a player is liable to take rather than their actual shooting ability.

Prucha had a mediocre shot and still shot 23% his first season.

 

[silverfish]

Shooting percentage often says a lot more about the types of shots a player is liable to take rather than their actual shooting ability.

Prucha had a mediocre shot and still shot 23% his first season.

This is where a metric like xG comes in handy.

RIP Corsica.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Would you give up Skjei, Bucherov, 1st for MacKinnon?

 

[Inferno]

Stepan playing against Crosby, Stamkos, Kopitar, Bergeron, McDavid, Tavares, Barkov etc is a big difference from Miller playing against 3rd liners. Yes, he has better linemates, but they also play against better players.

And Stepan is a much better player overall than Miller. If you take cap-hit into account, that levels it a bit, but in my opinion not enough when you see what Stepan contributes defensively. Miller on the PK is not something I want to see. The whole "powerkill" hype I never understood.

Miller is a good player, but with his insanely high s% this year, which was close to Draisaitl, Crosby, Malkin, and even higher than Kucherov, people have to realize it is highly unlikely he can keep that up

so the whole article and studies people constantly show...that QOC means nothing compared to QOT...only applies to Girardi, not to Stepan? Got it.

 

[Fitzy]

Would you give up Skjei, Bucherov, 1st for MacKinnon?

Buchnevich*

The value there seems good, but I'd have to give it a real long think.

Buchnevich still may turn out to be a bust (This is a larger possibility than many people would like to acknowledge), and Skjei's ceiling may be a 2nd pairing guy

But at the same time Mackinnon has hardly been a franchise center in the mold of a Tavares, Matthews or Crosby. He's more a non-star 1A.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Meant to say Buchnevich. My bad.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

1 fan was ready to give the entire team for Hertl. The same fan who thinks Nieves is a first line center and that Marc Staal should move to left wing.

Just because the homeless man under the bridge is shouting that the aliens are coming doesn't mean we should all hide in our basements.

LOL I betcha it wouldn't save us anyhow...

 

[RGY]

NYR can't afford Jagr's salary demands without moving a contract.

Oh what are his contract "demands"? I havent seen it reported anywhere

 

[One Winged Angel]

1 fan was ready to give the entire team for Hertl. The same fan who thinks Nieves is a first line center and that Marc Staal should move to left wing.

Just because the homeless man under the bridge is shouting that the aliens are coming doesn't mean we should all hide in our basements.

 

[Trxjw]

When did this year long debate about Stepan's goal production happen? I feel like every Stepan defense is about things very few people, if any, are actually griping about.

 

[SA16]

I don't think people dislike Stepan because he scores less this year.

They dislike him because they are slow and are under the impression that in order to win you need to roster the 12 fastest skaters possible and a slow skater can not be a good player.

 

[silverfish]

When did this year long debate about Stepan's goal production happen? I feel like every Stepan defense is about things very few people, if any, are actually griping about.

Not a Stepan conversation, per se, but more a shooting % conversation, and how we perceive value on players with high sh% vs low sh%. Stepan is just a good example of perception after a low shooting % year. Perhaps the gripes about Stepan have nothing to do with goals, but, if he shoots to his career %, he's a 60 point player, and maybe more people think he's that "1C".

Reilly Smith is another example.

TJ Oshie is a good example of the opposite (high sh% perception).

 

[One Winged Angel]

Oh what are his contract "demands"? I havent seen it reported anywhere

Yeah, clearly assumed demands based on the fact that Jagr hasn't signed yet.

I wonder what he's actually asking for.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Buchnevich*

The value there seems good, but I'd have to give it a real long think.

Buchnevich still may turn out to be a bust (This is a larger possibility than many people would like to acknowledge), and Skjei's ceiling may be a 2nd pairing guy

But at the same time Mackinnon has hardly been a franchise center in the mold of a Tavares, Matthews or Crosby. He's more a non-star 1A.

7th + DeAngelo should be fair.

I think that is a bit too much to give up for MacKinnon for my liking. The value isn't too terrible. I dunno.

 

[One Winged Angel]

I think people dislike Stepan because he was admittedly bad in the playoffs on top of not having a great year.

My biggest problem is that he doesn't look like an athlete that values strength and conditioning and that in 7 years in the league, he never bothered to improve his skating.

If Brian Boyle can go from being a dumpster fire to a respectable skater, why couldn't Stepan?

Goal scoring isn't my problem with him. It's his lacksadaisical approach to conditioning (clearly a problem this season and his skating). That's a guy that's supposed to be in a leadership role as well, which is scary.

Part of the reason why I think he was traded.

 

[Irishguy42]

I think people dislike Stepan because he was admittedly bad in the playoffs on top of not having a great year.

My biggest problem is that he doesn't look like an athlete that values strength and conditioning and that in 7 years in the league, he never bothered to improve his skating.

If Brian Boyle can go from being a dumpster fire to a respectable skater, why couldn't Stepan?

Goal scoring isn't my problem with him. It's his lacksadaisical approach to conditioning (clearly a problem this season and his skating). That's a guy that's supposed to be in a leadership role as well, which is scary.

Part of the reason why I think he was traded.

Phil Kessel doesn't look like an athlete that values strength and conditioning.

 

[TheTakedown]

Not a Stepan conversation, per se, but more a shooting % conversation, and how we perceive value on players with high sh% vs low sh%. Stepan is just a good example of perception after a low shooting % year. Perhaps the gripes about Stepan have nothing to do with goals, but, if he shoots to his career %, he's a 60 point player, and maybe more people think he's that "1C".

Reilly Smith is another example.

TJ Oshie is a good example of the opposite (high sh% perception).

Here's the thing... Stepan, at age 27, has never reached 60 points... Every year he's had an excuse. 1st it was "he's a rookie/sophomore" then it was "he's holding out he deserves more money" then it was "he broke his leg"... Now it's "he's 27"....

What's happening is that the excuses, in themselves individually, aren't all that terrible, but there's been a reason every year that's stopped stepan from reaching 60 points. Stepan is very much a toews-lite player, and I believe that he's got maybe 1 more good year left in him before he plataeu's, then starts a steady decline.

Like rangerboy is always saying -- trade a player a year early rather than a year late. In a weak draft, stepan + a backup goalie brought back a 7th overall pick + a top rated offensive defenseman prospect. What happens when, in a year from now, stepan has another 50-55 pt year, is now 28 years old, with an active No Trade Clause, in a draft that is much stronger.... I'll bet that at that point stepan brings back maybe an established middle pair defenseman and a 3rd/4th round pick.

Is it worth the difference in returns? For one more year or Stepan? (Granted I know my trade values are hypotheticals)....

I think not. They made the right choice moving stepan

 

[McDonagh27]

Phil Kessel doesn't look like an athlete that values strength and conditioning.

True, but he is not asked to be the man in Pittsburgh. That's Crosby and Malkin's job. Stepan was essentially the player supposed to lead us offensively, and he underwhelmed, especially in the playoffs.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Phil Kessel doesn't look like an athlete that values strength and conditioning.

He looks like his middle name is cheeseburger.

However, he's highly skilled and his skating is world class.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Phil Kessel doesn't look like an athlete that values strength and conditioning.

Yeah, it's unfair to judge Stepan's conditioning based on how he looks.

The fact that he has been a top 6 NHL center who has played into the playoffs all but 1 season in his career should tell you his conditioning is just fine.

As for his skating, he's not a fast skater, but he is a strong skater. Not sure why people seem to think he's a bad skater just because he's around average to below average speed wise. He's solid on his skates with good balance, has strong pivots and knows how to use his feet down low in the o zone to maximize his effectiveness. I think Stepan is a strong skater, he's just slow and you can't teach speed.

Plus, to think Stepan hasn't worked on his skating or doesn't value conditioning is asinine projection at its finest.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think people dislike Stepan because he was admittedly bad in the playoffs on top of not having a great year.

My biggest problem is that he doesn't look like an athlete that values strength and conditioning and that in 7 years in the league, he never bothered to improve his skating.

If Brian Boyle can go from being a dumpster fire to a respectable skater, why couldn't Stepan?

Goal scoring isn't my problem with him. It's his lacksadaisical approach to conditioning (clearly a problem this season and his skating). That's a guy that's supposed to be in a leadership role as well, which is scary.

Part of the reason why I think he was traded.

Boyle had room for growth with his skating, Stepan has gotten everything he can out of what he has.

Dude has had a skating coach since he was 14. He isn't a bad skater at all in the technical sense, hes just slow and trust me, the lack of foot speed is not from a lack of effort.

I don't know why people have brought up the conditioning aspect. Are you guys tracking his blood oxygen levels after every shift?

Also Kessel isn't fat, he has a fat face.

 

[Irishguy42]

True, but he is not asked to be the man in Pittsburgh. That's Crosby and Malkin's job. Stepan was essentially the player supposed to lead us offensively, and he underwhelmed, especially in the playoffs.

He looks like his middle name is cheeseburger.

However, he's highly skilled and his skating is world class.

My point is, let's not judge a hockey player by how they might look.

 

[silverfish]

Here's the thing... Stepan, at age 27, has never reached 60 points... Every year he's had an excuse. 1st it was "he's a rookie/sophomore" then it was "he's holding out he deserves more money" then it was "he broke his leg"... Now it's "he's 27"....

What's happening is that the excuses, in themselves individually, aren't all that terrible, but there's been a reason every year that's stopped stepan from reaching 60 points. Stepan is very much a toews-lite player, and I believe that he's got maybe 1 more good year left in him before he plataeu's, then starts a steady decline.

Like rangerboy is always saying -- trade a player a year early rather than a year late. In a weak draft, stepan + a backup goalie brought back a 7th overall pick + a top rated offensive defenseman prospect. What happens when, in a year from now, stepan has another 50-55 pt year, is now 28 years old, with an active No Trade Clause, in a draft that is much stronger.... I'll bet that at that point stepan brings back maybe an established middle pair defenseman and a 3rd/4th round pick.

Is it worth the difference in returns? For one more year or Stepan? (Granted I know my trade values are hypotheticals)....

I think not. They made the right choice moving stepan

Maybe. I disagree, but, I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong again.

The question boils down to whether or not you think Stepan is one of the league's top-31 centers. I do. Some people don't. If you don't, you like the trade. If you do, you don't like the trade.

 

[GregSirico]

Alex Kerfoot

https://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2017/7/10/15945634/harvard-graduate-alex-kerfoot-could-fill-rangers-void-at-center

Kerfoot, who turns 23 in August, was the Devils’ fifth-round pick in 2012. Having just finished his senior season at Harvard, he could become a free agent on August 15th. Just as Jimmy Vesey and Kevin Hayes did before signing with the Rangers. It appears that Kerfoot does intend to take that route.