Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXVIII: 3-2-1 TDL almost here!

[kovazub94]

I hope Lundkvist is not reading these trade ideas, if so why is he signing his entry level just to be traded to Buffalo?

Buch is also going to extend long term just to be traded to Buffalo?

Everyone is not coming over or resigning with the Rangers for the fear of being traded to Buffalo. Did I get this right?

 

[RangerBoy]

The benefit of Eichel is that at 24, he fits the timeline of the team better than Zibanejad. Let's say that the team continues to show overall improvement as the young players improve. Next year, we could be a bubble team that makes it in. The following year, we could be a team that makes the playoffs comfortably and wins a round or two. The year after that, we start to look like contenders. At that point, Zibanejad is 31 and likely has a hefty cap hit, declining production, and 3-4 years left on his contract. While Eichel would be 27 with 3 years remaining on his current contract. The team would be hitting their Cup contention years at the same time as their 1C's prime years.

Does this scenario have issues? Of course it does. Eichel will be expensive to trade for. We will almost certainly have to move Buchnevich, Zibanejad, and Strome in other deals either in this offseason or over the course of next year. If Chytil is in the trade, then that opens a big hole behind Eichel. We would have to look for a young 3C that could move up to 2C the following season in the return(s) for Buchnevich, Zibanejad, or Strome.

What's the alternative? We resign Zibanejad and hope he maintains a high level of production from ages 31-34 and that the contract doesn't become an albatross. Or that he maintains a level that is just good enough to center our (hopefully) top flight wingers. And that Chytil progresses to the point where he is the 1C during the Cup contention years, or at least a 1B to to Zibanejad's 1A.

Is Eichel part of the problem in Buffalo? Mike Russo had a column on potential trades a few weeks ago. There was a proposal for the Wild to get Eichel. One of the executives Russo asked what he thought of the trade said Eichel has a character/attitude problem. The executive added Eichel has had these issues since he was 16.

Eichel didn't deserve the $80,000,000 contract. The Sabres ownership gave it to him because CMD got his extension.

Buffalo was a mess before Eichel got there. Buffalo is still a mess after Eichel being there for six seasons.

The alternative is continuing to build the team.

 

[kovazub94]

Because no one on this board has the power to trade him?

Lundkvist doesn't know that.

 

[True Blue]

The benefit of Eichel is that at 24, he fits the timeline of the team better than Zibanejad. Let's say that the team continues to show overall improvement as the young players improve. Next year, we could be a bubble team that makes it in. The following year, we could be a team that makes the playoffs comfortably and wins a round or two. The year after that, we start to look like contenders. At that point, Zibanejad is 31 and likely has a hefty cap hit, declining production, and 3-4 years left on his contract. While Eichel would be 27 with 3 years remaining on his current contract. The team would be hitting their Cup contention years at the same time as their 1C's prime years.

Does this scenario have issues? Of course it does. Eichel will be expensive to trade for. We will almost certainly have to move Buchnevich, Zibanejad, and Strome in other deals either in this offseason or over the course of next year. If Chytil is in the trade, then that opens a big hole behind Eichel. We would have to look for a young 3C that could move up to 2C the following season in the return(s) for Buchnevich, Zibanejad, or Strome.

What's the alternative? We resign Zibanejad and hope he maintains a high level of production from ages 31-34 and that the contract doesn't become an albatross. Or that he maintains a level that is just good enough to center our (hopefully) top flight wingers. And that Chytil progresses to the point where he is the 1C during the Cup contention years, or at least a 1B to to Zibanejad's 1A.

There are alternatives, but they typically are not what people want to hear.

I get that Eichel is a wonderful player. But when I consider the 3 costs that I describe as well as the timeline as when he is in his prime, I just think that it is too much. You are almost scrapping the path that you have been building on and are blowing it up to try to wing it on the fly.

Oh, and (just my view) there is no way that Chytil would not be included in the trade.

 

[RangerBoy]

According to Elliotte Friedman, the Habs wanted to give DeAngelo a contract through next season. The Habs didn't to pay DeAngelo $5.3M which is his salary for next season. The Habs contract offer would have made DeAngelo close to whole from what he would have lost by mutually terminating the contract with the Rangers. He saved under $3M from not accepting the termination. The Habs would have paid him that money. Whole or close to whole. Tony believes there will be other teams interested in him this off-season. 31 Thoughts Podcast.

 

[Off Sides]

Everyone is not coming over or resigning with the Rangers for the fear of being traded to Buffalo. Did I get this right?

If I were the player, ~15 months from UFA, yeah I'm probably not wanting to get traded to Buffalo, or several other locations and have to stay there for the duration of my contract, or until I can be a UFA again in many years.

So yeah I'd definitely consider that when thinking about extending or signing an entry level.

 

[True Blue]

While i agree a trade for Eichel would instantly trigger another move but not many more. The only move would be to zibs to a team that is able to trade a young up coming center and a solid wing choice to step in if need be.

Laf and Krav will never be centers so people need to stop trying to move them to center to try to fix our center problem.

Because my premise is that Buffalo does not do this deal without Chytil, the moves are several. Will need to trade ZBad (having him and Eichel on the Rangers at the same time is just as much a fantasy as having Lafreniere and Kravstove be centers). Will need to trade for Chytil's replacement as well and find a third line center if not married to Strome. So you are back and looking for good young centers. Again.

Getting Eichel does NOT turn us into win now mode. Zibs is nearly 30 signed for 1 more year and will get a massive raise prob say 9m-10m per. What you would be doing is replacing an older zibs who needs that type of money for a younger BEFORE his prime Eichel who is already signed for 4 more years and is only 24! He fits our timeline MUCH MORE than ZIBS every will. This trade would create an even larger window for our team. Creating a true core of players under 26, cept for panarin.

I am not denying that on paper, Eichel fits so much better. And that when comparing costs, his will seem more bang for the buck than ZBad's. But where is the belief that he comes to NY and performs? Or that he is a playoff performer? As a player performer is who this team will need. It becomes Win Now as you have 4 years left before Eichel is 30 and then the same conversation about resigning him to huge money on the downside of his career begin.

Playoff accument nobody knows until that team and player make the playoffs. Your talking about your fear of the unknown. People keep forgetting what buffalo has put Eichel through for his first 5 years in the league. How would you feel? How would you play? Think about that. He wants to win and i dont blame him.

Considering of what you want for the team, that is a pretty big thing to take a chance on with a player that has had a serious injury this year and has certain negative whispers about him throughout the league.

Some will consider this a risk worth taking. And it might be. But it is the costs that steer me away.

The cost of getting him i dont believe will be as massive as people think. It will be basically a 1st or 2 with a prospect like hunter skinner, buch, and possibly something else. We have the pipeline to make this trade, while also being able to use zibanejad as a trade piece to restock the cupboard or get your next 2nd line center in a hockey deal such as the trade that brought zibs here.

You yourself believe that Eichel is one of the top players in the league. Why would Buffalo accept a deal like that? With Lafreniere, Kakko, Shesterkin, Miller and Fox off the table, you had better believe that Buffalo is taking one of the top prospects not in the NHL/AHL in Lundqvist, a cost controlled talented young center in Chytil, a first rounder and a player that they plug into their top line in Buchnevich. To me, there is no way that this has any chance of happening without Chytil.

 

[kovazub94]

If I were the player, ~15 months from UFA, yeah I'm probably not wanting to get traded to Buffalo, or several other locations and have to stay there for the duration of my contract, or until I can be a UFA again in many years.

So yeah I'd definitely consider that when thinking about extending or signing an entry level.

How about Montreal? Or LA? Or Colorado or Vegas? Or another number of teams that have been rumored to be in on Eichel to various degrees?

 

[DudMan28]

As others have pointed out, if we acquire Eichel, it creates a pretty big domino effect at the center position. You probably can't keep Mika & Eichel, so Mika likely gets moved. Can we pay Strome again after too? If not then he gets moved. Chytil likely going the other way for Eichel.

I'm not sure I see the Rangers completely gutting/flipping their top 9 centers in a calendar year. It's possible, but you don't see that happen very often.

 

[Fitzy]

Honestly the Buch+Chytil_1st+Lundkvist deal I've suggested is extremely reasonable. It's arguably only a little more than the Rangers traded for Rick Nash.

Buch=Dubinsky
Anisimov=Chytil
Lundkvist>Erixon
1st=1st

Nash was 27 at the time of the trade, and didn't have the history of offensive production Eichel does. Erixon was relatively highly touted at the time- we had dealt 2 2nd rounders for him recently.

I'm not saying I pull the trigger on that deal necessarily, but it's an extremely fair offer for a top 15 center.

 

[bobbop]

Is Eichel part of the problem in Buffalo? Mike Russo had a column on potential trades a few weeks ago. There was a proposal for the Wild to get Eichel. One of the executives Russo asked what he thought of the trade said Eichel has a character/attitude problem. The executive added Eichel has had these issues since he was 16.

Eichel didn't deserve the $80,000,000 contract. The Sabres ownership gave it to him because CMD got his extension.

Buffalo was a mess before Eichel got there. Buffalo is still a mess after Eichel being there for six seasons.

The alternative is continuing to build the team.

This.

 

[LORDE]

Isn't there smoke around Eichel off ice... and by that I don't mean attitude.

 

[SA16]

So this may be true, but it hasn't hurt Tampa in the past.

That is largely because they got bailed out with Callahan and then Kucherov LTIRs.

 

[NYR Viper]

That is largely because they got bailed out with Callahan and then Kucherov LTIRs.

I mean they have been able to trade away players and create markets when they were tight against the cap. JT Miller is one example.

Hell, they'll probably do it again this off-season

 

[Kodiak]

There are alternatives, but they typically are not what people want to hear.

I get that Eichel is a wonderful player. But when I consider the 3 costs that I describe as well as the timeline as when he is in his prime, I just think that it is too much. You are almost scrapping the path that you have been building on and are blowing it up to try to wing it on the fly.

Oh, and (just my view) there is no way that Chytil would not be included in the trade.

I don't see an Eichel trade as necessarily scrapping the current path or blowing it all up. Believe me, I understand why a potential Eichel trade might not feel right to many posters. It sounds like a trade from the bad old days where we sell our future short for the latest star player to become available. There's a couple of reasons why this is different.

First, we are not acquiring an aging veteran in decline in the hopes of somehow turning a losing team into a winner. We would be acquiring 24 year old to add to our young core with the goal of gradually improving and contending when the core matures. This is not a quick fix. This would be a move that would pay off 2-3 years down the road.

Second, we are in a much better position to make this type of move and not decimate our system. Let's look at the names that are in the mix: Buchnevich, Chytil, Lundkvist, Kravtsov. Who is not in the mix? Lafreniere, Kakko, Fox, Shesterkin, Miller, Lindgren. Even if we moved 2 or 3 of the players in that first list, the young core of the team is still intact.

 

[ETTER DE]

Honestly if I'm making a move on Eichel it's for him to replace Zibanejad, not Strome although it is dependent on what Mika is looking for on his next deal.

If Mika is looking for a 8+ AAV then I'd rather have Eichel at 10m for his 25-29 seasons than Mika at 8-9m for his 30-36 seasons.

Eichel may have ten years left as an elite center, Zibanejad maybe 5. Rangers will make a big offer for Eichel. It may include Zibanejad or he is traded seperately. Eichel, a little bit younger and with more skill can be center in Rangers first run with Panarin, Kreider, Trouba etc. And in the second run (if they can resign him) with the younger guys. Having Fox and Eichel here the next 10 years looks tasty. Of course if Zibanejad is willing to resign for a shorter contract with a discount (and Buffalo does not insist that he is part of the trade), you resign him.

 

[Fitzy]

I don't see an Eichel trade as necessarily scrapping the current path or blowing it all up. Believe me, I understand why a potential Eichel trade might not feel right to many posters. It sounds like a trade from the bad old days where we sell our future short for the latest star player to become available. There's a couple of reasons why this is different.

First, we are not acquiring an aging veteran in decline in the hopes of somehow turning a losing team into a winner. We would be acquiring 24 year old to add to our young core with the goal of gradually improving and contending when the core matures. This is not a quick fix. This would be a move that would pay off 2-3 years down the road.

Second, we are in a much better position to make this type of move and not decimate our system. Let's look at the names that are in the mix: Buchnevich, Chytil, Lundkvist, Kravtsov. Who is not in the mix? Lafreniere, Kakko, Fox, Shesterkin, Miller, Lindgren. Even if we moved 2 or 3 of the players in that first list, the young core of the team is still intact.

For me, the toughest question with Eichel isn't about the cost or the timing, it's about the player.

1) Does he have character issues?
2) What kind of playoff performer is he?
3) How and who on this roster does he develop chemistry with
4) Is he handed the captaincy after a trade?

Tough questions.

 

[SA16]

I mean they have been able to trade away players and create markets when they were tight against the cap. JT Miller is one example.

Hell, they'll probably do it again this off-season

That wasn't a cap dump. They traded him for a 1st round pick. That's like if we made it work by trading an extended Buch or something.

 

[NYR Viper]

That wasn't a cap dump. They traded him for a 1st round pick. That's like if we made it work by trading an extended Buch or something.

I mean, they were over the cap and traded a redundant player for futures. The scenario was trading Zibanejad or Buch if Eichel is acquired and they need to be traded. That's similar to JT Miller (except Buch and Zib are better)

 

[duhmetreE]

Honestly the Buch+Chytil_1st+Lundkvist deal I've suggested is extremely reasonable. It's arguably only a little more than the Rangers traded for Rick Nash.

Buch=Dubinsky
Anisimov=Chytil
Lundkvist>Erixon
1st=1st

Nash was 27 at the time of the trade, and didn't have the history of offensive production Eichel does. Erixon was relatively highly touted at the time- we had dealt 2 2nd rounders for him recently.

I'm not saying I pull the trigger on that deal necessarily, but it's an extremely fair offer for a top 15 center.

I vehemently laugh and hang up.

Strome, Buch, Jones and a 1st. That's the only way it works in my mind.

Stome -> Eichel
Buch -> Kravtsov

net cost is essentially Jones and a 1st

I still would be hesitant to commit to Eichel.

 

[haveandare]

Is Eichel part of the problem in Buffalo? Mike Russo had a column on potential trades a few weeks ago. There was a proposal for the Wild to get Eichel. One of the executives Russo asked what he thought of the trade said Eichel has a character/attitude problem. The executive added Eichel has had these issues since he was 16.

Eichel didn't deserve the $80,000,000 contract. The Sabres ownership gave it to him because CMD got his extension.

Buffalo was a mess before Eichel got there. Buffalo is still a mess after Eichel being there for six seasons.

The alternative is continuing to build the team.

Exactly. Aside from scoring points, which is certainly valuable and not to be underplayed, what has Eichel done for that team over now six years? They’re still absolutely awful, inconsistent, easy to play against. They get into long funks they can’t break out of. One player can only be asked to do so much, but a 10M ppg 1C captain should be expected to do as much as anyone and he hasn’t made much of a difference for them at all.

 

[Fitzy]

I'm hesitant to commit to him too, but whether Gorton thinks that's fair? I'd bet a decent amount that my listed proposal is his best offer.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

But why does Buch sign that?

He can be a UFA July 1st 2022.

Instead he going to sign long term with the Rangers and risk playing out that contract wherever they'd send him?



Lundkvist too, rights only last until June 1st 2022,

Another year in Sweden then signing with any NHL team
or
Signs with the Rangers and is traded to wherever, and that team can hold his (entry and RFA level) rights until age 27.


Or are we assuming the players or their agents have not already thought about that or Buffalo /etc have not?

Short answer...because he is coming off a career year and has the opportunity to get paid with term locked in today. The NYR could still trade him this offseason w no guarantee of his role/production on his next team, and then he will have to try to get a new deal from there. If the NYR offer him $5-6M x 4-5, that is still real $ on the table...no guarantee if he is moved elsewhere this summer he will be able to maintain his production / get a better offer a year from n0w.

 

[kovazub94]

As others have pointed out, if we acquire Eichel, it creates a pretty big domino effect at the center position. You probably can't keep Mika & Eichel, so Mika likely gets moved. Can we pay Strome again after too? If not then he gets moved. Chytil likely going the other way for Eichel.

I'm not sure I see the Rangers completely gutting/flipping their top 9 centers in a calendar year. It's possible, but you don't see that happen very often.

A very important consideration is that acquiring Eichel can cause a loss of all three current centers.

 

[True Blue]

I don't see an Eichel trade as necessarily scrapping the current path or blowing it all up. Believe me, I understand why a potential Eichel trade might not feel right to many posters. It sounds like a trade from the bad old days where we sell our future short for the latest star player to become available. There's a couple of reasons why this is different.

First, we are not acquiring an aging veteran in decline in the hopes of somehow turning a losing team into a winner. We would be acquiring 24 year old to add to our young core with the goal of gradually improving and contending when the core matures. This is not a quick fix. This would be a move that would pay off 2-3 years down the road.

Second, we are in a much better position to make this type of move and not decimate our system. Let's look at the names that are in the mix: Buchnevich, Chytil, Lundkvist, Kravtsov. Who is not in the mix? Lafreniere, Kakko, Fox, Shesterkin, Miller, Lindgren. Even if we moved 2 or 3 of the players in that first list, the young core of the team is still intact.

Don't get me wrong, this is not about the bad old days of trading for each and every veteran player. I get that and that is not why I am more and more becoming entrenched "No Eichel" camp. When I say blowing up the path, I mean more in the way that the team seems to be being built out. For one reason or another, the team seems to be on the path of elite wings, a dynamic and diverse defense and great goaltending. That will now shift to having that elite center. You cannot have or pay elite everywhere. The foundation that is here is strength on wings not at center. At least up front. To change that would be to take a hammer to what you have been building and try to remake it on the fly.

At least the way that I see it. Again, Eichel is a wonderful player. And I could very well be off in my viewpoint. But just seems like it sets off too many dominoes.