Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXIX: Going 11-3 to close out this crazy year should do it!

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Not sure if it’s realistic but by the day I am getting on the...pass on both Eichel and Zibanejad train. Investing big $ at the C position long term flies in the face of how this team is being constructed.

Rather look behind door #3. NYR will have elite W and D if things keep trending the way they are trending. I would let that come together and see who Gorton can shake loose with surplus assets or wait to see who wants to take a discount to come here once they are a legit contender.
 
Not sure if it’s realistic but by the day I am getting on the...pass on both Eichel and Zibanejad train. Investing big $ at the C position long term flies in the face of how this team is being constructed.

Rather look behind door #3. NYR will have elite W and D if things keep trending the way they are trending. I would let that come together and see who Gorton can shake loose with surplus assets or wait to see who wants to take a discount to come here once they are a legit contender.
As you say I don't think it's very realistic. Even Chicago, who is pointed out as the model for building a team around elite wingers and D had a big $ center in Toews, albeit not as big as Eichel. This organization has too many assets I believe not too capitalize on a big trade sooner rather than later. Whether Eichel would be the correct decision, that we can't know for quite some time. I understand the aversion to adding a big contract like that with a flat cap, but I think I'd rather that than sign Zibanejad, because I can't see the Rangers not adding an elite center. If they can find someone else for cheaper, I'd be on board with that.
 
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He’s only 25 putting up 80 pts on a shit team. Plays average to better then average D. Think about how Zibby took another step at 25. What if Eichel isn’t done developing either. A lot of crazy excuses in here. If you don’t want to pay the price to get him that’s one thing, but he’s a premier center at 25. Locked up until he’s 30. Right in the sweet spot

He's a below average defensive player and he only put up 80 points twice (and that's giving him last season, where he finished with 78). I see a lot of pro-Eichel folks going on about excuses. You want to see excuses (or Eich-scuses, I'm sure with how often they get trotted out, they have to have a trademark by now)? Watch Buffalo fans start whining whenever you ask them why their "top 5 player in the league" only finished top ten in scoring once (last year, tied for tenth, in a season where his shooting percentage was 5 points higher than his career average and a clear outlier). Ask them why he's otherwise never finished higher than mid 20s and has finished outside the top 50 multiple times. Ask them why his scoring sloooooooooows down in the stretch run, seemingly right around the time Buffalo is mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. You'll get to hear all of the excuses. Bad team, bad coaches, bad linemates, bad luck, etc etc etc. The kicker is that whole song is a cover--the original was recorded by Columbus when they were selling Nash as 10x the player he was if he could only wear another sweater. Shock of all shocks, Nash as a Ranger was exactly what he was as a Blue Jacket. And Eichel as a Ranger will be exactly what he is as a Sabre--a talented, somewhat underperforming player with injury problems whose reputation somehow blinds ~70% of these boards to the fact that he just doesn't produce at those levels. He could have all the talent in the world, but if he's not shoving the net full of points (due to being on IR or just not giving a f*** for a month or two of the season), then that talent isn't worth a damn thing.

Trading for Eichel means losing not only what we would pay to acquire him but also losing Zibanejad (can't afford both). I'd rather trade Zib for a high end C prospect (I still think there could be something to be done with Newhook, especially if Colorado washes out of the playoffs early this year) and sign a short-term stop-gap for a season or two.
 
Do you think the Leafs are going to win a Cup over the next couple years?
All they really need is a no name goalie or established vet to get hot for them in the playoffs. Binnington did it for the blues. Leafs had to spend a lot of currency getting D via trade. We will have to for a center. Leafs D will get better as guys like sandin and Holl Lilgren etc develop within. But a hot goalie, you can ride til the cows come home. I think they offense is certainly capable of scoring 3 goals a game
 
He's a below average defensive player and he only put up 80 points twice (and that's giving him last season, where he finished with 78). I see a lot of pro-Eichel folks going on about excuses. You want to see excuses (or Eich-scuses, I'm sure with how often they get trotted out, they have to have a trademark by now)? Watch Buffalo fans start whining whenever you ask them why their "top 5 player in the league" only finished top ten in scoring once (last year, tied for tenth, in a season where his shooting percentage was 5 points higher than his career average and a clear outlier). Ask them why he's otherwise never finished higher than mid 20s and has finished outside the top 50 multiple times. Ask them why his scoring sloooooooooows down in the stretch run, seemingly right around the time Buffalo is mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. You'll get to hear all of the excuses. Bad team, bad coaches, bad linemates, bad luck, etc etc etc. The kicker is that whole song is a cover--the original was recorded by Columbus when they were selling Nash as 10x the player he was if he could only wear another sweater. Shock of all shocks, Nash as a Ranger was exactly what he was as a Blue Jacket. And Eichel as a Ranger will be exactly what he is as a Sabre--a talented, somewhat underperforming player with injury problems whose reputation somehow blinds ~70% of these boards to the fact that he just doesn't produce at those levels. He could have all the talent in the world, but if he's not shoving the net full of points (due to being on IR or just not giving a f*** for a month or two of the season), then that talent isn't worth a damn thing.

Trading for Eichel means losing not only what we would pay to acquire him but also losing Zibanejad (can't afford both). I'd rather trade Zib for a high end C prospect (I still think there could be something to be done with Newhook, especially if Colorado washes out of the playoffs early this year) and sign a short-term stop-gap for a season or two.
Not pro Eichel per say. but I think he’s definitely a better alternative to a 29 year old Zibby for multiple years. Yes Eichel would cost, but you also recoup assets from dealing Zib. Zib also has his own injury history. Eichel could be the same. Or he could get better. He’s only 24 right now. No telling how well or bad he would mesh with this talent until it’s tried. I would love Barkov, but it’s looking more and more unlikely that Florida is going to be a basement dweller for a long period of time like the Sabres. I think the taste of the playoffs this year may be enough to sway Barky to stay. TBH neither situation is ideal. I highly doubt Av s deal Newhook. They want to keep their core of Rants, Mack, Landeskog, Makar, Bryram, etc all together. They are going to need ELC players because they are going to spend a ton in the next 2-3 years. I think dealing Zibby for a Glass or a Krebs + works. Neither situation is ideal, but I’m in the camp that would go with the younger guy who could possibly be better. They aren’t going to deal Zibby for prospects and stand pat. They’ll resign him or try to upgrade the position IMO
 
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Not pro Eichel per say. but I think he’s definitely a better alternative to a 29 year old Zibby for multiple years. Yes Eichel would cost, but you also recoup assets from dealing Zib. Zib also has his own injury history. Eichel could be the same. Or he could get better. He’s only 24 right now. Now telling how well or bad he would mesh with this talent until it’s tried

That is the equation I would look at:

Zib + assests to pay for Eichel

vs

Eichel + assets acquired dealing Zib

I think that is the choice Brass is facing.

The third option is to deal Zib and get someone else as a 1/2 center through trade, UFA, buyout or whatever. And not acquire Eichel. This would be the path I myself would mostly like at this point, but things can of course change.

Also, eventually upgrading Strome as 2C would not hurt then - specially if we go the Eichel route. A more physical, 2-way center would be very welcome to this team full of talented offensive power, especially on the wings, but maybe not entirely designed for SC playoff hockey.
 
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That is the equation I would look at:

Zib + assests to pay for Eichel

vs

Eichel + assets acquired dealing Zib
They are not going to deal Zibby for a prospect. That stage is over. He is your 1C. They will either resign him, or deal him and upgrade the position. IE Eichel, Barkov etc. proven guy who could be what they are currently or better with the rangers upcoming talent
 
They are not going to deal Zibby for a prospect. That stage is over. He is your 1C. They will either resign him, or deal him and upgrade the position. IE Eichel, Barkov etc. proven guy who could be what they are currently or better with the rangers upcoming talent
They could of course acquire assets for Zib and use some if not all of them to offer in a deal acquire Eichel. Hopefully, they do not... Let him go to Hollywood
 
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If Eichel dosen’t work out, I would assume Larkin is plan B

Larkin isn’t in the same universe as Eichel but they’re probably hoping it’s a Mika 2.0 situation where he blows up coming here

The seeds are already being planted about Larkin potentially getting moved. You have our insiders here mentioning it, Friedman alluded to it the last couple days.

Just gotta hope Yzerman dosen’t bend us over a barrel too bad

Right, or we revisit Calgary.
 
I honestly don't see a scenario where Eichel joins this team without Kreider, Trouba or Zibanejad going elsewhere either in that deal or in a different one.

Looking at possible destinations for Kreider (Yeah, I know. NMC. Let's just entertain the thought he'd waive for the right team). Let's look at tax-havens.

- Vegas Golden Knights in 2023: Pacioretty coming off his current contract at age 34. Vegas could be enticed to go after Kreider as a replacement and it would be a good fit for Kreider.

- Dallas Stars in 2022: Similarly to Vegas, Dallas has a player on his way out but a year earlier: Joe Pavelski, who will turn 38 next year. UFA in 2022, Pavelski is not the guy they would look for to help them through their window. Kreider brings something they lose with Pavelski leaving. Kreider and Pavelski are 1 and 2 in goals off deflections. Lethal on the PP when used right.

- Florida Panthers in 2023: Hornqvist will be 36, UFA in 2023. Again, seems like a fit financially and positionally.

- Tampa Bay Lighting in 2023: Replacing Alex Killorn, Kreider only makes 2m more than Killorn. For a team that has Vasilevsky, Hedman and McDonagh on the payroll long-term, Kreider gives them a legit shot at squeezing another cup out of their window that is destined to close right around the time Kreider's contract expires, 4 years later.

Long-shot:
- Nashville Predators has a lot of contracts expiring in 2022. Would Kreider, with 4 more years at that stage, be a target for them to build around?

I don't think Kreider is jumping for joy to waive his NMC but out of the 3, Kreider seems to be the most logical option to pursue trading. Trouba still has a role to play on this team, and trading away Zibanejad to accomodate Eichel is a lateral move.
 
Because of his neck injury, there was no chance of Eichel being traded before the recent deadline. What I did learn was that the LA Kings are one team that has had extensive talks with Buffalo to lay the groundwork for a possible deal this summer. While this has been rumored and reported elsewhere, what I was told the names flying around are “dizzying” and there are not a lot of “off-limits” players. No specific names to report (yet) but the Kings have a huge prospect pool and several good young players already in the NHL. If the Rangers are serious about Eichel (which I question) the Kings will be very stiff competition.
Good, let them have him. I would rather target an up and comer.
 
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I think that it’s fairly likely that Zib won’t be here in a couple of years. He is and will be blamed for all lack of success with management’s way — who obviously think the issues with this team is of the “if only the players did what we say we would do great” caliber.

We completely changed the way we played and it was very obvious that it would torpedo guys like Ziba’s offensive game. It helped our defense but hurt us offensively, like no doubt. I posted this on 17 Feb.
226A0F85-013D-4DED-8382-A81DA487A396.png


This was fairly early after the major overhaul of our game, but I made that post because I knew exactly what would happen. I also made several posts on how the management and coaches also had to be held accountable, if they change how we play and take away the fundamentals for offensive players to score, they can’t scape goat the said players when they don’t. Subsequent to that Ziba surprise surprise didn’t score anything for a month. “If only Ziba would have scored, we would have done great” was their message more or less.

I don’t know, the above is probably a crappy description of what I am trying to say. But we have seen this before and knows how it ends. Ziba out and someone else with a bigger name comes in. Maybe this time it will work out great! ;)
 
Well, if you go by past reports. The Rangers were offering something very reasonable.

So I'm guessing two top young players. Maybe Kakko and Miller with someone else plus a pick?

And they'd be foolish to do that deal now. Besides Kakko, Miller's fundamentals are really impressing me lately. His stick work and physical attributes are known, but little things like the way he spins an opponent away from the puck using his shoulder and their own momentum, while he chips the puck in the opposite direction to gain position on the back wall is vet level smarts. Most guys would either tie up, force a puck battle, or try to poke n run. His process creates a numbers game in favor of him and his partner while simultaneously advancing the puck in a positive direction.
 
I know people are fearful of what the cost would be for a guy like Larkin because of what the Mantha trade was but that trade was honestly a good thing for the Rangers. A late 1st + late 2nd + Cap dump + Good but not great 25 year old for Mantha.

Let’s assume the 1st + Panik was a pure cap dump scenario which is probably about right. Panik has more than just this season left. The Rangers paid a 2nd for Detroit to take on 1 year of Staal.

That leaves Vrana + 2nd for Mantha who has more cost certainty and years of control than Larkin.

You’re probably looking at a very good young player or prospect (say Robertson, Schneider level) + 1st (this pick is likely to be much better than the one the Caps just sent) + young NHL player (say Hajek or Gauthier).

A guy like Larkin would be ideal. Sign him for 5-6 years along with Strome and let Chytil and Barron continue to develop. Trade Zibanejad to recoup some assets.

The level of chemistry between Strome and Panarin is well worth the investment. Having them together for the next 4-5 years would give this team a potent 1A or 1B line for the foreseeable future
 
They are not going to deal Zibby for a prospect. That stage is over. He is your 1C. They will either resign him, or deal him and upgrade the position. IE Eichel, Barkov etc. proven guy who could be what they are currently or better with the rangers upcoming talent
Zibanejad is not going to be involved in any Eichel deal, don’t know why that has to keep being said.
 
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I agree, just as likely we would trade Laf or Kakko for Eichel as they would Byfield. My point is they have the depth at that position if push came to shove and it was Byfield or Eichel. Otherwise they have a deeper pool than we do and could just overwhelm buffalo with assets for Eichel.

They do not have a deeper pool

Its constructed differently, but the depth is on par with each other
 
Zibanejad is not going to be involved in any Eichel deal, don’t know why that has to keep being said.
Not for Eichel. Your missing the point. They not going to deal Zibby just for a prospect and pick And role with what they have. If they do deal Zibby it’s because they chose not to resign him and go a different route by upgrading their center position and then dealing him separately to recoup some young assets. Either that or then sign him long term. They are not going to roll with Chytil strome and Zib trade as they’re 3 centers.

Zibby won’t be in a deal for Eichel but his future is intertwined with an Eichel move for sure. Especially when there are going to be making close to the same money
 
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A Rangers-Kings trade makes a ton of sense to be honest.

Robertson for Kupari, or

Lundkvist for Turcotte, or

Schneider for Vilardi

I was thinking something like:

Lundqvist for Kupari (Finnish center to play with KK) and Kaliyev (I'm a big fan of guys that play their off wing. No doubt about it, he's a goal scorer and he's a NY'er)

However, I really like that Akil Thomas kid A LOT.
 
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They could of course acquire assets for Zib and use some if not all of them to offer in a deal acquire Eichel. Hopefully, they do not... Let him go to Hollywood
Yea, that’s a dangerous game. If they lose out on jack and deal Zibby before acquiring a new center they massively downgrade themselves at 1C. At least for a few years until his trade return of prospects/picks develop into something similar to what he is now
 
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