Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXX: Going 8-0 to close out might not be enough!

[effen]

Goddamnit Dimitri, Zibs and Kreider becoming massive creampuffs in the last year does not mean David Quinns time is over.

Not everything on the team can be directed back to the same point. Stahp.

 

[Fitzy]

That's the key. We need to be able to play all ways/styles. We need to be able to adjust. We need to be well-rounded.... BUT There needs to be a foundation/structure to follow or fall back on. IMO The best thing for our youth is structure.

Issue I have right now, the vets look completely disinterested. It's the textbook definition of 'going through the motions'... They are not buying in.

I see teams like Buffalo and NJD that are bad but they do not give up. They are relentless. Every team will have an 'off-day' but we have been having an 'off-season'.

Yeah but I completely understand the Vets looking checked out now. We've been pretty much out of the playoff race realistically the past few weeks, and they've been busting their asses playing tons of minutes in a condensed season with shitty quality of life in bubbles all year.

It's basically preseason effort RN from the older players and I completely understand. I'm not sure it has much to do with the coaching.

 

[bbny]

I've seen a lot of Buchnevich trade posts. I think his two way game has developed nicely, and he's a real asset on the PK. I would trade Strome first. Strome has performed well, but he doesn't offer much outside of the offensive zone. Be it defensively, faceoffs, grit, etc. They need to find a different top 6 C. Preferably someone who wins faceoffs, goes to the net, and unafraid to be physical or get his nose dirty.

 

[duhmetreE]

Yeah but I completely understand the Vets looking checked out now. We've been pretty much out of the playoff race realistically the past few weeks, and they've been busting their asses playing tons of minutes in a condensed season with shitty quality of life in bubbles all year.

It's basically preseason effort RN from the older players and I completely understand. I'm not sure it has much to do with the coaching.

I didn't think so. We came out flat in a lot of our big games. Losing is one thing. How we lost our last 3 against the Isles is unaccetpable.

We 'controlled' our destiny... as in if we showed up and beat the Isles, our playoff hopes looked good... Scored 1 goal in 3 games.

 

[Graves94]

I didn't think so. We came out flat in a lot of our big games. Losing is one thing. How we lost our last 3 against the Isles is unacceptble.

We 'controlled' our destiny... as in if we showed up and beat the Isles, our playoff hopes looked good... Scored 1 goal in 3 games.

Exactly!
Wat bothers me most about these losses to the Islanders, as a matter of fact all the games this year against the Isles, was the way we played...NO compete!
How is it that when we were at our peak last decade, the Islanders always played us tough, it was never an easy game against them, they got up to play against us, every game.
We rolled over and made it very easy for them especially these past 3 games. I know we're a young team, but compete level should be implemented into everyone on the team young and old guys. That's on Quinn and the coaching staff!

 

[Esa 10]

Yeah but I completely understand the Vets looking checked out now. We've been pretty much out of the playoff race realistically the past few weeks, and they've been busting their asses playing tons of minutes in a condensed season with shitty quality of life in bubbles all year.

It's basically preseason effort RN from the older players and I completely understand. I'm not sure it has much to do with the coaching.

Our vets also looked listless against Carolina inside the bubble, at the beginning of this year and intermittently since Quinn came back. It's more than just end of lost season blues thing. This has a real "vets tuning out the coach" vibe.

There's a considerable resemblance to players going through the motions in Renney and Torts' last seasons. Most coaches eventually lose a group. 3 years is a common NHL coach life span.

I wonder how much Ruff's presence as an elder statesman helped Quinn with vets. Nothing to go on and could be coincidental, but the downturn started as soon as he left.

 

[Synergy27]

He hit the nail on the head.... it's scary when Brooksy is sounding like me

There is an issue at the top of the Rangers lineup that must be resolved before the hierarchy can move into what necessarily must be a Summer of Reconstruction to transform this collection of homogenous ingredients into a more diverse blend that can take the next step in its evolution.

But more consequential than that, it has also been clear that the high-end players have had little if any interest in changing their approach in order to accommodate the coach. It is their way, their increasingly obstinate way, in which there has been no quarter given by either side.

Here’s the thing, though. The Rangers were a lot of east-west last year, but it was not like this. The post-game taffy-pull did not exist, at least not like this. And the skill guys — and, honestly, we’re talking for the most part about Panarin, Zibanejad and Strome — weren’t like this against the top teams. They were not like this against the Islanders.
____________

Like I've been saying... His expiration date has passed.

Call it a rebellion. Call it a disconnect. Call it conflicting philosophies. Whatever it is, when the players and the coach aren’t on the same page, it’s bad. Quinn isn’t long for the job.

 

[rangersfansince08]

I didn't think so. We came out flat in a lot of our big games. Losing is one thing. How we lost our last 3 against the Isles is unaccetpable.

We 'controlled' our destiny... as in if we showed up and beat the Isles, our playoff hopes looked good... Scored 1 goal in 3 games.

Losing by a combined score of 13-1 is pathethic.

We actually won the series last year 3-1 and we scored 2 (L) , 3 (W), 4(W), 6(W) goals against them.

 

[brians1128]

Looking back at the last few pages and seeing people targeting center prospects,

Lundell, Newhook, Krebs, Glass, Halloway, Turcotte.

Florida has some rumblings of making a strong push to be competitive. Buchnevich adds another strong 2 way forward to compliment that group. The big con to me is to be competitive you really need elc's coming in, with Barkov's next contract right around the corner is Florida really close enough to go all in?

Colorado is a damn well built team Buch makes them that much more dangerous. I really like him as a fit here and it really all depends on if Sakic thinks the same thing. I think he's at a point where even if he overpays it would hurt that team. Really hoping for that Colorado VS Vegas 2nd round match up

Speaking of Vegas, they are a team determined to win a cup. Would they be interested in Zibby if they fall short? Zibby would fit in there nicely, and Zibby could help their powerplay. They could also use a pp quarterback, Jones?

Edmonton was linked to Buchnevich 2 offseasons ago at the draft, Buch is a much better player then he was 2 years ago. They have the pressure of not wasting McDavids time. To be honest missing out on that deal 2 years ago makes me upset. It would of been a win win for both teams. Rangers get their center prospect, Buch takes the next step and helps push Edmonton. You gotta think they are still interested.

LA seems like a great trading partner for us, they have excessive centers and need defenseman and wingers. The hold up would be if they are looking at Eichel and what that package would look like for them to land him. Buch gives them a winger to take lead on the wing, or they could go d prospect for c prospect 1 for 1. Interesting plays here..


Adding to my list of more established players that I am interested in (Larkin, Lindholm, Cierlli) is Robert Thomas, I just don't see how St Louis doesn't give him a contract. I don't know whats happening to them in regards to Schwartz, Bozak, Hoffman, Dunn, or what they are trying to do team wise.

Also I really like the Tampa UFA's in Coleman and Goodrow. Carolina also has some interesting UFAs.
Wennberg and Haula, I think Wennberg more of a 3c and Haula as a speedy winger/c on the 4th line who can pk and move up if need be.

Goodrow-Barron-Haula would make for an interesting 4th line.

On the back end Oleksiak, Nemeth, Cole, Martinez ( I know).

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

A couple thoughts on Larry’s Quinn article

One is that it’s obvious something is going on between him and the vets. Strome had some Quinn specific comments not too long ago that seemed somewhat harmless at the time but in context now lends some credence to what Larry is suggesting. Also he’s dead on about Mika and his play when Quinn was out. Night and day difference

Once the players start tuning out the coach it’s a steep decline from there

Ultimately the team is in a tough spot because the end game is clear, Quinn is going to get fired within the next 12 months. But there’s not a coach I can think of at the moment who’s available that I’d ideally replace him with

So we’re just left waiting and hoping things don’t devolve too much

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

A couple thoughts on Larry’s Quinn article

One is that it’s obvious something is going on between him and the vets. Strome had some Quinn specific comments not too long ago that seemed somewhat harmless at the time but in context now lends some credence to what Larry is suggesting. Also he’s dead on about Mika and his play when Quinn was out. Night and day difference

Once the players start tuning out the coach it’s a steep decline from there

Ultimately the team is in a tough spot because the end game is clear, Quinn is going to get fired within the next 12 months. But there’s not a coach I can think of at the moment who’s available that I’d ideally replace him with

So we’re just left waiting and hoping things don’t devolve too much

*whispers*

gerard gallant

 

[Ola]

Last time there were talk about how the guy hired to coach should have coaching experience. But I am starting to second guess that. There is so so much happening in this game on a continuous basis. I am definitely not against hiring someone who got recent playing experience. Even very recent playing experience.

Coaching is of course not for everyone and I don’t know these guys, but on an picking from a pool level, I wouldn’t be against bringing in a troika of guys from a group of guys like Hank, Cally, Girardi, BR, MSL and the likes.

Coaches tends to get stuck with something that worked for them at one point or another. You don’t want someone coming in now steering things with a hard hand in the wrong direction.

 

[jay from jersey]

I've seen a lot of Buchnevich trade posts. I think his two way game has developed nicely, and he's a real asset on the PK. I would trade Strome first. Strome has performed well, but he doesn't offer much outside of the offensive zone. Be it defensively, faceoffs, grit, etc. They need to find a different top 6 C. Preferably someone who wins faceoffs, goes to the net, and unafraid to be physical or get his nose dirty.

I would too, but they both have to go. It pains me because I love Buch. He’s our guy. Came up thru our system against the odds and turned himself into a damn good hockey player

 

[Vitto79]

I’m interested to see what the off-season brings

Gorton is likely big game hunting. So many prospects at Camp they have chips

 

[jay from jersey]

Unreal. How Laf is not getting into the pp1 is so frustrating. What do we need to see from Blackwell in this spot??? What?

At this point it’s a disservice to the rebuild. The playoffs are done. Quinn is so stupid. He plans on being the coach of this team next year, why wouldn’t he give arguably the crown jewel of the organization more time on PP, hell, more ice time to the kids in general. There’s literally nothing to lose and everything to be gained at this point

 

[Fitzy]

I’m interested to see what the off-season brings

Gorton is likely big game hunting. So many prospects at Camp they have chips

Watch them trade a load for Steven Stamkos and the board implodes

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I’m interested to see what the off-season brings

Gorton is likely big game hunting. So many prospects at Camp they have chips

Maybe, the organization does have a habit of star chasing.

I wouldn’t be too sure though. I think they’ll be active regardless.

 

[Vitto79]

Maybe, the organization does have a habit of star chasing.

I wouldn’t be too sure though. I think they’ll be active regardless.

just seems like they could afford to move some kids

 

[NYR Viper]

Edmonton has ALWAYS made sense for Buch. If they can re-sign RNH, I’d watch out for them to make a big move with their 1st this year to bring in help.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Edmonton has ALWAYS made sense for Buch. If they can re-sign RNH, I’d watch out for them to make a big move with their 1st this year to bring in help.

And Holloway would be a target that would fit in with Edge has been saying.

 

[bleedblue94]

I'm not suggesting this kind of thing is common at all. I have said just today in fact that it would be an outlier.

This is the genesis of this little debate: People have been speculating and Edge has now made clear that the Rangers are probably looking to deal Buch for young, developing center help. Whether that is a player in the NHL or not is not clear, presumably they might first look at someone who is young and already in the league but there is no reason to think they wouldn't be interested at all in a player like Lundell who they LOVED at the last draft, and when they were willing to trade Buch for the 8OA just one draft earlier. Not coincidentally, the poster who a few months ago was railing against trading Buch at all because "who else is going to play RW, it's not going to be Kravtsov because he hasn't proven anything yet," now that Kravtsov has actually proven he can in fact play in the NHL and has made Buch expendable, is now taking the position that Buch can't be traded for a prospect because "it never happens."

But it does happen.

Proposing Buch for Lundell is my opinion, as well as a handful of other posters' opinion apparently, as to what the best looking return would be for us. The Rangers may disagree and the Panthers may really disagree so I am under no delusions that this deal is something I should be counting on; but it IS worth talking about just like all the other hypothetical trades we throw out there. As long as they are based on reality - ie, we aren't proposing dealing Tarmo Reunanen straight up for Connor McDavid - then there is no need to try to silence this discussion as one poster is trying to do.

A deal that centers around Buch and Lundell as the centerpieces - with adjustments from either or both sides - has historical NHL value precedent not even that long ago, and since in some people's opinion it would be a best-case outcome for dealing Buch, it is worth discussing. And if not Lundell, we can feel free to talk about substitutes (Barrett Hayton? Etc).

But what is not productive is being dismissive under the pretense that "first line players are never traded for prospects," when in fact it has happened not even that long ago that first line players were traded for prospects.

I'm not dismissing it. I'm stating it is an outlier. You have change the circumstances and comparables several times already when you get questioned to make it seem even semi common.

 

[bleedblue94]

I want (a) young players to grow with Kakko and Lafreniere (this is more important to me than winning with the Zibanejad/Panarin/Kreider group), and (b) I would rather gamble on upside since it will come at perhaps a discount rather than pay a premium for an older, established player who we already know is a 60 point player. Ie, Buch is probably not returning Brayden Point or William Nylander, 24 year old established centers with similar point production. I'd have to add too much to get them, or I'd have to take either an older player (Danault) or a younger player (Glass? Krebs? Lundell? who requires projection). I'll take the younger and bank on developing them.

But I'm all for hearing other people's ideas.

Again, relying on players all the same age bracket doesn't make sense. You need diversity in experience, style, salary timing and more. Some people want a team of all sub 24 and it is not a recipe for success

 

[mas0764]

Again, relying on players all the same age bracket doesn't make sense. You need diversity in experience, style, salary timing and more. Some people want a team of all sub 24 and it is not a recipe for success

We already have players all over the age bracket. Not like I’m trying to run off Panarin and Zibanejad.

I just want a young stud center in the 19/21 age range to grow with Kakko and Lafreniere.

 

[bleedblue94]

We already have players all over the age bracket. Not like I’m trying to run off Panarin and Zibanejad.

I just want a young stud center in the 19/21 age range to grow with Kakko and Lafreniere.

We really don't, not long term players. We have how many players over 25 or 26? We are very heavy in the 19-23 year olds.

 

[mas0764]

We really don't, not long term players. We have how many players over 25 or 26? We are very heavy in the 19-23 year olds.

Panarin, Kreider, Trouba, Zibanejad. I fail to see how trading Buch who is 25 - a player age range we have a surplus of - for a 19 year old (which we only have two of), is somehow less diversity of age.

And if you need more veterans then go sign some. Getting a center to grow with Kakko and Lafreniere is super important for long term roster construction.