Roster Building Thread IV (2022-23): Luck of the Irish

[effen]

I refuse to believe we finally get a #1 and #2 pick and they're bottom6 grinders.

I wont allow it

They won't be, but they've got to improve some part of all of speed, agility, burst, or anticipation or they'll always be the ones pressured and not the ones pressuring.

 

[effen]

Not this badly.

They were slam dunk picks and they're not even really decent in the NHL so far.

Their lack of speed never held them back at lower levels.

I don't believe Robertson is fundamentally more capable than Lafreniere and Draisaitl is a complete lummox.

You can absolutely succeed in the NHL not being a plus skater.

Adam Fox isn't a plus skater and he's an all-world defenseman in the fastest NHL ever. Patrice Bergeron isn't a plus skater and he's still the best 5v5 player in the league at 37.

Joe Pavelski honest-to-God CAN'T skate. He's 5'11". He's 38 years old. Nobody will accuse him of having "God tier" hands. 55 points in 63 games this year.

The skating is a complete copout.

All those guys have elite to god tier processing and anticipation. You don't need to be able to skate well with that. Economy of movement.

Pavelski was at one point the best deflection/tip guy in the league. Havent watched him closely since SJ but you're underselling his hands.

 

[duhmetreE]

Not this badly.

They were slam dunk picks and they're not even really decent in the NHL so far.

Their lack of speed never held them back at lower levels.

I don't believe Robertson is fundamentally more capable than Lafreniere and Draisaitl is a complete lummox.

You can absolutely succeed in the NHL not being a plus skater.

Adam Fox isn't a plus skater and he's an all-world defenseman in the fastest NHL ever. Patrice Bergeron isn't a plus skater and he's still the best 5v5 player in the league at 37.

Joe Pavelski honest-to-God CAN'T skate. He's 5'11". He's 38 years old. Nobody will accuse him of having "God tier" hands. 55 points in 63 games this year.

The skating is a complete copout.

See Huberdeau.

God-tier season playing with Brunette
Sucks ass in CGY playing our style hockey.

Styles and gameplanning matter in this sense.

 

[Machinehead]

All those guys have elite to god tier processing and anticipation. You don't need to be able to skate well with that. Economy of movement.

Pavelski was at one point the best deflection/tip guy in the league. Havent watched him closely since SJ but you're underselling his hands.

Kreider is best deflection/tip player in the league. His hands suck. It's not the same thing.

I don't buy that every slow player has Gretzky IQ and Jagr hands.

Jacob Trouba is a poor skater, and pretty dumb, and has no hands. He's been an NHL player for ten years and a way more effective one than Lafreniere could dream of right now.

Mika Zibanedad isn't a particularly phenomenal skater and has ok hands. You're telling me Zibanejad processes the game at an all-world level? He just uses the strengths he has. So does Kreider.

If you're telling me Lafreniere and Kakko don't have enough strengths to be top six NHL forwards, I don't agree. They're just bad at things nobody in this league should be bad at, like a bunch of our players.

 

[Machinehead]

Oh and BTW, according to *checks notes* everybody, Lafreniere did have excellent hands and an all-world hockey sense. What happened to that?

The retcon on how talented *everyone* thought this guy was is off the chain.

Kakko absolutely does have all-world hands. Why does he still stink?

 

[duhmetreE]

Excellent. I’d also add, as @leetch99 mentioned as well, the forwards as a group need to attack the net more frequently. Not even every shift. But enough to keep the defense on the back foot.

I think they get to the front of the net eventually ( even though timing isn't great ) but they most definitely do not attack the middle of the ice consistently.
There's a difference imo.

 

[duhmetreE]

Oh and BTW, according to *checks notes* everybody, Lafreniere did have excellent hands and an all-world hockey sense. What happened to that?

The retcon on how talented *everyone* thought this guy was is off the chain.

Kakko absolutely does have all-world hands. Why does he still stink?

They will continue to improve the stronger they get.

Their linemates will be a factor as well. I still dont understand how kids are just left to their own devices instead of allowing a Vet or two to play with them.... but this isn't a developmental leauge <sniff>

They develop in practice.... but we dont practice.

 

[Machinehead]

They're sure as hell underwhelming but Lafreniere and Kakko are NHL players.

Kakko in particular is comfortably an NHL player.

I know "NHL player" isn't flattering but at their age, it they had unsalvageable lack of ability, they wouldn't be.

They simply haven't worked on basic skills that are improvable in any way that's apparent to me, and I think you could say that about a lot of guys.

There's been no indication at all from the team that there's an unwillingness to do as told. When that happened with Kravtsov, we knew about it.

We joke about "they don't practice" but evidently, what the Rangers prioritize as developable skills doesn't help most guys.

 

[Crease]

My experience is that hockey coaches focus on gameplay and special teams during practices, whereas skills training happens in the offseason at skills camps with private instructors (if the player is responsible enough to do it).

 

[Machinehead]

My experience is that hockey coaches focus on gameplay and special teams during practices, whereas skills training happens in the offseason at skills camps with skills coaches (if the player is responsible enough to do it).

Well fire that guy!

 

[Crease]

Well fire that guy!

I mean, you’re firing pretty much every hockey coach then.

 

[Machinehead]

I mean, you’re firing pretty much every hockey coach then.

Good!

 

[effen]

Kreider is best deflection/tip player in the league. His hands suck. It's not the same thing.

I don't buy that every slow player has Gretzky IQ and Jagr hands.

Jacob Trouba is a poor skater, and pretty dumb, and has no hands. He's been an NHL player for ten years and a way more effective one than Lafreniere could dream of right now.

Mika Zibanedad isn't a particularly phenomenal skater and has ok hands. You're telling me Zibanejad processes the game at an all-world level? He just uses the strengths he has. So does Kreider.

If you're telling me Lafreniere and Kakko don't have enough strengths to be top six NHL forwards, I don't agree. They're just bad at things nobody in this league should be bad at, like a bunch of our players.

I think the ultra shitty Garden ice really doesn't help when they play half their games on it, generally speaking. I can see an argument the organization teaches the way it does to mitigate that. That's compelling.

I made a distinction with young players needing certain attributes because they're less smart on the ice than older ones. That can go a lot of ways but most usefully in that the Bergerons of the world not only keep moving but they very rarely move in the wrong direction. Trouba is effective for that reason, and when he's not and has to scramble back the other way you go "holy shit he's slow as hell" because he is.

Laf stands still A LOT when he's playing bad. Kakko less so. That's a very big reason Kakko is a better player at this juncture.

 

[Machinehead]

I think the ultra shitty Garden ice really doesn't help when they play half their games on it, generally speaking. I can see an argument the organization teaches the way it does to mitigate that. That's compelling.

I made a distinction with young players needing certain attributes because they're less smart on the ice than older ones. That can go a lot of ways but most usefully in that the Bergerons of the world not only keep moving but they very rarely move in the wrong direction. Trouba is effective for that reason, and when he's not and has to scramble back the other way you go "holy shit he's slow as hell" because he is.

Laf stands still A LOT when he's playing bad. Kakko less so. That's a very big reason Kakko is a better player at this juncture.

You're right, and puck-watching is another problem that I'm finding is team-wide.

 

[Kravtsov420]

I think the ultra shitty Garden ice really doesn't help when they play half their games on it, generally speaking. I can see an argument the organization teaches the way it does to mitigate that. That's compelling.

I made a distinction with young players needing certain attributes because they're less smart on the ice than older ones. That can go a lot of ways but most usefully in that the Bergerons of the world not only keep moving but they very rarely move in the wrong direction. Trouba is effective for that reason, and when he's not and has to scramble back the other way you go "holy shit he's slow as hell" because he is.

Laf stands still A LOT when he's playing bad. Kakko less so. That's a very big reason Kakko is a better player at this juncture.

The whole team stands still a lot, it’s one of the main issues. Combination of standing stationary and not going to the box.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Not this badly.

They were slam dunk picks and they're not even really decent in the NHL so far.

Their lack of speed never held them back at lower levels.

I don't believe Robertson is fundamentally more capable than Lafreniere and Draisaitl is a complete lummox.

You can absolutely succeed in the NHL not being a plus skater.

Adam Fox isn't a plus skater and he's an all-world defenseman in the fastest NHL ever. Patrice Bergeron isn't a plus skater and he's still the best 5v5 player in the league at 37.

Joe Pavelski honest-to-God CAN'T skate. He's 5'11". He's 38 years old. Nobody will accuse him of having "God tier" hands. 55 points in 63 games this year.

The skating is a complete copout.

I'd agree that skating is a copout.

I think the biggest issue is legitimately that aside from 4 players on the roster, no one can hit a moving target in stride without it being intercepted.
When laf/kakko and chytil are playing their best, they're being hit in stride with the puck. But watch how often kakko is forced to sit at the blue line for the puck.

The team doesn't have any real sense of system going through the neutral zone, and it's reflected in the fact that we hit the neutral zone at 0 mph. We don't hit passes when things get tight in the neutral zone, which makes us real easy prey for teams like NJ and Car.

Now I'll agree when gallant says he doesn't really have a system, but one of the things he does have, is a defensive mindset on the forwards. You don't blow the D zone until the puck is 100% in control. The problem is this leads to getting pinned real easily, because you now have the attacking D sitting on the line.
Kids who aren't defensively responsible are taught this concept, and yes its great that they should know how to play D, but if you don't let them have the option of using their hockey IQ to know when to leave the zone, we get pinned, over and over again. In alot of ways this concept is very similar to what we ran with Torts. At least AV knew that guys have to stretch the defense, he just didnt have anyone who could do it.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Hey Now! It’s going to be all right:

23

How many playoff games did it take for the New York Rangers to win the Stanley Cup in 2023.

 

[DanielBrassard]

You're right, and puck-watching is another problem that I'm finding is team-wide.

Lafreniere in particular has had a problem with gliding, especially when he has the puck that was evident even in juniors. I remember Will Scouching talking about that as one of his issues he had and that he was going to have to adjust playing in the NHL. 3 years in and it's still a problem. Among other things.

 

[bobbop]

How long does it take for a broken finger to heal?

It depends. Can be short stay or several weeks. Going on LTIR indicates It is fairly serious (10 games/24 days minimum)

 

[bleedblue94]

See Huberdeau.

God-tier season playing with Brunette
Sucks ass in CGY playing our style hockey.

Styles and gameplanning matter in this sense.

You seem to discount he was playing with a top 7 center. Barkov took care of a lot. Barkov hasn't dropped while hubs has. Hmm

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

You seem to discount he was playing with a top 7 center. Barkov took care of a lot. Barkov hasn't dropped while hubs has. Hmm

He hasn’t dropped as far and Hubes but Barkov has regressed as well.

 

[TheDirtyH]

You seem to discount he was playing with a top 7 center. Barkov took care of a lot. Barkov hasn't dropped while hubs has. Hmm

I thought he played with Bennet

 

[Shesterkybomb]

It's hilarious that we probably have constructed the best team we've had in years and while players are getting acclimated and we had some cap issues and the Miller suspension that everyone wants to pick apart every little thing about this team. I dont know that we will win anything this year but i know that given time this team has a much greater potential to win than it did a month ago. Be happy, it's gonna be a little bumpy at first but its gonna be a fun ride.

 

[bobbop]

Kreider is best deflection/tip player in the league. His hands suck. It's not the same thing.

I don't buy that every slow player has Gretzky IQ and Jagr hands.

Jacob Trouba is a poor skater, and pretty dumb, and has no hands. He's been an NHL player for ten years and a way more effective one than Lafreniere could dream of right now.

Mika Zibanedad isn't a particularly phenomenal skater and has ok hands. You're telling me Zibanejad processes the game at an all-world level? He just uses the strengths he has. So does Kreider.

If you're telling me Lafreniere and Kakko don't have enough strengths to be top six NHL forwards, I don't agree. They're just bad at things nobody in this league should be bad at, like a bunch of our players.

You’re just full of joy tonight

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

It's hilarious that we probably have constructed the best team we've had in years and while players are getting acclimated and we had some cap issues and the Miller suspension that everyone wants to pick apart every little thing about this team. I dont know that we will win anything this year but i know that given time this team has a much greater potential to win than it did a month ago. Be happy, it's gonna be a little bumpy at first but its gonna be a fun ride.

Thats some nice excuses but the team has played like a pig's ass since October. I can count the truly good performances on one hand.