Speculation: Roster Building Thread III (2021 Offseason) - “Simple Jack”, "Will over Skill", "Drury in a Hurry"?

[GAGLine]

It's not necessarily a sell-off. You just don't self-rent to squeeze into the playoffs. I would hope the guy we just hired to be GM knows that.

You are right about that, which is why the decision needs to be made now.

 

[Machinehead]

You are right about that, which is why the decision needs to be made now.

There's only one decision you can make now imo. I wouldn't sign him now, period.

 

[Fitzy]

But I think the worst outcome, and the one I'm willing to take a smaller loss to avoid, is that you extend him $7m x 8 (which would be a huge discount!) and this is what he is.

I don't 100% follow unless you mean he ends up aging like Gaborik.

Seems unlikely, but we sure struck dung with Richards and Gomez so who knows for sure.

 

[Machinehead]

Kreider and Trouba are already going to be bullshit contracts. Tack on another one and this rebuild Hindenburgs before it reaches its height.

 

[Off Sides]

If the Rangers are in playoff position they are extending Zbad, maybe Strome too.

Yet moving Zbad this summer, maybe even next deadline since they gave him a NMC in his final year is pretty complicated.

Foresight, stop with the clauses, hindsight they should have stopped with the clauses.

 

[Machinehead]

I don't 100% follow unless you mean he ends up aging like Gaborik.

Seems unlikely, but we sure struck dung with Richards and Gomez so who knows for sure.

He sucked this past year and I don't care how many points he got.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

He sucked this past year and I don't care how many points he got.

Shouldn't we hate the whole team? They all looked like they just skated around, cherry picking etc. If thats the case we need to trade the whole team lol.

 

[Off Sides]

Kreider and Trouba are already going to be bullshit contracts. Tack on another one and this rebuild Hindenburgs before it reaches its height.

Yet they already built the ship, are sailing it, and the only option that makes it not sink it to turn around which they won't do.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Shouldn't we hate the whole team? They all looked like they just skated around, cherry picking etc. If thats the case we need to trade the whole team lol.

Maybe it's time to rebuild.

 

[Machinehead]

Shouldn't we hate the whole team? They all looked like they just skated around, cherry picking etc. If thats the case we need to trade the whole team lol.

I agree and I do think coaching had something to do with it. But before I give Zibanejad 8 years, I need to know. I need to see him play with the new coach. You have to be sure. Losing him for nothing is a better outcome than another bad contract.

Yet they already built the ship, are sailing it, and the only option that makes it not sink it to turn around which they won't do.

Sounds like pre-letter mentality which led to the letter to begin with.

Unless they come out and absolutely tear it up (headed for home ice in the first round), they 100% should not be in a win-now mentality yet.

And I don't think they will be. I think we saw Dolan's name in the papers and now expect the team to go for a Cup.

 

[Fitzy]

Maybe it's time to rebuild.

Children of the corn time. Kill everyone older than 21

 

[Machinehead]

If you look at the analytics and the injury-history, there's a Staal and Girardi shaped neon sign screaming "DON'T SIGN THIS GUY!"

And we're much further from contention than we were when we did those contracts.

 

[Fitzy]

If you look at the analytics and the injury-history, there's a Staal and Girardi shaped neon sign screaming "DON'T SIGN THIS GUY!"

And we're much further from contention than we were when we did those contracts.

I think my biggest deal here is that centers are just so difficult to find, especially good ones. You've got the most talented center we've had here since Lindros, of course people aren't going to want to just trade him away.

If NYR are going to commit to the "We don't need a top center, just build a spine of 2A types" then fine, but you have to find those guys. Richards Stepan and Brassard were a good balanced combination for a competing team, but none of them were ever really PPG level players.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

If you look at the analytics and the injury-history, there's a Staal and Girardi shaped neon sign screaming "DON'T SIGN THIS GUY!"

And we're much further from contention than we were when we did those contracts.

How did Zbads analytics look the two previous seasons?

 

[Machinehead]

I think my biggest deal here is that centers are just so difficult to find, especially good ones. You've got the most talented center we've had here since Lindros, of course people aren't going to want to just trade him away.

If NYR are going to commit to the "We don't need a top center, just build a spine of 2A types" then fine, but you have to find those guys. Richards Stepan and Brassard were a good balanced combination for a competing team, but none of them were ever really PPG level players.

I get that, but I also think committing that type of money to somebody who isn't truly a Cup-winning 1C is definitely not the solution.

How did Zbads analytics look the two previous seasons?

Closer to 20-21 than to elite tbh.

The covid season was especially bad but Rangers fans have always overrated him at even strength.

I get that people want the gamebreaking 1C, but again, he either is or he isn't and throwing plywood over the pothole is worse.

The last season Zibanejad was GREAT at even strength was 17-18.

In 18-19, he was great defensively but only scored on the powerplay. In 19-20, the offense got better (obviously) but the defense tanked for McDavid. 20-21 was the worst of 18-19/19-20 put together.

Granted, all of those are Quinn years. Could a different coach bring back the beast which we've certainly seen for stretches? Don't know, but I need to see it happen before I give him a contract.

 

[Fitzy]

How did Zbads analytics look the two previous seasons?

Zibby was one of the top 5 rangers in CF% in 19-20, top 6 in 18-19 and was bottom half in the team this season.

Machine is right that the Power Play saved Mika's stats this year. At even strength he was objectively poor.

 

[Machinehead]

I don't think he's a guy that's giving you offense and defense at an elite level at the same time. Which is true of a lot of guys.

If that's the case, I have no problem just letting him do offense with Panarin on one flank and some jam on the other.

But I need two things:

1) I need consistent effort, legitimate play-driving (at least in one direction), and more than half of your goals at even strength.

2) I need the guy behind him to pick up that shutdown load, and Ryan Strome is violently not that.

 

[Machinehead]

If you don't want to shell out the years for Danault or the assets for Hertl, Paul Stastny would be a great stopgap.

He's gotten great defensively in his old age and is outstanding on faceoffs.

Yes, he's 35, but that's good. That means he signs for something reasonable and then goes away.

People underestimate the good value you can get out of signing mid-30's players. They already got paid and they're not going to sign for 5+ years because they don't have that left.

It's the players about to be mid-30's in the second half of contracts that are the bad ones.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

I don’t know if Rangers are going to go after guys who are aging like Stastny. I think they want to kind of stay the course and if they sign or trade for anyone they will also fit in with Laff, Kakko etc growing which is why I think the Eichel rumors are so strong regardless of what we think. He is 24. I also think someone like Hertl and Danault also fit

 

[Off Sides]

I agree and I do think coaching had something to do with it. But before I give Zibanejad 8 years, I need to know. I need to see him play with the new coach. You have to be sure. Losing him for nothing is a better outcome than another bad contract.

Sounds like pre-letter mentality which led to the letter to begin with.

Unless they come out and absolutely tear it up (headed for home ice in the first round), they 100% should not be in a win-now mentality yet.

And I don't think they will be. I think we saw Dolan's name in the papers and now expect the team to go for a Cup.

I have no idea what Dolan wants, yet I think from what I recall, to compete for the playoffs?

If so that may not mean he is looking for a complete team, yet he may be looking for one who makes the playoffs which ~half the teams do. Given they are not a artificially capped team is that too much to ask? Can they compete with the teams who are playoff bound or are they going to lay down?

Or maybe he is looking for the impossible, who knows. I am hoping Drury/Sather are like, this is where we are, we'll figure it out yet it may take a year or two for all that stuff we drafted to become in their prime players. We'll add the best we can within reason to show progress.

Gorton/JD, are the ones who put this team in this half ready to do stuff, half not situation where the two groups are like 8-10 year apart. It was a bad idea, there is no real fix for that now other than to add some older, ready to do stuff now, or say f-it lets keep going with youth until it's ready while we add peripheral stuff like Ronney ect. I feel they are likely going add some stuff who is ready, yet that is not necessarily a good long term plan option.

 

[Machinehead]

I have no idea what Dolan wants, yet I think from what I recall, to compete for the playoffs?

If so that may not mean he is looking for a complete team, yet he may be looking for one who makes the playoffs which ~half the teams do. Given they are not a artificially capped team is that too much to ask? Can they compete with the teams who are playoff bound or are they going to lay down?

Or maybe he is looking for the impossible, who knows. I am hoping Drury/Sather are like, this is where we are, we'll figure it out yet it may take a year or two for all that stuff we drafted to become in their prime players. We'll add the best we can within reason to show progress.

Gorton/JD, are the ones who put this team in this half ready to do stuff, half not situation where the two groups are like 8-10 year apart. It was a bad idea, there is no real fix for that now other than to add some older, ready to do stuff now, or say f-it lets keep going with youth until it's ready while we add peripheral stuff like Ronney ect. I feel they are likely going add some stuff who is ready, yet that is not necessarily a good long term plan option.

I think the firings had more to do with the specific ways Quinn handled the team and management sticking by Quinn than any sort of timeline to make the playoffs.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I have no idea what Dolan wants, yet I think from what I recall, to compete for the playoffs?

I think he wants playoff revenue.

If so that may not mean he is looking for a complete team, yet he may be looking for one who makes the playoffs which ~half the teams do. Given they are not a artificially capped team is that too much to ask? Can they compete with the teams who are playoff bound or are they going to lay down?

I think it means he's looking for a team that can get him playoff revenue.

Or maybe he is looking for the impossible,

He's looking for playoff revenue.

who knows. I am hoping Drury/Sather are like, this is where we are, we'll figure it out yet it may take a year or two for all that stuff we drafted to become in their prime players. We'll add the best we can within reason to show progress.

Gorton/JD, are the ones who put this team in this half ready to do stuff, half not situation where the two groups are like 8-10 year apart. It was a bad idea, there is no real fix for that now other than to add some older, ready to do stuff now, or say f-it lets keep going with youth until it's ready while we add peripheral stuff like Ronney ect. I feel they are likely going add some stuff who is ready, yet that is not necessarily a good long term plan option.

Next year's presumed team, given a full year, expected development and a modicum of normalcy is likely a playoff team. I think JD/G and felt that way and Drury knew better than to come out and say it. I think the playoffs next year was basically on schedule for the timeline that JD/G had. Part of that timeline coincides with guys like Rooney, PDG, and Blackwell being replaced by cheaper and younger internal candidates like Barron and possibly Richards and/or Rueschhoff comprising the fourth lines. Rooney and the like were just fillers who allowed the team the flexibility not to rush guys and bought the team some time at a point when this future was hard to see playing out. The same was true for Jack Johnson.

All this is a reason why I find the dismissal of JD/G dubious. Add in that Dolan thinks the team is ready to compete, while Drury says there is no timetable for the playoffs.

 

[Lone Ranger]

I'm thinking Mika's ask is 50 million for six years, plus an additional 100k in premium DJ equipment.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I think my biggest deal here is that centers are just so difficult to find, especially good ones. You've got the most talented center we've had here since Lindros, of course people aren't going to want to just trade him away.

If NYR are going to commit to the "We don't need a top center, just build a spine of 2A types" then fine, but you have to find those guys. Richards Stepan and Brassard were a good balanced combination for a competing team, but none of them were ever really PPG level players.

And that center depth didn't win the Rangers the cup either.

 

[jay from jersey]

I think that is what it will probably come down to, unless he is willing to bend versus what he could get on the open market to sign with the Rangers.

I'm not even sure how the Rangers would approach a Zbad trade. Like if they ask him if he's willing he then knows he is not really in their A plan, from there why would he budge on any contract negotiation should a trade fall though.

If they trade him, expect it to be with an extension in play agreed upon by both sides. Think mark stone