Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXVIII: 3-2-1 TDL almost here!

[B17 Apricots]

If you're building this team from scratch Eichel is 100% your guy. Ultra competitive, called out his team for dogshit effort and performances a number of times. Its just O'Reilly 2.0, no one wants to play there. He'll be fine away from Buffalo. Im very eh about acquiring him strictly for $. The kids have big time potential and with Panarin, Trouba and Kreiders money I dont like how things shape out. Without them, 100%. I think you sit tight on Zibanejad, evaluate his final year and go from there. Something I think they really need to keep in the back pocket if they dont intend on retaining Mika is moving Laf or Kravtsov to center. Theyre talented enough, and yes itll take some time and yes itll be a process but it doesn't take much imagination to envision the potential of your top 2 centers being Laf/Kravtsov/Chytil

 

[True Blue]

I don't see that package on the table. For me, it's probably (2) of those players and a lesser piece. So:

Chytil + Buch + 1st + Howden

or

Chytil + Lundqvist + 1st + Howden

If you are Buffalo, you cannot come back with anything less. We know what is off the table. As such, everything else is on for a player that you perceive as an elite top line center in the prime of his career. Howden does nothing for most on this board, but he does something for Buffalo?

Your second scenario does not work as there needs to be cash that is going back to Buffalo. The first does not work as it does not include a top prospects.

I'll say this, I have less of an issue re-signing Eichel at 29-30 than Zibanejad (at least right now). And the team will be in a MUCH different spot in 4 years than they are now.

You will still be looking at making a long term commitment to a player that is 30. Being more ok with it, does not mean being completely ok with it. Maybe you are, that is fair. I am just saying that the same issues will be up and running in 4 years.

You're correct in that a trade for someone like Eichel will mean dominoes elsewhere in the line-up. I'm okay with that. Locking in a premier 1C is priority #1 for me. I'll go find another 3C (or perhaps Barron is that guy). The one thing the Rangers have going for them is that with the hard cap for the next couple of years, we will see veterans left on the outside looking in when otherwise they would have been signed early. Guys like Haula and Soderberg come to mind just this past off-season who will be available again this off-season as UFA's. There will be more. And these guys can be had for low cap hits and term. Yes the team will need a long-term solution there but it won't need to happen 5 minutes after an Eichel deal.

If RIGHT now, you subtracted Chytil and Buch, traded Mika and inserted Eichel, how much better is this team?

On the Rangers, he doesn't have to be THE man though. That is what he is in Buffalo and his stats have been very good up to this point. He would be playing with Panarin, Kreider, Strome, Kaako, Laf, Kravtsov and have Fox, Jones, Miller, etc on defense. It's night and day from where he is coming from.

Make no mistake. You make a deal for a player like that, and he is absolutely coming here to be the straw that stirs the drink. Eichel becomes THE man with such a deal. You are only making this deal because you believe that his addition is what is needed to win the Cup.

 

[rangers1314]

 

[Off Sides]

I hope Lundkvist is not reading these trade ideas, if so why is he signing his entry level just to be traded to Buffalo?

 

[cwede]

folks speculating Hajek might go to Hartford w Jones in town

this posted yesterday, but i have not seen any indication that Hajek was assign to taxi...

 

[duhmetreE]

In a theoretical Eichel trade, Salary MUST be going the other way. Not going to take on 10M and send ELC.

Strome and Buch are the start of the package imo

 

[Off Sides]

Buch is also going to extend long term just to be traded to Buffalo?

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Buch is also going to extend long term just to be traded to Buffalo?

It's not Gorton's usual MO, so for that reason I doubt it happens, but it is a move he could pull. Ink Buchnevich for 4-5 years with a clause that kicks in 7/1/22 and trade him beforehand.

 

[NYR Viper]

If you are Buffalo, you cannot come back with anything less. We know what is off the table. As such, everything else is on for a player that you perceive as an elite top line center in the prime of his career. Howden does nothing for most on this board, but he does something for Buffalo?

Your second scenario does not work as there needs to be cash that is going back to Buffalo. The first does not work as it does not include a top prospects.

You will still be looking at making a long term commitment to a player that is 30. Being more ok with it, does not mean being completely ok with it. Maybe you are, that is fair. I am just saying that the same issues will be up and running in 4 years.

If RIGHT now, you subtracted Chytil and Buch, traded Mika and inserted Eichel, how much better is this team?

Make no mistake. You make a deal for a player like that, and he is absolutely coming here to be the straw that stirs the drink. Eichel becomes THE man with such a deal. You are only making this deal because you believe that his addition is what is needed to win the Cup.

What comes back for Mika?

Also, the team is clearly still building. Any single player they add won't be THE man unless that guy is McDavid. The team has too much talent and depth to have anyone be THE man. Hell, Panarin is here. He's the best player in the world outside of maybe a small handful (McDavid, Draisatl, Matthews?, Mackinnon?). SO the idea that one guy is going to be brought in to carry the team is a fallacy. He's a good step in the right direction long term to helping this team be succesful.

 

[NYR Viper]

In a theoretical Eichel trade, Salary MUST be going the other way. Not going to take on 10M and send ELC.

Strome and Buch are the start of the package imo

Salary can be shed elsewhere.

Trade prospects and young players for Eichel

Trade Zibanejad for prospects/picks/young players

Trade Buch for prospects/picks/young players

They don't have to be the same deal.

 

[Harbour Dog]

I hope Lundkvist is not reading these trade ideas, if so why is he signing his entry level just to be traded to Buffalo?

This reason for him to hold out may actually have some merit to it.

I still think it's very unlikely, but if he pays any attention to trade rumors, he has to know that being a Sabre for his entire ELC is on the table. Whether that is a deterrence or not, who knows; potentially being paired with Dahlin would have to be a bit of a draw.

 

[Fitzy]

Salary can be shed elsewhere.

Trade prospects and young players for Eichel

Trade Zibanejad for prospects/picks/young players

Trade Buch for prospects/picks/young players

They don't have to be the same deal.

They don't, but once you make the first move, you're in that situation where the league knows that you HAVE to move salary before the season and that damages leverage.

 

[Off Sides]

It's not Gorton's usual MO, so for that reason I doubt it happens, but it is a move he could pull. Ink Buchnevich for 4-5 years with a clause that kicks in 7/1/22 and trade him beforehand.

But why does Buch sign that?

He can be a UFA July 1st 2022.

Instead he going to sign long term with the Rangers and risk playing out that contract wherever they'd send him?



Lundkvist too, rights only last until June 1st 2022,

Another year in Sweden then signing with any NHL team
or
Signs with the Rangers and is traded to wherever, and that team can hold his (entry and RFA level) rights until age 27.


Or are we assuming the players or their agents have not already thought about that or Buffalo /etc have not?

 

[NYR Viper]

They don't, but once you make the first move, you're in that situation where the league knows that you HAVE to move salary before the season and that damages leverage.

So this may be true, but it hasn't hurt Tampa in the past.

 

[Kodiak]

A trade for Eichel will instantly trigger a lot of other moves that will need to be made.

Lafreniere is not a center. Neither is Kravstov. So right of the bat, you will need to replace Chytil. That is one trade that will need to be made. The Rangers also instantly become forced sellers as they try to trade Zibanejad. You are now also entering next year with Kakko and Kravstov as your top-2 right wings. While the thought may be exciting, the results may not be. Then there is the cost of getting the rest of the roster to be one that can make a deep playoff run. There will be costs associated with that as well. The second Eichel arrives you have now moved squarely into the "win now" mode as you hae 4 years in which to win the Cup. After that, Eichel's contract is up and he is 30 years old and the same debates will start as you are having about Zibanejad's next contract.

With blinders on, Eichel is a wonderful player. But he changes not one iota of whether or not this team is ready for a deep playoff run. Plus, and we have seen this before many times, what is his playoff acumen? Don't make the mistake that by trading for him, he would become THE man. Is that who he is?

When you start to factor in the costs in getting him, the cost ramifications to the salary cap, the cost to build around him and the timing, such a move starts not to have such a rosy outlook. Especially as you examine what the landscape looks like right after you press the button to make this deal.

The benefit of Eichel is that at 24, he fits the timeline of the team better than Zibanejad. Let's say that the team continues to show overall improvement as the young players improve. Next year, we could be a bubble team that makes it in. The following year, we could be a team that makes the playoffs comfortably and wins a round or two. The year after that, we start to look like contenders. At that point, Zibanejad is 31 and likely has a hefty cap hit, declining production, and 3-4 years left on his contract. While Eichel would be 27 with 3 years remaining on his current contract. The team would be hitting their Cup contention years at the same time as their 1C's prime years.

Does this scenario have issues? Of course it does. Eichel will be expensive to trade for. We will almost certainly have to move Buchnevich, Zibanejad, and Strome in other deals either in this offseason or over the course of next year. If Chytil is in the trade, then that opens a big hole behind Eichel. We would have to look for a young 3C that could move up to 2C the following season in the return(s) for Buchnevich, Zibanejad, or Strome.

What's the alternative? We resign Zibanejad and hope he maintains a high level of production from ages 31-34 and that the contract doesn't become an albatross. Or that he maintains a level that is just good enough to center our (hopefully) top flight wingers. And that Chytil progresses to the point where he is the 1C during the Cup contention years, or at least a 1B to to Zibanejad's 1A.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

A trade for Eichel will instantly trigger a lot of other moves that will need to be made.

Lafreniere is not a center. Neither is Kravstov. So right of the bat, you will need to replace Chytil. That is one trade that will need to be made. The Rangers also instantly become forced sellers as they try to trade Zibanejad. You are now also entering next year with Kakko and Kravstov as your top-2 right wings. While the thought may be exciting, the results may not be. Then there is the cost of getting the rest of the roster to be one that can make a deep playoff run. There will be costs associated with that as well. The second Eichel arrives you have now moved squarely into the "win now" mode as you hae 4 years in which to win the Cup. After that, Eichel's contract is up and he is 30 years old and the same debates will start as you are having about Zibanejad's next contract.

With blinders on, Eichel is a wonderful player. But he changes not one iota of whether or not this team is ready for a deep playoff run. Plus, and we have seen this before many times, what is his playoff acumen? Don't make the mistake that by trading for him, he would become THE man. Is that who he is?

When you start to factor in the costs in getting him, the cost ramifications to the salary cap, the cost to build around him and the timing, such a move starts not to have such a rosy outlook. Especially as you examine what the landscape looks like right after you press the button to make this deal.

While i agree a trade for Eichel would instantly trigger another move but not many more. The only move would be to zibs to a team that is able to trade a young up coming center and a solid wing choice to step in if need be.

Laf and Krav will never be centers so people need to stop trying to move them to center to try to fix our center problem.

Getting Eichel does NOT turn us into win now mode. Zibs is nearly 30 signed for 1 more year and will get a massive raise prob say 9m-10m per. What you would be doing is replacing an older zibs who needs that type of money for a younger BEFORE his prime Eichel who is already signed for 4 more years and is only 24! He fits our timeline MUCH MORE than ZIBS every will. This trade would create an even larger window for our team. Creating a true core of players under 26, cept for panarin.

Playoff accument nobody knows until that team and player make the playoffs. Your talking about your fear of the unknown. People keep forgetting what buffalo has put Eichel through for his first 5 years in the league. How would you feel? How would you play? Think about that. He wants to win and i dont blame him.

The cost of getting him i dont believe will be as massive as people think. It will be basically a 1st or 2 with a prospect like hunter skinner, buch, and possibly something else. We have the pipeline to make this trade, while also being able to use zibanejad as a trade piece to restock the cupboard or get your next 2nd line center in a hockey deal such as the trade that brought zibs here.

 

[cheech70]

I wonder if the front office thinks Barron could be Filip if Filip is traded

 

[MarkMessyay11]

I don't think Eichel comes here for anything less than Chytil+Lundkvist+1st+Buchnevich

Value wise, you aren’t wrong. But the only scenario where a star player is traded for “equal” value is in a hockey trade when it’s 1 for 1 or even 2 for 1 - like the PLD/Laine + Roslovic deal.

But “equal” value doesn’t necessarily mean “fair” value. Considering all the circumstances - Buffalo’s current roster/play, Eichel’s unhappiness, Buffalo having 1 full calendar year to move Eichel before he controls his destiny, etc. - there isn’t enough in their corner for them to command a return like that unless some GM decides Eichel is THE piece and stakes their job on that decision. Gorton may very well do that, but it doesn’t seem to fit his MO.

I would draw a line at one of Chytil/Kravstov as a centerpiece and then, depending on which they choose, the next piece is either Buch (if Chytil) or Strome (if Kravstov), plus a protected 1st, plus a D prospect not named Lundkvist.

And if another team ups the price to your stratosphere, I would argue that Gorton is more likely to kindly say “thanks but no thanks” and pursue their next target than he is to make that offer.

 

[duhmetreE]

Salary can be shed elsewhere.

Trade prospects and young players for Eichel

Trade Zibanejad for prospects/picks/young players

Trade Buch for prospects/picks/young players

They don't have to be the same deal.

who's going to take on salary without giving salary?

It's going to be like that nearly with all moves. 'Contending teams' can't afford to take on salary without shedding it.

 

[GAGLine]

I hope Lundkvist is not reading these trade ideas, if so why is he signing his entry level just to be traded to Buffalo?

Because no one on this board has the power to trade him?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Because no one on this board has the power to trade him?

you don't know that

 

[DutchShamrock]

I'm usually wrong but with only 4 call ups, I have doubts Jones is playing in the NHL. Or I'm immediately wrong and he was already called up.

Just thinking that Barron will get a cup of coffee, Reunanen deserves another look, then another "atta boy" for someone like Ronning. It's prudent to save that last call up for a need.

There are plenty of people that are a part of the future, or need to be assessed for decision making, or deserve a few games for the way they have played.

 

[True Blue]

What comes back for Mika?

Also, the team is clearly still building. Any single player they add won't be THE man unless that guy is McDavid. The team has too much talent and depth to have anyone be THE man. Hell, Panarin is here. He's the best player in the world outside of maybe a small handful (McDavid, Draisatl, Matthews?, Mackinnon?). SO the idea that one guy is going to be brought in to carry the team is a fallacy. He's a good step in the right direction long term to helping this team be succesful.

That is a million dollar question. Depends on what "win now" team has the room for him and if they are just taking him on as a rental.

Panarin may be here, but when you trade for a player like that, he becomes THE man. And the second you get him, the building is over and your win now moment is here for the next 4 years. If you do not believe that you are winning the Cup with him in the next 4 years, while he is in the prime of his career, then why trade good assets for him?

Trade Zibanejad for prospects/picks/young players

Trade Buch for prospects/picks/young players

I always feel like these type of statements are far easier said than done. You need a team that is clearly in playoff contention AND has good young prospects and players that they are willing to move AND has the cap space to take on these type of players. All of s sudden, the possibility of finding that type of trade partner shrinks greatly.

 

[GAGLine]

you don't know that

Neither does Lundkvist, but I'm sure he's not worrying about what anyone on there has to say.

 

[NYR Viper]

who's going to take on salary without giving salary?

It may not have to be entirely no cap coming back. A deal like Buch for a player making $1.5m or $2m that fills a role for the team may be something that fits. There will be teams with some cap space.