Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXX: Going 8-0 to close out might not be enough!

[mas0764]

why do we want to only focus on prospects for a roster that has holes that need nhl players to fill them?

I think there will be players available this summer that people may not now realize will be out there. Some teams are going to make big changes and there will be domino affects, especially in a capped out league.

I want (a) young players to grow with Kakko and Lafreniere (this is more important to me than winning with the Zibanejad/Panarin/Kreider group), and (b) I would rather gamble on upside since it will come at perhaps a discount rather than pay a premium for an older, established player who we already know is a 60 point player. Ie, Buch is probably not returning Brayden Point or William Nylander, 24 year old established centers with similar point production. I'd have to add too much to get them, or I'd have to take either an older player (Danault) or a younger player (Glass? Krebs? Lundell? who requires projection). I'll take the younger and bank on developing them.

But I'm all for hearing other people's ideas.

 

[Fitzy]

I want (a) young players to grow with Kakko and Lafreniere (this is more important to me than winning with the Zibanejad/Panarin/Kreider group), and (b) I would rather gamble on upside since it will come at perhaps a discount rather than pay a premium for an older, established player who we already know is a 60 point player. Ie, Buch is probably not returning Brayden Point or William Nylander, 24 year old established centers with similar point production. I'd have to add too much to get them, or I'd have to take either an older player (Danault) or a younger player (Glass? Krebs? Lundell? who requires projection). I'll take the younger and bank on developing them.

But I'm all for hearing other people's ideas.

Well but we also have an in-between group with players like Fox and Lindgren who are in between the 19-21 group and the 26-29 group.

I would add to Buchnevich to get a good young center in the 23-24 age range. I just think we should be looking at a 2A/1B option rather than an Eichel or Barkov.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Well but we also have an in-between group with players like Fox and Lindgren who are in between the 19-21 group and the 26-29 group.

I would add to Buchnevich to get a good young center in the 23-24 age range. I just think we should be looking at a 2A/1B option rather than an Eichel or Barkov.

Agree on the latter statement if we think Mika is the answer at 1c for the next 6 years.

 

[bl02]

Boy it’s a good thing Quinn is giving Blackwell 1st PP time. It’s important for his development next season. .
I like what Blackwell has done but let’s look at one of the kids in that spot.

Unreal. How Laf is not getting into the pp1 is so frustrating. What do we need to see from Blackwell in this spot??? What?

 

[mas0764]

Well but we also have an in-between group with players like Fox and Lindgren who are in between the 19-21 group and the 26-29 group.

I would add to Buchnevich to get a good young center in the 23-24 age range. I just think we should be looking at a 2A/1B option rather than an Eichel or Barkov.

Yeah but the 23-24 year old is most expensive, that's what I'm saying. Buch won't return a 23 year old 60 point center. He might return a 20 year old who will eventually be a 60 point center though.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Yeah but the 23-24 year old is most expensive, that's what I'm saying. Buch won't return a 23 year old 60 point center. He might return a 20 year old who will eventually be a 60 point center though.

Can't we draft one of those?

 

[Ruggs225]

Unreal. How Laf is not getting into the pp1 is so frustrating. What do we need to see from Blackwell in this spot??? What?

blackwell is a placeholder for panarin! Panarin isnt practicing but he is playing.

quinn actually removed blackwell from all PP time it looks.

 

[CLW]

Can’t imagine Brooks writing what he wrote unless he’s heard something from either the player side or the FO side about Quinn.

Maybe it has something to do with Panarin getting held out. If there isn’t an injury/maintenance issue, Quinn can GTFO

The fact that experienced, super star forwards like Panarin and Zib don't have any time for Quinn's approach is telling. The problem with the Rangers is not "too much" East-West, it's the lack of basic structure, tempo, clean zone exits/entries etc etc ie the "System". The top players are winging it, feeding off defensive break downs, poor coverage and the pp (against incompetent teams). When competent teams deny that it's game over.

If top players in the world are not buying what the coach sells, that's an issue, an issue that immediately stands out watching the Rangers.

The kids are very young and in a different boat, they are working on their basics and adapting to the league but they need a functional system to build on and support them going forward.

(Edit: Anyway sorry for Quinn post - I'll not mention this again in this thread).

 

[mas0764]

Can't we draft one of those?

I'd love to.

How?

We aren't in a position to get one this year and from now on pretty much we aren't going to be in the lottery anymore.

Buch is the ticket to acquire one. He's redundant to us yet valuable to identifiable teams that have a young center they could give us.

 

[rangersfansince08]

I'd love to.

How?

We aren't in a position to get one this year and from now on pretty much we aren't going to be in the lottery anymore.

Buch is the ticket to acquire one. He's redundant to us yet valuable to identifiable teams that have a young center they could give us.

Do guys like Raty not have that potential?

 

[mas0764]

Do guys like Raty not have that potential?

Raty will probably go before we pick, but consensus seems to say he's more like a third line center at this point.

Most of the other forwards are either not projecting as centers or seems no better bets to turn into top line or even top 6 players. Which is usually the case after you get past 15 or so in a draft.

Of course there are always the occasional Brayden Points drafted in the 20s but that's luck more than anything.

 

[Off Sides]

I can't even come up with any really good ideas.

Under the flat cap, I don't see teams moving out their top tier prospects/youth when even under the rising cap there was stiff reluctance.

The one thing this cap may make advantageous, some UFAs are going to get less than they want, and they may sign short term just to get to the other side of the flat cap. If they want to go after Goodrow, Janmark, or something similar I think that could be an area where they could make some effective, yet seen as underwhelming acquisitions.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Raty will probably go before we pick, but consensus seems to say he's more like a third line center at this point.

Most of the other forwards are either not projecting as centers or seems no better bets to turn into top line or even top 6 players. Which is usually the case after you get past 15 or so in a draft.

Of course there are always the occasional Brayden Points drafted in the 20s but that's luck more than anything.

This has to be a horrible draft. Raty is going in the top 14 and only projects as a third line center. yikes.

Wasn't Point drafted in the 70s? Tampa also got Cirelli in the third and Kucherov on the second. Sounds like more than luck. We should have one of the best socuting departments given our resources.

 

[rangersfansince08]

I can't even come up with any really good ideas.

Under the flat cap, I don't see teams moving out their top tier prospects/youth when even under the rising cap there was stiff reluctance.

The one thing this cap may make advantageous, some UFAs are going to get less than they want, and they may sign short term just to get to the other side of the flat cap. If they want to go after Goodrow, Janmark, or something similar I think that could be an area where they could make some effective, yet seen as underwhelming acquisitions.

I'm with you. We probably need to stay the course, get a new coach who can coach up Chytil, Kravstov,Laf, Kakko, Miller to be a pain to play against.

 

[bl02]

blackwell is a placeholder for panarin! Panarin isnt practicing but he is playing.

quinn actually removed blackwell from all PP time it looks.

Didn’t know Panarin was playing. But wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t and Laf still didn’t get more pp time over blackwell

 

[CLW]

I want (a) young players to grow with Kakko and Lafreniere (this is more important to me than winning with the Zibanejad/Panarin/Kreider group), and (b) I would rather gamble on upside since it will come at perhaps a discount rather than pay a premium for an older, established player who we already know is a 60 point player. Ie, Buch is probably not returning Brayden Point or William Nylander, 24 year old established centers with similar point production. I'd have to add too much to get them, or I'd have to take either an older player (Danault) or a younger player (Glass? Krebs? Lundell? who requires projection). I'll take the younger and bank on developing them.

But I'm all for hearing other people's ideas.

I'm in the development camp as well. Drafting a C this year is a 5 year project before true impact, and established young C are usually too expensive/even more difficult to obtain because of limited availability. UFA is tricky and expensive since we already have Zib and Strome approach that. Barkov would be the ideal UFA, but why bet on a 10-20% chance he bails on Florida?

That leaves us with C prospects from the 2017 - 2020 draft as an ideal fit, and/or, a Lindholm (26) or Larkin (24) as targets if Calgary and Detroit look to revamp.

Lundell, Kotkaniemi (big, physical 200-foot center prospect who might be pried out of crazy Hab land due to impatience/need to win now and roster issues), Krebs are the type of players that would fit in well with the developing team. Maybe Poehling (22) if the Rangers rate him enough. Poehling may be a level below what the Rangers are looking for, but he'd be a nice fit behind Chytil (and cheaper than a Lundell lvl prospect), if Chytil can actually develop into a responsible 2 way C with excellent offense.

 

[Ola]

Larry is at it again, questioning the players for being forced to take things in their own hands.

Yeah, trade Panarin, trade Zibanejad. Bring in some N-S clutch players, I am sure the results will be better.

We have seen this all season. In my world seing it in ONE GAME is totally unacceptable. Where is the leadership in this organization? Where is Gorton?

Modern smart skilled experienced players just don’t stop listening to the coach without a reason. It’s a total disaster when you get to that point.

 

[Avery16]

The fact that experienced, super star forwards like Panarin and Zib don't have any time for Quinn's approach is telling. The problem with the Rangers is not "too much" East-West, it's the lack of basic structure, tempo, clean zone exits/entries etc etc ie the "System". The top players are winging it, feeding off defensive break downs, poor coverage and the pp (against incompetent teams). When competent teams deny that it's game over.

If top players in the world are not buying what the coach sells, that's an issue, an issue that immediately stands out watching the Rangers.

The kids are very young and in a different boat, they are working on their basics and adapting to the league but they need a functional system to build on and support them going forward.

(Edit: Anyway sorry for Quinn post - I'll not mention this again in this thread).

Maybe it’s Quinn who needs to adjust his plan to reflect the fact that he has a superstar with solid top-six support. He likely did not have that at BU, other than one season of Eichel.

 

[CLW]

Let's not make this into another Quinn thread pls.

 

[JohnC]

There is certainly a balance. But there is a difference in altering your organization by trading a Lundkvist for Newhook and signing Danault at 29 when he is looking for big money.

My big thing is what do we know? We didn't learn a ton about our youth. Kakko could be a relentless defensive forward. Lafreniere could have a mean streak and edge. Is chytil definitely a center? Basically, do we want to make a resounding change when we could have answers here? I'm all for supplemental help. I'm all for cheap, short term answers like Blackwood. But I'm very gun shy about moving on from any of the kids after a bad April.

I don’t really think the issue people have is with the kids. I think the main issue people have is that our roster would probably be better served with 2014 Derek Stepan and Derrick Brassard as our centers than 2021 Mika Zibanejad and Ryan Strome.

The point is that the kids AREN’T the problem.

 

[Fitzy]

I think you need a mix of east west and north south players.

Kreider, Chytil and Gauthier are all clearly better when playing direct, puck-to-net hockey. Rooney is too.

I don't think the fact that our skilled perimeter players are by and large ignoring Quinn is a huge issue. Panarin and his line deserve the creative license that Jagr and his boys were given back in the day.

It's the Lafreniere-Zibenajad-Buchnevich group that, to me, could benefit from some more cynical hockey.

 

[duhmetreE]

He hit the nail on the head.... it's scary when Brooksy is sounding like me

There is an issue at the top of the Rangers lineup that must be resolved before the hierarchy can move into what necessarily must be a Summer of Reconstruction to transform this collection of homogenous ingredients into a more diverse blend that can take the next step in its evolution.

But more consequential than that, it has also been clear that the high-end players have had little if any interest in changing their approach in order to accommodate the coach. It is their way, their increasingly obstinate way, in which there has been no quarter given by either side.

Here’s the thing, though. The Rangers were a lot of east-west last year, but it was not like this. The post-game taffy-pull did not exist, at least not like this. And the skill guys — and, honestly, we’re talking for the most part about Panarin, Zibanejad and Strome — weren’t like this against the top teams. They were not like this against the Islanders.
____________

Like I've been saying... His expiration date has passed.

 

[DutchShamrock]

I don’t really think the issue people have is with the kids. I think the main issue people have is that our roster would probably be better served with 2014 Derek Stepan and Derrick Brassard as our centers than 2021 Mika Zibanejad and Ryan Strome.

The point is that the kids AREN’T the problem.

I'm not blaming the kids. But they weren't really put into a position to inform the staff either. So rather than just go addressing a perceived weakness, like Trouba with RD, I think we need to be somewhat patient and realize next year isn't the goal. Don't go out looking to find expensive solutions when we aren't exactly sure what the problem is. Yes, there were issues this season, but I'm not convinced things like toughness and assertiveness aren't in the organization.

 

[duhmetreE]

I think you need a mix of east west and north south players.

Kreider, Chytil and Gauthier are all clearly better when playing direct, puck-to-net hockey. Rooney is too.

I don't think the fact that our skilled perimeter players are by and large ignoring Quinn is a huge issue. Panarin and his line deserve the creative license that Jagr and his boys were given back in the day.

It's the Lafreniere-Zibenajad-Buchnevich group that, to me, could benefit from some more cynical hockey.

That's the key. We need to be able to play all ways/styles. We need to be able to adjust. We need to be well-rounded.... BUT There needs to be a foundation/structure to follow or fall back on. IMO The best thing for our youth is structure.

Issue I have right now, the vets look completely disinterested. It's the textbook definition of 'going through the motions'... They are not buying in.

I see teams like Buffalo and NJD that are bad but they do not give up. They are relentless. Every team will have an 'off-day' but we have been having an 'off-season'.

 

[effen]

Looks like Uncle Larry found my post about the top 6 rebellion from last week in the fire quinn thread and made a column.

Attaboy.