Speculation: Roster Building Thread II (2021 Offseason) - “You'll not see nothing like the Mighty Quinn”?

[Machinehead]

I don't think this is the game you want to be using as your example for this though.

They pushed back just as hard as they got pushed in this game. 2 years ago they would have crawled into a ball and begged for mercy.

But yeah, Trading Chytil for GRIT would be dumb.

Is there going to ever be an example of a playoff game with no physicality at all? Nine goals and all of them were pretty nice. Good enough for me.

Tampa's pushback is impressive, as it was last year, but after this board watched wins from Tom Wilson followed by the Islanders, we were dangerously teetering on "guys, talent is actually bad" territory.

 

[Ola]

I wouldn't.

I think Strome is the player on the roster most likely to be traded.

Honestly, sliding Laf over to center and trading Strome is definitely what I would do.

(Odds are that) Nobody will ever trade us that top center. It is such a valuable position in hockey. If you aren't named Pat Kane, teams are so good at taking away time and space from even the top wingers. I like what Laf does with the puck every time he gets it, the more he gets it the better. In the NHL, he will just have the puck so much more at center ice. Washington can't take away the ice from Barzal, Vegas gave very little room to Kaprizov.

He and Panarin should be able to create some magic together. And if we can get him a RW who has center experience, can take some FOs when he struggles on the dot, I can't say that it wouldn't work. Say someone like Boone Jenner or Nolan Patrick at RW with Laf at center and Panarin at LW. BJ is really good at the dot, NP has perfectly OK FO stats in the NHL.

Could either Jenner or Patrick (from Seattle) be had for Strome?

 

[Ola]

Is there going to ever be an example of a playoff game with no physicality at all? Nine goals and all of them were pretty nice. Good enough for me.

Tampa's pushback is impressive, as it was last year, but after this board watched wins from Tom Wilson followed by the Islanders, we were dangerously teetering on "guys, talent is actually bad" territory.

Yeah, and that clown John Michelletti also don't make things better. Every single time a pass is made that doesn't result in a goal, he goes out and says 'he can't give up a shot there, must shot the puck' or something like that. He is also not very likeable. A really good professional, but really, can't we do better than him? How long will we be stuck with him for? 20 more years?

 

[xsniper11x]

FLA is a perfect example of how diversifying your talent pool and improving your depth can do wonders. There’s more than enough quality bottom 6 talent out there for us to target in FA. I think we need at least 2 of:

Foligno, Coleman, Goodrow, Bonino, Kuraly, Csizikas, Nosek, Paquette, Martinook, Haula.

 

[Machinehead]

FLA is a perfect example of how diversifying your talent pool and improving your depth can do wonders. There’s more than enough quality bottom 6 talent out there for us to target in FA. I think we need at least 2 of:

Foligno, Coleman, Goodrow, Bonino, Kuraly, Csizikas, Nosek, Paquette, Martinook, Haula.

I would very much prefer guys capable of slotting up.

Paquette playing 10 minutes on the 4th line isn't going to diversify our scoring lines. Goodrow and Coleman would be my two targets.

Also, I like Vegas Haula but he's been useless since leaving Vegas.

 

[Machinehead]

Yeah, and that clown John Michelletti also don't make things better. Every single time a pass is made that doesn't result in a goal, he goes out and says 'he can't give up a shot there, must shot the puck' or something like that. He is also not very likeable. A really good professional, but really, can't we do better than him? How long will we be stuck with him for? 20 more years?

It's all about nuance.

There's a time and a place, depending on the period, the score, the opponent etc. where you just get the puck in deep. There also needs to be a time and place where we let Panarin and Lafreniere give the puck away because they were trying something crazy and not bench them over it.

 

[GAGLine]

Anyone that Seattle can acquire in the expansion draft is probably available for trade for the Rangers right now.

What I’d really like to see is if the Rangers can upgrade their 7th forward and 3rd defenseman spots on the expansion protection with a couple of timely trades. The best opportunity may be to get an experienced defenseman like Mattias Ekholm or Mark Giordano, both of whom may not be protected.

I don't know why you keep pushing the Ekholm idea.

Two ways to interpret David Poile's comments on Mattias Ekholm

“I don’t want to go into too many details,” Poile said on Monday, “but in terms of expansion, we have that covered. I’m not losing Mattias Ekholm in expansion, if that’s what you’re asking. I’ve got that covered. Again, Mattias has been a good player for us. His name got thrown out there a lot in trade baits and different things but, I mean, my next conversation with Mattias will be after this year about how he thinks he fits into the future of this hockey club and whether he would like to be here longer, not whether we want to trade him.”

For the sake of argument, let's assume this means that Ekholm will be traded rather than protected. This was the rumored cost for him when his name came up prior to the trade deadline:

When asked directly about Mattias Ekholm, David Poile was cagey about his value in trade talks. Rumors were that Poile was asking for a 1st round pick, a top prospect, and “something else” which was a high price to pay for most teams.

Is that a price you're willing to pay for a guy who might not be here more than a year? Even if the price comes down, it's still going to be a lot. He's a very good dman and would fit in well here, but he's 31 in a week and has 1 year left on his contract.

What are we giving up to get him? How much are we giving him on his next contract? How much term?

If he's only going to be here for a year, there is no price that Nashville would accept that would make sense for us.

 

[McRanger92]

FLA is a perfect example of how diversifying your talent pool and improving your depth can do wonders. There’s more than enough quality bottom 6 talent out there for us to target in FA. I think we need at least 2 of:

Foligno, Coleman, Goodrow, Bonino, Kuraly, Csizikas, Nosek, Paquette, Martinook, Haula.

Kreider - Chytil - Coleman
Barron - Nosek - Blackwell
Rooney/Geersten

Sign me up

 

[xsniper11x]

I would very much prefer guys capable of slotting up.

Paquette playing 10 minutes on the 4th line isn't going to diversify our scoring lines. Goodrow and Coleman would be my two targets.

Also, I like Vegas Haula but he's been useless since leaving Vegas.

Agreed, although we need a contingency plan as Goodrow and Coleman will be the target for a lot of teams and we might not be the attractive FA destination we’re used to being (Covid, front office circus, etc). Hopefully Drury can make a strong pitch.

Also, this is a two step process. Getting guys who can slot up is #1, but we also need to reinforce our 4th line w/ players who can grind down the opposition. So even if we can snag a Coleman or Goodrow, we will need at least 1 other guy for the 4th line.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Is there going to ever be an example of a playoff game with no physicality at all? Nine goals and all of them were pretty nice. Good enough for me.

Tampa's pushback is impressive, as it was last year, but after this board watched wins from Tom Wilson followed by the Islanders, we were dangerously teetering on "guys, talent is actually bad" territory.

Its not that talent is bad, but its as you said, there needs to be a balance.

We're tilted too heavy in one direction.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Great point.

One thing, I expected a lot of trades like this to take place before the Vegas draft. I.e. a team bound to expose a good player dealing that player for assets they wouldn't lose. But there were surprisingly few, if any, trades like this. I definitely think the GMs will be better prepared for this expansion draft, so there should be some openings.

Just going through The Athletics last mock expansion draft and there are some really interesting names worth targeting that a Buch+Strome and maybe Georgiev and a D prospect could all be pieces to facilitate.

Some options that stuck out to me:

Tyson Jost : Young former 10OA. Not going to be a scorer like that draft position would hope, but has turned into an effective bottom-six center for a really deep and talented Colorado team. More importantly, he's a really fast skater and has that stocky build along with quickness that could help us in transition in a big way. Has enough skill and vision to mix around the lineup. Likely a cheap re-sign given his lack of production.
Andreas Johnnson: Great speed, moderate price, shoot-first winger. Something like a combination of Derek Dorsett and Michael Grabner. Similarly able to mix and match up and down a lineup.
Radko Gudas: An actually effective defenseman who can really lay people out and will give the team a lot more muscle.
Cal Foote/Justin Holl/Carson Soucy: big, mobile, stable third pairing options.

Some other intriguing options could come about if Seattle would retain salary (and why wouldn't they for the quality they could get from us in Buch especially):

Brett Burns: Can you add a third team (DET? OTT?) to double split him? Brett Burns in a third pair role would have the potential to really contribute. At 2mil for four seasons with a modified NTC.
Jason Zucker: 50% retained would be two years at 2.75 for a guy who had a terrible season but has been a really effective player. Lots of speed. A shooter.

 

[Machinehead]

Its not that talent is bad, but its as you said, there needs to be a balance.

We're tilted too heavy in one direction.

At least it was an easy fix.

Get Coleman for the top 9 and Goodrow for the 4th line. Hitting is contagious.

Finding the elites is the hard part and we did that.

 

[jay from jersey]

Agreed, although we need a contingency plan as Goodrow and Coleman will be the target for a lot of teams and we might not be the attractive FA destination we’re used to being (Covid, front office circus, etc). Hopefully Drury can make a strong pitch.

Also, this is a two step process. Getting guys who can slot up is #1, but we also need to reinforce our 4th line w/ players who can grind down the opposition. So even if we can snag a Coleman or Goodrow, we will need at least 1 other guy for the 4th line.

If they aren’t going to use free agency they are going to have to overpay for a Lawson Crouse, Trent Frederic, Andrew Copp type guy. Bad news is most people would originally hate the trade, good news is you don’t have to break the bank to acquire a guy like that. Like I said, if we’re not signing them in free agency and not drafting them they have to come from somewhere. We might be able to get lucky on a college free agent maybe something like that but with the known talent on the roster they are going to want a proven commodity rather then an unknown. It would be great to draft some guys like that too, but they are probably going to be more then a year away. Pekar in buffalo is another guy I would look into

 

[ETTER DE]

Ever notice that some people who can't back up their opinions are forced into irrelevant tangents?

I prefer The Bobs.

Go to Youtube. Search Bob Dylan funny interview. Watch from 4:30

 

[Machinehead]

Agreed, although we need a contingency plan as Goodrow and Coleman will be the target for a lot of teams and we might not be the attractive FA destination we’re used to being (Covid, front office circus, etc). Hopefully Drury can make a strong pitch.

Also, this is a two step process. Getting guys who can slot up is #1, but we also need to reinforce our 4th line w/ players who can grind down the opposition. So even if we can snag a Coleman or Goodrow, we will need at least 1 other guy for the 4th line.

I'm fine with just using Rooney, Gauthier, and Blackwell. Rooney and Gauthier had very strong analytics in regards to forechecking. Blackwell is versatile and capable of scoring points.

I would be in favor of adding another body, but it's probably somebody you wouldn't even think of. And that's because 4th liners have very little variance between each other (due to TOI) and cheaper is better unless it's somebody AWFUL. I'd rather pull somebody out of the bargain bin than give Reaves or Martinook multiple years to do the same thing or ultimately, not much more.

 

[Machinehead]

Here's an unpopular one:

Physical as all hell, still a great defender, renowned for being a great guy in the room, and could still score 10 goals. He might even be cheap because of how much he's declined. You have to keep in mind that a declining Wayne Simmonds is still better than most 4th liners ever are.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Yeah, this is tricky for sure Kravy made a really good push late. Buch is honestly getting better all the time. I mean honestly, if Buch keeps getting better every season, what is stopping him from like reaching Mark Stone territory?

Kakko and Laf must play.

How do you add that rugged element that we must add, if there is no room on the roster for it?

bottom six is really the only logical solution to add that because talent needs to play

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

I want Goodrow and Nosek. Those two would really add what we need and neither should be expensive.

 

[Machinehead]

I would trade Strome and Buchnevich and then do something like this:

Panarin-Zibanejad-Goodrow
Lafreniere-Danault-Kakko
Kreider-Chytil-Kravtsov
Simmonds-Rooney-Gauthier/Blackwell

And that's not even factoring in what Buchnevich or Strome return. Which, tbh, I would be fine doing for futures. We could use the cap space.

I would f*** with that.

I really like Coleman, but now that I think about it, he'll be more expensive than Goodrow and is he any better? Probably not.

 

[Peltz]

As far as moving wingers I would much prefer moving Kreider instead of Buchnevich. Pavel had a really, really good year. Only 8 of his 48 points on the power play. He produced even when his center Mika wasn’t and became an excellent penalty killer.

Chris OTOH was even more inconsistent than usual. There’s no denying that his net front presence on the power play makes it more dangerous but 14 power play points were about half of his 30 point total production. Lafreniere IMO is ready to replace him now as a top 6 player.

Moving Kreider’s cap also opens up the possibility of keeping our 1/2 centers at least for the time being.

I think you have to move at least one of them this summer. I'm also hoping it's Kreider but I have a feeling it's not going to be realistic.

 

[Machinehead]

Also, it's harder to speculate on trade returns, but that's something I would explore before free agency. High-profile jam is almost always cost-ineffective. Trade for a guy who's not getting his big contact yet.

Except for Danault. I would give Danault what he wants yesterday. You could easily cover his salary moving things we don't need and he was tailor-made for what this team lacks.

Factoring in team needs, no cap no kizzy, I would rather have Danault than Eichel.

 

[Calad]

@Edge Id venture to guess the deadline deal that fell through was a Sam Bennett trade, considering theres been lots of smoke between rangers and calgary for bennett and other players, and sather saw what he brought to florida immediately and that contributed to gorton's downfall. Am I far off the mark here?

 

[pld459666]

I hate to break it to you but if you traded for Fox & drafted Lafreniere and Kakko to be grinders you're going to be disappointed.

Again, my stance is that one way is no way at all. Sometimes we're going to have to be finesse sometimes we're going to have to grind it out, out work, out hustle, bang in garbage rebounds.

But these are talented kids and if we're going to win with them, we better see that talent come out.

No one is saying trade talent for grinders, but if they have all of this talent and prefer to play on the perimeter, then we are going to continue to see pretty hockey in the Reg. Season and watch other teams play meaningful hockey in the Playoffs.

At some point, sooner rather than later, we are going to need commitment beyond Kreider on the PP, from a larger majority of our forward group to get bodies to the front of the net.

As currently constructed, this team is easy to defend against

 

[SA16]

No one is saying trade talent for grinders, but if they have all of this talent and prefer to play on the perimeter, then we are going to continue to see pretty hockey in the Reg. Season and watch other teams play meaningful hockey in the Playoffs.

At some point, sooner rather than later, we are going to need commitment beyond Kreider on the PP, from a larger majority of our forward group to get bodies to the front of the net.

As currently constructed, this team is easy to defend against

Why do we need to change anything on the PP when we had the #4 PP in the league since 3/13 (When Mika started scoring again)?

These PP complaints going on for 2 years now have been weird. The Rangers had a top PP last year and the same thing the year before once they went to, oddly enough, Strome on PP1.

 

[Machinehead]

Why do we need to change anything on the PP when we had the #4 PP in the league since 3/13 (When Mika started scoring again)?

These PP complaints going on for 2 years now have been weird. The Rangers had a top PP last year and the same thing the year before once they went to, oddly enough, Strome on PP1.

The PP is just a thing people complain about. There doesn't need to be a reason. It could be 33% and you would still see it.

And honestly, it's the same thing with toughness. I'm not saying ignore that element entirely but for some, the concept of toughness they want has never existed in the NHL.