Speculation: Roster Building Thread LIII: Free Agent Frenzy

[Priorae]

Cap question (or comment maybe). I assume (May be wrong) that a franchise can’t arbitrarily decide to accelerate future payments to a current year. For example, last year using cap space to just pay Staal additional monies on his contract and lower the back end. (Makes sense for player and team).

What is the downside to this? Allows for a team to use maximum cap space efficiently while the player gets the money up front. The argument from a teams perspective may be that you have a less motivated player, but in the case of say a shattenkirk, I bet the rangers would pay him 9M this year if they could lower future obligations. It wouldn’t be common, as most teams are right up against the cap.

Thought I’d throw this out there, because I’m probably missing something.

 

[BB88]

They don’t have the cap space for both

24M right now, they either trade or buy out Reimer.

If they land Panarin they can move Hoffman easily for 5M extra cap space.

Where as Rangers have 17M with Trouba unsigned.

 

[GAGLine]

Not available for free

Free agents aren't free either.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Do they really? Pat Brisson and JP Barry are obviously two of the mega agents in the NHL, but the other two (George Bazos and Paul Theofanous) have relatively small client lists and none are Czechs. This is only based on what's listed on puckpedia, but it does seem iffy on a surface level. Then again, you did say you were 50/50 on this whole thing.

Free agency rumors to me are always 50/50 at best to me because of the nature of the situation.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

24M right now, they either trade or buy out Reimer.

If they land Panarin they can move Hoffman easily for 5M extra cap space.

Where as Rangers have 17M with Trouba unsigned.

24m right now with only 8 forwards, 5 defensemen and 1 goalie signed. Big difference

 

[RGY]

24M right now, they either trade or buy out Reimer.

If they land Panarin they can move Hoffman easily for 5M extra cap space.

Where as Rangers have 17M with Trouba unsigned.

Okay but thats not comparing apples to apples.

The Panthers would still need to fill out their 4th line plus one more forward.

They need 4 right now. Now you can say 2 of those are RFAs that need to be re-signed.

Hoffman is swapped out with Panarin.

They would need to sign a backup or bring up the other kid.

Between Hoffman and Reimer, that is $8 million being moved out.

Say they sign Panarin for $12 and Bob for $11.

They would have $9 million to re-sign their (4) RFAs, bring in another forward, and a backup.

Sure they could probably make it all work but lets not pretend like they have a ton of cap space. It isnt much different than what the Rangers could do.

For one the Rangers can have their 4 lines filled out.

They could trade Namestnikov, Vesey, and buyout Shattenkirk. Thats about $9 million right there.

They Qualify Lemmy, ADA, and Buch. Maybe they bridge Buch and ADA.

If they absolutely need to, to start the season, they could move Kreider or Buch and that would give them more of a cushion in cap space

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

They Qualify Lemmy, ADA, and Buch. Maybe they bridge Buch and ADA.

If they absolutely need to, to start the season, they could move Kreider or Buch and that would give them more of a cushion in cap space

This should be his official nickname. Ace of Spades is his theme music.

Fits his play style to a T

 

[BB88]

Okay but thats not comparing apples to apples.

The Panthers would still need to fill out their 4th line plus one more forward.

They need 4 right now. Now you can say 2 of those are RFAs that need to be re-signed.

Hoffman is swapped out with Panarin.

They would need to sign a backup or bring up the other kid.

Between Hoffman and Reimer, that is $8 million being moved out.

Say they sign Panarin for $12 and Bob for $11.

They would have $9 million to re-sign their (4) RFAs, bring in another forward, and a backup.

Sure they could probably make it all work but lets not pretend like they have a ton of cap space. It isnt much different than what the Rangers could do.

For one the Rangers can have their 4 lines filled out.

They could trade Namestnikov, Vesey, and buyout Shattenkirk. Thats about $9 million right there.

They Qualify Lemmy, ADA, and Buch. Maybe they bridge Buch and ADA.

If they absolutely need to, to start the season, they could move Kreider or Buch and that would give them more of a cushion in cap space

24m right now with only 8 forwards, 5 defensemen and 1 goalie signed. Big difference

I know, and Reimer won't be on the roster if they land Bob, that's 2.5M more there.
So you are at 26.5M or so, Hoffman gets traded and you are at over 31M in cap space. For Florida Bob+ Panarin would take max 21-22M of cap space probably, leaving 10M left.

Goalies would be Bob& Monty(1M or so), and the rest of the forwards would be filled with prospects pretty much.

If they can get them both they can fit them under the roster. They have lot of forwards/ young cheap players pushing for spots.

 

[pld459666]

Free agents aren't free either.

You're right.

Signing Panarin is not free.

It will force us to move deadweight contracts and players not in the long term plans anyway.

Not seeing the downside. But that's me

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I know, and Reimer won't be on the roster if they land Bob, that's 2.5M more there.
So you are at 26.5M or so, Hoffman gets traded and you are at over 31M in cap space. For Florida Bob+ Panarin would take max 21-22M of cap space probably, leaving 10M left.

Goalies would be Bob& Monty(1M or so), and the rest of the forwards would be filled with prospects pretty much.

If they can get them both they can fit them under the roster. They have lot of forwards/ young cheap players pushing for spots.

That's assuming they can offload Hoffman's contract without taking on any money, and that they then have the rest play for salaries around 1 million.

 

[Off Sides]

Entry level ends of those who are signed or were 1st round picks

2020
Georgiev

2021
Chytil, Andersson, Howden, Hajek, Rykov, Lindgren, Shesterkin

2022
Kravtsov, Fox, Kakko (assuming he signs this year)

(depends on when they sign their entry level yet could end in 2023, 2024)
Miller, Lundkvist

How many of them are going to make the NHL, and what will they get for their contracts after their entry levels?

Beyond that are they keeping Trouba, DeAngelo, Buchnevich, Lemieux, Zibanejad, Skjei?

All of them and anyone else who makes it, or their replacements, will all carry some sort of cap hits.


Part of the stockpiling is reserving cap space to pay for it.

Trouba may come in at 8M or above.

If either goalie prospect turns starter, they are going to likely get at least some 5-6M cap hit long term off their entry level. Maybe higher

Kakko, Kravtsov could end up at 10-11M right off their entry levels.

Even those who end up more 2nd /3rd line, 2nd/3rd pair are going to be in 3-6M cap hit range should they go long term. And even if they go bridge, those bridged would end within two-three years and they'd need a bigger contract to be kept. Yes hopefully there will be some new entry level contracts coming up behind them, yet should this roster end up in the playoffs, those picks/prospects are not likely to be early picks or as good of prospects, or as numerous.

If this rebuild goes as well as everyone hopes, the cap space is going to evaporate pretty quickly.

 

[TheBPA]

I work in NY, live in CT and I most certainly do not pay both taxes.

I pay NY tax and file to get back a portion of the difference between the NY and CT tax rates.

Sure. Because you pay in one state you get a credit in the other.

If you lived in a no tax state you would not get that credit.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

You're right.

Signing Panarin is not free.

It will force us to move deadweight contracts and players not in the long term plans anyway.

Not seeing the downside. But that's me

You've been a poster here since 2002, so I think you should have observed quite a few instances of how much signing an FA for an absurd amount of money (under cap rules Panarin would be second only to Gomez in % of cap taken up) can cost your team down the line.

 

[NernieBichols]

Yes.

Boom

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Rangers would match 4.5MM on a longer term deal every day. I think where they would balk is anywhere over 5.5MM.

 

[GAGLine]

Cap question (or comment maybe). I assume (May be wrong) that a franchise can’t arbitrarily decide to accelerate future payments to a current year. For example, last year using cap space to just pay Staal additional monies on his contract and lower the back end. (Makes sense for player and team).

What is the downside to this? Allows for a team to use maximum cap space efficiently while the player gets the money up front. The argument from a teams perspective may be that you have a less motivated player, but in the case of say a shattenkirk, I bet the rangers would pay him 9M this year if they could lower future obligations. It wouldn’t be common, as most teams are right up against the cap.

Thought I’d throw this out there, because I’m probably missing something.

No, teams can't do this, but I've often thought that they should be able to do so with cap penalties. Like with Girardi's cap hits. We haven't spent to the cap the last couple years, so why not let us use that unused cap space to pay off those future cap penalties? I think both the NHL and the NHLPA would be in favor of it.

As far as paying off futures on active players, I'm not sure. It feels like there could be ways to abuse it, and potential issues involving escrow.

 

[GregSirico]

I don't think Florida can realistically afford both Panarin and Bob.

 

[GAGLine]

You're right.

Signing Panarin is not free.

It will force us to move deadweight contracts and players not in the long term plans anyway.

Not seeing the downside. But that's me

Cap space is a commodity. Tying up 12 mil in cap space, or whatever he ends up at, is a cost. It can cost us the opportunity to make other moves in the future. Look at Toronto. They signed Tavares for just money, now they don't have the cap space to fix their defense.

If we sign Panarin and then have to trade Kreider to make space, and we only get 80 cents on the dollar for him as a result, that is a cost too. If we have to buy out Shattenkirk to make space, that is a cost too against future caps.

 

[cheech70]

Whatever contract Panarin signs there will be plenty of money for multiple wife's and children. It comes down to lifestyle and opportunities for his girlfriend model to be in the thick of the fashion industry. If like Trouba and his considerations for his wife's career is part of the equation Breadmans girl is pulling for NYC. And do not minimize the pull of a woman!

 

[BBKers]

I am not for Panarin. Too rich in dollar$ to finish the rebuild properly. But I do wonder what Gorton was referring to regarding buyouts when he stated they could use the 10% summer cap overage extension and the second buyout opportunity if there are cases filed for arbitration. This indicates to me that they do have something bigger in mind.

 

[LORDE]

I find it humorous that folks get bent about some kid photoshopping for MSG. Probably wants to make video games or do CGI for major motion pictures, can’t wait to move to LA and is making some $ doing this for a jumbotron in an arena. He/she felt the layout looked better like this and couldn’t care less about handedness of the player.

Everyone thinks that people who work for MSG are all HUGE NYR/ KNICKS fans who listen to Billy Joel all day. They’re not.

 

[GAGLine]

I don't think Florida can realistically afford both Panarin and Bob.

If they trade Hoffman without money coming back, that should be enough. They don't have any significant RFAs, but they do need to fill spots.

I'd say they are closer to fitting both than we are to fitting just Panarin. The no tax thing will help.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I don't think Florida can realistically afford both Panarin and Bob.

They have fewer hurdles to clear to fit in both than we do to fit in just Panarin.

 

[BB88]

That's assuming they can offload Hoffman's contract without taking on any money, and that they then have the rest play for salaries around 1 million.

Hoffman scored 36 goals, 70 points last year.
At 5M for 1 more year he's going to have takers.

With Bob, Monty, their top goalie prospect pre Knight will be their back up.
Mix of Borgstrom/Vatrano/Malgin/Tippett will create their 3rd line or atleast 2/3 of it.

They have space& possibilities to create room and an owner who wants to spend. They need to start winning.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If they trade Hoffman without money coming back, that should be enough. They don't have any significant RFAs, but they do need to fill spots.

I'd say they are closer to fitting both than we are to fitting just Panarin. The no tax thing will help.

All they have to do is dump Reimer.