Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXIX: Going 11-3 to close out this crazy year should do it!

[TheBloodyNine]

Guys,

All these young players and prospects are not going to play for the Rangers. Some of them may never be NHL regulars. I'm not advocating to trade them all away for Eichel, but we're gonna have to get less attached to a lot of these guys. As much as I hate Larry Brooks he was spot on the other day. We are now entering into the "Trade prospects for NHLers" phase of this rebuild. There are gonna be guys that are traded here that you aren't gonna like. That's just the nature of the beast.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Eichel out for the remainder of the season with neck injury I think this should put an end the trade rumors, last thing we need is an underperforming big cap player with serious neck injury.

 

[RGY]

Eichel out for the remainder of the season with neck injury I think this should put an end the trade rumors, last thing we need is an underperforming big cap player with serious neck injury.

Underperforming player? Yeah no, this is made up BS.

 

[bleedblue94]

I would much rather move any piece we’re willing to include in an Eichel trade (ie: Lundqvist) for Newhook. He’ll cost less both in assets going the other way and cap space - no idea what it would take for Sakic to say yes, but I’d rather chase someone like that over Eichel.

I think the quick coming cap crunch that the avs have on the horizon would make that very difficult.

 

[LokiDog]

Back when Boston won their cup Bergeron was a 57 point in 81 games center and Krejci was good for 62 in 72. When St. Louis won ROR put up 77 in 82 and Schenn put up 54 in 72. All four are solid all around players with two being Selke quality. None of them (at the time) were 80-100 point superstar producers but they were solid at all aspects of the game on deep teams with good wingers.

Zibanejad is gonna command 8M+. Strome just doesn’t fit the bill of that kind of player. Strome will also be more costly than 4.5M if we extend him after next season. ROR makes 7.5M and Schenn makes 6.5M. 14M for a center duo that is good in all facets of the game and warrior competitors is perfect if you have the kind of wing depth and talent we have. If Mika takes 8M and Strome settles for 5M that’s 13M. I’d rather have the Selke winner and Schenn at 14M than Zibs and Strome at 13M. I’m fine with going with two “not point per game” centers as long as they’re all around players who can put up just below that point per game range.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If Buffalo is trading their star 1c, they are looking for a replacement for him in return. Cozens should be good but he hasn't proven anything. Buffalo's system otherwise is lacking for Cs. This is why the Kings package would beat ours, because it fits Buffalo's needs much better. If they can get byfield or 2 of the other 4 C prospects in return, I don't think twice if I'm rob blake. Maybe if the rangers consider offering some of the kids that were rumored to be "untouchable" it would give him pause, but I highly doubt that is happening.

Their replacement doesn't have to come in this trade though, so thats a heck of an assumption.

I don't know how they have prospects rated across all systems, but they kind of need help everywhere. I don't think LA is moving Byfield a year after taking him 2OA, though I could see Turcotte on the table as we've discussed before.

But if another team has a player on the table who doesn't play C that Buffalo likes more, whats their incentive to take the Center prospect? None of LA's guys really profile as #1's at the C position (I don't think Byfield does either, but thats another conversation and I doubt he's available all together) so it's not like they'd be getting some slam dunk replacement option.

 

[LokiDog]

Guys,

All these young players and prospects are not going to play for the Rangers. Some of them may never be NHL regulars. I'm not advocating to trade them all away for Eichel, but we're gonna have to get less attached to a lot of these guys. As much as I hate Larry Brooks he was spot on the other day. We are now entering into the "Trade prospects for NHLers" phase of this rebuild. There are gonna be guys that are traded here that you aren't gonna like. That's just the nature of the beast.

This is the truth. Everyone predicting a defense of:

Lindgren - Fox
Miller - Trouba
Robertson - Lundkvist

where Schneider eventually replaces Trouba is in for a rude awakening. It just NEVER actually happens that way. We’ll need a vet before these guys are all ready to carry the mail and we’ll have to make trades at some point that some of these guys inevitably will be part of. We’ve been doing this for years, penciling in every prospect and homegrown player in the system projecting a 95% homegrown roster of the future and it never comes to fruition. We get way too attached to our own prospects. When we’re calling guys like Lundkvist untouchable outside of MacKinnon/Matthews trade or saying we wouldn’t move Chytil + Robertson for Eichel we’re out to lunch.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Because of his neck injury, there was no chance of Eichel being traded before the recent deadline. What I did learn was that the LA Kings are one team that has had extensive talks with Buffalo to lay the groundwork for a possible deal this summer. While this has been rumored and reported elsewhere, what I was told the names flying around are “dizzying” and there are not a lot of “off-limits” players. No specific names to report (yet) but the Kings have a huge prospect pool and several good young players already in the NHL. If the Rangers are serious about Eichel (which I question) the Kings will be very stiff competition.

Let him go to LA then.

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

I get that Howden is generally a black hole for offense but he feels pretty responsible defensively. Wonder what his stats say. If he’s even just net neutral, that’s all you can really ask for out of a younger 4th liner

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Underperforming player? Yeah no, this is made up BS.

this season he did not underperform?

 

[Calad]

Their replacement doesn't have to come in this trade though, so thats a heck of an assumption.

I don't know how they have prospects rated across all systems, but they kind of need help everywhere. I don't think LA is moving Byfield a year after taking him 2OA, though I could see Turcotte on the table as we've discussed before.

But if another team has a player on the table who doesn't play C that Buffalo likes more, whats their incentive to take the Center prospect? None of LA's guys really profile as #1's at the C position (I don't think Byfield does either, but thats another conversation and I doubt he's available all together) so it's not like they'd be getting some slam dunk replacement option.

The replacement doesn't have to, but if not in an Eichel trade where will they come from? None of the Cs in the 2021 draft are projecting as a top line C

Sure, if theres a prospect they like better than some combination of the Cs from LA then they might be more inclined to take those, but thats very speculative. LA prospect pool is widely regarded as a top3 system, and the #1 system by a few. Their top 7 prospects are Byfield Turcotte Vilardi Kaliyev Kupari Bjornfot Madden, 5 of those players are centers. I would argue Byfield and Turcotte have pretty good 1c potential, and Kupari has been on fire in the AHL this year so he might surprise.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I get that Howden is generally a black hole for offense but he feels pretty responsible defensively. Wonder what his stats say. If he’s even just net neutral, that’s all you can really ask for out of a younger 4th liner

Hes defensively responsible in the concept that he doesn’t leave the zone early. He doesn’t really win board battles, he doesn’t separate guys from the puck properly, and he’s prone to neutral zone and offensive zone turnovers.
He’s still got that lanky kid body, and unlike guys like Chytil and Kratsov doesn’t have the speed or control that’s necessary to leverage that into possession and turnovers.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Going to continue this exchange with @Fitzy because this was leading to good conversation the last thread.

Gonna go by paragraph
1) I think the alternate plan is a Zibby and Strome extension. So in a sense we aren't talking much about them. Eichel is the only other star center on the trade market.

2) I trust Edge. For him, Lundkvist is the highest value not-untouchable. His touchability in increased by Fox, Trouba, Schneider down the right side.

2B) If NYR trade for Eichel it's because he is in the Matthews MacKinnon territory to them. And yes Lundy is a good prospect but saying he'd only be dealt for a current top 5 center is silly. He has tremendous upside but we still don't know what his NHL potential is. He's as uncertain as K'Andre would be if he has stayed in the NCAA one additional season.

3) Well yeah, we are all thrilled about that, but I'd say it's karma for having to put up with Wade Redden, as well as watching Richards, Drury, and Gomez (Though we didn't have to deal with him) all age like milk after signing with us.

1. I think one of Zibanejad or Strome ends up staying. Not both. Based on which player the front office chooses to keep will determine their approach this summer and next, I think.

2. Lundkvist should not be available just because Fox is a Norris candidate and the Rangers have Schneider in the system. IMO, Lundkvist is on another planet in comparison to Schneider. IMO he's the best defenseman in the world not currently in the NHL. Lundkvist I think can be special just like Fox. Schneider tops off as a 2nd pairing defenseman, IMO. If Lundkvist really is as advertised, you make that decision in three years when his ELC comes due. The Rangers' window opening coincides with Lundkvist's arrival. I think the Rangers have a better chance at a Cup with Lundkvist on the team as compared to Schneider.

2B. Eichel in terms of talent is in that 1A category with Barkov, Crosby, Kopitar, Seguin (when healthy), and Bergeron. McDavid, Matthews, and MacKinnon are in a class of their own in front of this group to me. Neck injuries spook me. In all likelihood Eichel will be ready to go and producing at his previous clip, but this injury and his mental make up gives me pause about cashing in the team's chips on him. He doesn't impress me as the "winner" type. Fox? Lafreniere? Kakko for examples, 100% gamers that are going to step up their game in the postseason.

3. Amen.

 

[Blueshirt Believer]

This is the truth. Everyone predicting a defense of:

Lindgren - Fox
Miller - Trouba
Robertson - Lundkvist

where Schneider eventually replaces Trouba is in for a rude awakening. It just NEVER actually happens that way. We’ll need a vet before these guys are all ready to carry the mail and we’ll have to make trades at some point that some of these guys inevitably will be part of. We’ve been doing this for years, penciling in every prospect and homegrown player in the system projecting a 95% homegrown roster of the future and it never comes to fruition. We get way too attached to our own prospects. When we’re calling guys like Lundkvist untouchable outside of MacKinnon/Matthews trade or saying we wouldn’t move Chytil + Robertson for Eichel we’re out to lunch.

Agreed, I mean there are untouchable players. But are Miller, Kratsov, Kakko all in the same boat?

I'm not saying trade them all but I think atleast one or two(forward and D) of them is going "bye bye". Especially because we have a structural problem at center.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

I think the quick coming cap crunch that the avs have on the horizon would make that very difficult.

Yes - I would imagine you're right. I mean, Eichel is a big risk, and I tend to be very conservative. I wasn't super on board with the Nash trade (CBJ version) and that turned out ok - especially with the return we eventually got from Boston and I wasn't necessarily against but definitely concerned about signing Panarin and that turned out great and I wasn't thrilled with the Kreider extension and the jury is still out on that one (I think) - so I'm wrong a lot more often than I'm right - maybe big $ players just make me nervous after all of the Gomezs and Holiks and Reddens throughout the years.

 

[RGY]

this season he did not underperform?

Buffalo is arguably the worst team in the league. Even if you want to say Eichel was struggling too, he still managed to be at 18 points in 21 games. And to take it a step further, a player does not get to be labeled based off of 21 games. Over the last 4 years, in 233 GP he has 242 points. He is a PPG player. You can even go back 5 years, his 2nd year in the league, and he had 57 points in 61 games. He is still over a PPG. Again on bad non-playoff Buffalo teams.

 

[jay from jersey]

This is the truth. Everyone predicting a defense of:

Lindgren - Fox
Miller - Trouba
Robertson - Lundkvist

where Schneider eventually replaces Trouba is in for a rude awakening. It just NEVER actually happens that way. We’ll need a vet before these guys are all ready to carry the mail and we’ll have to make trades at some point that some of these guys inevitably will be part of. We’ve been doing this for years, penciling in every prospect and homegrown player in the system projecting a 95% homegrown roster of the future and it never comes to fruition. We get way too attached to our own prospects. When we’re calling guys like Lundkvist untouchable outside of MacKinnon/Matthews trade or saying we wouldn’t move Chytil + Robertson for Eichel we’re out to lunch.

It’s not only that. Top 4 D get most of the minutes. The only way your going to see a stellar 3rd pairing is if they are on their ELC. There’s a big difference between GM s that pay top 4 and what they pay their 5-6. I really think skinner will be a 5-6 guy here 3-4 years down the line. Solid, yet unremarkable

 

[Blueshirt Believer]

All right the question is since the Rangers will be logjammed at D:

What team needs D but has quality young centers to trade?

 

[Fitzy]

This is the truth. Everyone predicting a defense of:

Lindgren - Fox
Miller - Trouba
Robertson - Lundkvist

Well, nothing has ever happened until it happens the first time.

That's my best effort at a Yogi Berra but you get the idea.

I'm sure there will be trades, maybe even career ending injuries, but I don't think that blueline is as impractical as you do.

Trouba was acquired as a vet outside the organization

Lindgren and Fox wee both traded for as prospects

So it's not a truly "Homegrown" defense in the traditional sense, though I will grant you it is a young one.

The Blues Stanley Cup defense was very heavily homegrown, though Bouwmeester and Edmundsson came from outside.

In 2012 when Kevin Klein was on the Preds their defense was almost entirely homegrown. Weber, Josi, Klein, Blum, Ellis, Bartley. Hannan was the only import. Same with years prior when it was Suter and Franson that were homegrown.

I think with the defense being the prospect strength, the peak Predators and Blues should be teams we aspire to be like.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The replacement doesn't have to, but if not in an Eichel trade where will they come from? None of the Cs in the 2021 draft are projecting as a top line C

Sure, if theres a prospect they like better than some combination of the Cs from LA then they might be more inclined to take those, but thats very speculative. LA prospect pool is widely regarded as a top3 system, and the #1 system by a few. Their top 7 prospects are Byfield Turcotte Vilardi Kaliyev Kupari Bjornfot Madden, 5 of those players are centers. I would argue Byfield and Turcotte have pretty good 1c potential, and Kupari has been on fire in the AHL this year so he might surprise.

Buffalo doesn't need to get their next #1 C in this draft either. Hell if they were smart they'd shoot for picks in this and next years draft.

I'd be pretty damn confident in saying Turcotte doesn't have 1C potential (he's barely .5 PPG in a watered down version of the AHL this year.) Byfield has the potential, but I doubt he reaches it (I don't know that he's a center in the NHL anyway.) Again, I very much doubt hes on the table.

But unless Buffalo is willing to take a quantity over quality package, I don't see how they're sure fire impossible to beat. If KA's MO is to just get as many solid players with draft pedigree back then yeah, I agree, they're basically in the driver seat, but that has nothing to do with being deep in center prospects.

 

[rangers1314]

Because of his neck injury, there was no chance of Eichel being traded before the recent deadline. What I did learn was that the LA Kings are one team that has had extensive talks with Buffalo to lay the groundwork for a possible deal this summer. While this has been rumored and reported elsewhere, what I was told the names flying around are “dizzying” and there are not a lot of “off-limits” players. No specific names to report (yet) but the Kings have a huge prospect pool and several good young players already in the NHL. If the Rangers are serious about Eichel (which I question) the Kings will be very stiff competition.

So basically everyone but Byfield is in play

 

[jay from jersey]

If Buffalo is trading their star 1c, they are looking for a replacement for him in return. Cozens should be good but he hasn't proven anything. Buffalo's system otherwise is lacking for Cs. This is why the Kings package would beat ours, because it fits Buffalo's needs much better. If they can get byfield or 2 of the other 4 C prospects in return, I don't think twice if I'm rob blake. Maybe if the rangers consider offering some of the kids that were rumored to be "untouchable" it would give him pause, but I highly doubt that is happening.

LA is not trading Byfield. And is a 50/50 toss up who the better player becomes between Turcotte, Chytil, Villardi, Thomas etc. whoever buff likes better. Our D prospects destroy theirs.

 

[Calad]

All right the question is since the Rangers will be logjammed at D:

What team needs D but has quality young centers to trade?

LA. The two prospect pools are a match made in heaven. Just depends on how long they want to dance around eachother before someone picks up the phone.

 

[Calad]

Buffalo doesn't need to get their next #1 C in this draft either. Hell if they were smart they'd shoot for picks in this and next years draft.

I'd be pretty damn confident in saying Turcotte doesn't have 1C potential (he's barely .5 PPG in a watered down version of the AHL this year.) Byfield has the potential, but I doubt he reaches it (I don't know that he's a center in the NHL anyway.) Again, I very much doubt hes on the table.

But unless Buffalo is willing to take a quantity over quality package, I don't see how they're sure fire impossible to beat. If KA's MO is to just get as many solid players with draft pedigree back then yeah, I agree, they're basically in the driver seat, but that has nothing to do with being deep in center prospects.

We obviously have a large difference of opinion on the strength of LA's farm, thats fine, agree to disagree there.

I'd take my chances on Turcotte any day if we're given the opportunity.

 

[Blueshirt Believer]

LA. The two prospect pools are a match made in heaven. Just depends on how long they want to dance around eachother before someone picks up the phone.

Problem is they might deplete to get Eichel?

Or

Do the Rangers make a deal with them before?