Speculation: Roster Building Thread LII: Countdown to Free Agency

[Dijock94]

His face and neck had a lot to lose

Kevin Shattenkirk discusses Renny Jam and his offseason

Just to give some context he discusses training at Prentiss with Adam Fox

 

[GAGLine]

Well even with Rantanen, Colorado has no cap issues. They have a ton of space and I know they don't have many guys signed but outside of Rantanen all their RFA forwards will come in relatively cheap.

I don't know what their budget is, but it was a hypothetical. The point is that a lot of teams are looking to move players and there are a lot of reasons why our guys might not be as easy to move. We all thought Kreider would go before/during the draft and that didn't happen. I'm sure he will go at some point, but it could be after a bunch of other things shake out.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

I've heard both 7.5 and 8 for Trouba. Given what other players have been paid so far this offseason, I'm leaning toward 8.

Another part of this equation is that we have several players with performance bonuses (Kakko, Chytil, Andersson, Fox, Georgiev). The others may not earn significant bonus amounts, but Kakko will get max bonuses in his contract, and probably has a good chance of earning many of them. We need to save enough cap space to account for mid-season call-ups and to pay any bonuses that are earned. We don't want the bonuses rolling over to next year.

Yes Kaako will get the max, which I think would put his total AAV once signed (and he hits all of them) around $3.5MM.

For all the players you listed other than Kaako, their combined bonuses is about $2.5MM, if they hit everything, which they wont.

I think a big one in the rookie contracts is if they win the Caldar or other trophies. They cant all win it!

 

[RangerBoy]

If that was the case and the Rangers were ok with the deal would be done already. Likely his agent working through the media.

It's not done so that likely means they are still negotiating.

The Rangers don't really have much of leverage here. Trouba can walk at the end of the season. The Rangers better hope it's only $8M per. There is nothing preventing Trouba from going to salary arbitration and getting a one year salary from the arbitrator and going free agent next summer.

Trouba can file on July 5 and the hearing will between July 20 something to early August.

 

[SA16]

I've heard both 7.5 and 8 for Trouba. Given what other players have been paid so far this offseason, I'm leaning toward 8.

Another part of this equation is that we have several players with performance bonuses (Kakko, Chytil, Andersson, Fox, Georgiev). The others may not earn significant bonus amounts, but Kakko will get max bonuses in his contract, and probably has a good chance of earning many of them. We need to save enough cap space to account for mid-season call-ups and to pay any bonuses that are earned. We don't want the bonuses rolling over to next year.

Is there somewhere that lists what each players schedule A bonuses are? What are the terms for goalies?

 

[GAGLine]

Is there somewhere that lists what each players schedule A bonuses are?

The CBA lists all of the different types of schedule A and B bonuses that can be included in a contract, but I don't know anywhere that lists specifically which ones a player has.

 

[Avery16]

Does it even help Vegas to move Clarkson? He doesn't count against the cap while he's on LTIR, right?

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Does it even help Vegas to move Clarkson? He doesn't count against the cap while he's on LTIR, right?

It does, I believe he counts against the offseason cap, which with the Karlsson signing max's them out even with th 10% cushion.

 

[Avery16]

It does, I believe he counts against the offseason cap, which with the Karlsson signing max's them out even with th 10% cushion.

Can they just bury some people in the minors until the season starts? That doesn't sound like a very serious problem. Whats the enforcement, pay a penalty until they get under the cap?

 

[SA16]

Does it even help Vegas to move Clarkson? He doesn't count against the cap while he's on LTIR, right?

 

[Avery16]

Sounds like they're fine. Not under much pressure, at least.

 

[apoptygma]

Sounds like they're fine. Not under much pressure, at least.

They are OK for now, but lots have to be moved before the season starts.

 

[Avery16]

They are OK for now, but lots have to be moved before the season starts.

But moving Clarkson doesn't help them there. He won't count against the cap on LTIR. Why would they give us an asset to take the contract if moving the contract doesn't help their cap crunch?

 

[Thirty One]

The Rangers don't really have much of leverage here. Trouba can walk at the end of the season. The Rangers better hope it's only $8M per. There is nothing preventing Trouba from going to salary arbitration and getting a one year salary from the arbitrator and going free agent next summer.

Trouba reportedly has 1-2 teams he wants. He could delay his big payday and go UFA next summer, where the Rangers would likely pick up a 1st round pick and prospect at the deadline, and hope that the other 0-1 teams he's interested is willing to pick up the bill the Rangers wouldn't.

How do you conclude that Trouba holds all the cards?

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Did not know about a summer LTIR. Learn something knew everyday.

 

[Waivers]

Kreider does not need a new contract for this upcoming season so he should not be included.

Again Offseason is just getting started. They could move some contracts.

True Kreider doesn’t need a contract for this year. Even if we trade Namestnikov and Vesey that’s ~$6,200,000 in addition to $9,500,000 (which is the amount of cap left over after signing Trouba), which is ~$15,700,000. Let’s say Panarin generously signs for $11,000,000 - that’s $4,700,000. Even if we move Fast, it’s not enough. I just don’t think that’s enough between Panarin, Buchnevich, Lemieux, and ADA. If we kept Kreider, we somehow need to get rid of Smith and probably Shattenkirk, which unfortunately doesn’t seem very likely.

 

[bobbop]

Here’s one more potential landing spot for Kreider; Florida. When they don’t get Panarin.

 

[apoptygma]

But moving Clarkson doesn't help them there. He won't count against the cap on LTIR. Why would they give us an asset to take the contract if moving the contract doesn't help their cap crunch?

There is issues with having a player on LITR all season. Can't built up cap space for deadline additions, all rookie bonuses will have to roll over to next year etc.
At the moment it looks like VGK will be at over 7 millions ABOVE the cap without signing Gusev. Even with the LTIR in season they will be over.

Vegas Golden Knights - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

With the Karlsson signing and the Clarkson they should be at 88,525 million salary (21 players, but no back up goalie). The Clarkson contract is 5,5 million they can put on LTIR.
So they have to move contracts just to be a legal team in October, and if they do and still have to use LTIR from day 1 they will be against the cap all season wich will make it hard to de stuff for the GM.

 

[Vitto79]

But moving Clarkson doesn't help them there. He won't count against the cap on LTIR. Why would they give us an asset to take the contract if moving the contract doesn't help their cap crunch?

Seems like they have the move other players to stay under the cap during the offseason if they keep him

No idea how they sign Gusev he’s going to want like 4 million Atleast . He’s giving up a good pay put fron the khl

 

[Avery16]

There is issues with having a player on LITR all season. Can't built up cap space for deadline additions, all rookie bonuses will have to roll over to next year etc.
At the moment it looks like VGK will be at over 7 millions ABOVE the cap without signing Gusev. Even with the LTIR in season they will be over.

Vegas Golden Knights - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

With the Karlsson signing and the Clarkson they should be at 88,525 million salary (21 players, but no back up goalie). The Clarkson contract is 5,5 million they can put on LTIR.
So they have to move contracts just to be a legal team in October, and if they do and still have to use LTIR from day 1 they will be against the cap all season wich will make it hard to de stuff for the GM.

It just sounds to me that a move other than Clarkson fixes this problem more efficiently. I don't see them adding a big prospect or high pick to move Clarkson.

 

[bobbop]

VGK has to move salary. Clarkson can go on LTIR but there are ramifications. It’s more complicated than just putting him in LTIR. No one is rushing to do McPhee any favors. They also owe Clarkson a $3MM+ payout next year.

 

[GAGLine]

But moving Clarkson doesn't help them there. He won't count against the cap on LTIR. Why would they give us an asset to take the contract if moving the contract doesn't help their cap crunch?

He still counts against the cap while on LTIR. His cap hit isn't removed. The cap ceiling is raised. The amount it is raised is dependent on their cap commitments at the time he is placed on LTIR.

The cap is set at 81.5 mil and Clarkson has a 5.25 mil cap hit. If Vegas were only at say 75 mil out of 81.5, putting Clarkson on LTIR would do nothing except open a roster spot, which regular IR already does. If they were at 80 out of 81.5, then their cap ceiling would go up to 85.25 mil. That's why teams try to get as close to the cap as possible when they have a player who will go onto LTIR to start the season. They want to max out their LTIR cap space.

The key difference is in how regular cap space and LTIR cap space is handled. Regular cap space can be banked. LTIR cap space can't.

The season is divided into days and the cap is divided by the total number of days in the season. Each team can spend up to that amount each day. So say for example the cap is 100 mil and there are 100 days in the season. Each team can spend 1 mil per day. Let's say Vegas is only spending 950k per day. That 50k that they aren't spending can be used later in the season. If they spend 950k for the first 50 days of the season, they can then spend up to 1.05 mil per day the rest of the way.

LTIR cap space doesn't work that way. Same situation, but they have a player on LTIR, raising their cap ceiling to 104 mil (1.04 mil per day). They are spending 1.02 mil per day. The 20k that they aren't spending each day is lost. They can't bank it and use it later. If they are spending 1.02 out of 1.04 per day for the first 50 days, they still can't spend more than 1.04 per day the rest of the way.

It's not an ideal situation to be in.

 

[apoptygma]

It just sounds to me that a move other than Clarkson fixes this problem more efficiently. I don't see them adding a big prospect or high pick to move Clarkson.

Agree. My first comment was more about that VGK has a lot of work to do, but have the time until season starts. Clarckson is the biggest "bad" contract they have, and a LTIR contract should be cheaper for them to move (atleast if it is insured). For NYR that have Kakko that might hit a number of bonuses we do not want to dip into the LTIR usage at all.

VGK have other players that might be interesting for us. Eakin, Reaves & Haula all have 1 year left and should be worth some assets at deadline if we get them close to free from VGK. Gusev was the leading points scorer in KHL this season, and that should be worth a decent contract. He is still unsigned, and as only 26 year old might be a target for Gorton.

 

[apoptygma]

He still counts against the cap while on LTIR. His cap hit isn't removed. The cap ceiling is raised. The amount it is raised is dependent on their cap commitments at the time he is placed on LTIR.

The cap is set at 81.5 mil and Clarkson has a 5.25 mil cap hit. If Vegas were only at say 75 mil out of 81.5, putting Clarkson on LTIR would do nothing except open a roster spot, which regular IR already does. If they were at 80 out of 81.5, then their cap ceiling would go up to 85.25 mil. That's why teams try to get as close to the cap as possible when they have a player who will go onto LTIR to start the season. They want to max out their LTIR cap space.

The key difference is in how regular cap space and LTIR cap space is handled. Regular cap space can be banked. LTIR cap space can't.

The season is divided into days and the cap is divided by the total number of days in the season. Each team can spend up to that amount each day. So say for example the cap is 100 mil and there are 100 days in the season. Each team can spend 1 mil per day. Let's say Vegas is only spending 950k per day. That 50k that they aren't spending can be used later in the season. If they spend 950k for the first 50 days of the season, they can then spend up to 1.05 mil per day the rest of the way.

LTIR cap space doesn't work that way. Same situation, but they have a player on LTIR, raising their cap ceiling to 104 mil (1.04 mil per day). They are spending 1.02 mil per day. The 20k that they aren't spending each day is lost. They can't bank it and use it later. If they are spending 1.02 out of 1.04 per day for the first 50 days, they still can't spend more than 1.04 per day the rest of the way.

It's not an ideal situation to be in.

Also Cody Glass might hit some ELC bonuses. As far as I know they can not be paid by LTIR space, so they will have to be counted against next seasons cap, and that will futher complicate things then.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

VGK has to move salary. Clarkson can go on LTIR but there are ramifications. It’s more complicated than just putting him in LTIR. No one is rushing to do McPhee any favors. They also owe Clarkson a $3MM+ payout next year.

Doesn't he have 1 year left and isn't his contract insured? Also, his base salary is only 1M this year. Maybe insurance doesn't cover signing bonus part which is 2.25 on July 1st.

After that bonus gets payed, shouldn't he be easier to move?

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This stuff is way too complicated to really understand fully