Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20: Part XXVII

[The Crypto Guy]

I think that the chances are much greater that Fox/Lundkvist/DeAngelo stay on their side rather than become a top pairing d-man on their off side. In fact, I see almost no scenario where all three are here for when the team becomes are serious playoff contender.

Miller may or may not turn into one. But that will also not be in 2-3 years. Investing in Miller is investing in a long term process.

I believe that Trouba's partner will be found outside the organization. With very likely that someone like Lundqvist will be included as a part of the package to get him.

Maybe, but again I don't think that is anymore soon, at least not until we are ready to contend. So trading for Lindholm now when we aren't in the window and will lose him likely when we get there again doesn't really make any sense, to me at least.

 

[Avery16]

By even suggesting it as a possibility.

That is the very definition of being hyperbolic.

 

[Savant]

It wouldn’t be an ejector seat. It would be tactical. We didn’t trade Stepan because he sucked.

It is 100% an ejector seat and it 1000% would be perceived that way. After trading most that a 1st, and giving a guy 64 million, it would be an admission of failure from Gorton too. Puts his job on the line.

 

[Savant]

L

So this seems to be similar to the Karlsson vs Trouba debate a bit. Obviously Lindholm has 2 years left on his deal before he hits UFA so it's a bit different but Nurse is 25 and a RFA this year. He may be looking for $8m but my guess is he comes in closer to $6.5-7m on a long term deal, say 6-7 years. Lindholm makes $5.2m for the next couple of years but then becomes a UFA at age 29. So his next contract would probably be 7 years @ say $8.5m per season (cap going up).

So the net overall effect maybe Nurse from age 26-33 @ $7m per season vs Lindholm for 2 years @ $5.2m and then HOPING he signs for 7 years @ $8.5m from 29-36.

Basically what I am trying to show is that we get closer to the declining years for most players by acquiring Lindholm and are more likely to be paying him on the back-side of his career for what he has done rather than what he will do.

When taking contracts into account I'd prefer Nurse from 25-33 probably.

Lindholm has shown he is a 1D. Nurse really hasn’t. Would be curious to see fancy stats. I think Lindholm’s game will age really well too. These Swedish dmen, something in the water

I’m not trading prime assets to hope Nurse is that guy. Rangers need stability

 

[Avery16]

It is 100% an ejector seat and it 1000% would be perceived that way. After trading most that a 1st, and giving a guy 64 million, it would be an admission of failure from Gorton too. Puts his job on the line.

Trading for someone isn’t getting married to them. You always should be looking for ways to improve your overall roster. If you can do that by flipping someone you recently acquired, great.

Gortons job isn’t and wouldn’t be in jeopardy. That’s laughable.

 

[Savant]

Trading for someone isn’t getting married to them. You always should be looking for ways to improve your overall roster. If you can do that by flipping someone you recently acquired, great.

An 8 year contact lasts longer than most marriages and Gorton signature is on that deal. The ink may not even by dry on it yet. It’s not the same situation as Stepan at all

 

[NYR Viper]

L

Lindholm has shown he is a 1D. Nurse really hasn’t. Would be curious to see fancy stats. I think Lindholm’s game will age really well too. These Swedish dmen, something in the water

That's fair, although Nurse is pretty much Edmonton's de facto #1. Also Lindholm has a track record of injuries

2016-2017
66 games played

2017-2018
69 games played

2018-2019
76 games played

2019-2020
He has already missed 8 games this season

 

[Trxjw]

If Anaheim is listening on everyone I'd be kicking the tires on Nick Ritchie. I think he's poised to take a decent step forward next year.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I'm not comfortable trading whatever the Ducks would want for Lindholm, and have to give him a raise in 2 years

If the team was going to trade for a LD, it would have to be someone who is eligible for a new deal like immediately so they can be locked up, or a guy who's already signed for the next 4-6 years

I'm fine with them pushing off the decision to find a top pairing LD for a bit though. I'd like to get an idea of what our prospects look like. Mainly Miller, Roberston, Rykov and Reunanen

 

[Edge]

Do you see any world in which Trouba, Tony, Fox, and Lundkvist are on the team together for the somewhat long haul? If not, do you think it's gonna be Lundkvist that is traded?

I'd say the odds are very low. There's just too many factors at play --- including size, handedness and diversity of style.

It's too early to say who would go, but Lundkvist is a strong candidate because he would a core piece teams covet in a package if they are moving an established player. He's attractive in those types of deals because he'd be cheap and he'd have upside --- which is exactly what a team's looking for if they find themselves going in a direction that requires moving an established, prime piece.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Vince has been annoying lately. Also does he know how to Twitter? Why does he retweet each of his own articles multiple times?

Standard practice for columnists (and bloggers), actually. ICYMI, without saying ICYMI.

 

[Avery16]

An 8 year contact lasts longer than most marriages and Gorton signature is on that deal. The ink may not even by dry on it yet. It’s not the same situation as Stepan at all

If we ended up with a player that helped our org out more, why would it affect Gorton’s job approval? I’m confused- who is firing Gorton? Trouba? The NHLPA? ...fans?

 

[Savant]

That's fair, although Nurse is pretty much Edmonton's de facto #1. Also Lindholm has a track record of injuries

2016-2017
66 games played

2017-2018
69 games played

2018-2019
76 games played

2019-2020
He has already missed 8 games this season

Don’t think he has had anything major though.

 

[Edge]

@Edge mentioned that the Rangers like Nurse, which is why his name keeps coming up

Rangers like Nurse and his next contract raises uncertainty in Edmonton.

But that same contract would be difficult if the Rangers also add large salaries to their roster (Kreider, ADA, etc.).

 

[Savant]

If we ended up with a player that helped our org out more, why would it affect Gorton’s job approval? I’m confused- who is firing Gorton? Trouba? The NHLPA? ...fans?

John Davidson.

For wasting organizational assets and the dealing that player for net negative.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

The optics on trading Trouba now would be bad, in addition to it being a dumb idea

Gorton can see what's out there if he likes, but there's a zero % chance Trouba is moved. And then his NMC kicks in during the summer and everyone can shut the f*** up about it

 

[Avery16]

John Davidson.

Why would John Davidson fire Gorton for making the team more competitive?

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

It wouldn’t be an ejector seat. It would be tactical. We didn’t trade Stepan because he sucked.

Stepan was the Rangers' own player whom the team signed to a contract to keep him rather than letting him go. Also, there was a changing of the guard at the top within the org from when he was signed to when he was traded.

When was the last time a team acquired a guy, signed him long term – and then traded him 6 months later (and just before his NMC kicks in)?

Genuinely curious if this has ever happened in the NHL.

 

[Avery16]

The optics on trading Trouba now would be bad, in addition to it being a dumb idea

Gorton can see what's out there if he likes, but there's a zero % chance Trouba is moved. And then his NMC kicks in during the summer and everyone can shut the **** up about it

Agreed that moving Trouba is a dead issue come July. However, players being unmoveable has never stopped this thread from speculating for pages on end.

 

[True Blue]

**** em. You don’t win Cups by holding everyone’s hand.

You understand that you are doing nothing but wishcasting?

Trouba is NOT getting traded. Gorton wanted him, traded him and he has largely played fine. In fact, he has played largely the same way he did with the Jets. What's the difference? Look at the supporting cast.

In a few years, Trouba's contract will look very much on par with the market. And, as this supporting cast improves and he takes more steps forward (he is only 25), chances are so too will his performance. When seen from that respective and in the time frame, chances are he will be seen as outperforming his contract.

 

[mas0764]

I get the logic of "we should explore trading Trouba."

It's not an indictment of Trouba. No one is saying he sucks or that he's even not worth the contract. It's simple math, that the Rangers have a few too many RDs and some of them will have to be moved. Ironically, if we rule out Trouba, and then people suggest trading DeAngelo, we have to hear "Why do people want to trade DeAngelo? We've been looking for this kind of defenseman for forever." Well, someone has to be moved and I don't think people like the idea of trading Fox.

But the simple fact is, we just bought Trouba and committed to him. My own personal feelings on Trouba were, pre-trade, we should probably stay away because he's not a true #1 and he'll be highly paid, but when we made the deal (just a first and Pionk), I changed my tune because the value was just too good, we gave up almost nothing that would end up better than Trouba. And getting Trouba hedged our bets for the young D developing.

But here we are not a year later and Fox is excelling, DeAngelo cleaned up his act and exploded, and Lundkvist is really developing as well. We have tons of defensive talent in spades. Someone is gonna have to go. So I get the thinking, "Why not trade the older guy who makes more money and still isn't a #1?"

I get it. It might be the best move from an asset-management standpoint. Especially if you can get back more than you gave up for him. The trade is then a net positive for you, plus you free up space to sign DeAngelo, plus you clear a roster block for Lundkvist to eventually join the team.

But it's not gonna happen. It would be bad optics and the franchise can probably damage their reputation among free agents. What, I'm gonna sign there, they'll give me a NTC, and then flip me 6 months later before it kicks in? Not good for business.

The fact is the Rangers PROBABLY should have had a little more patience before jumping on Trouba, and frankly, if they knew they could have gotten Panarin at the time, I'm not so sure they chase Trouba. But I also don't think they knew at that time that they were front-runners for Panarin in Panarin's mind.

So anyway, Trouba is here and he's not going anywhere. And I won't even say we are "stuck" with him, because he's still a positive for us. But it just means that someone else is probably gonna have to go, either DeAngelo, Fox, or Lundkvist. Unless someone can play the left side.

And even then, someone is gonna have to go because Miller, Rykov, and Hajek all play that side.

 

[Avery16]

Stepan was the Rangers' own player whom the team signed to a contract to keep him rather than letting him go. Also, there was a changing of the guard at the top within the org from when he was signed to when he was traded.

When was the last time a team acquired a guy, signed him long term – and then traded him 6 months later (and just before his NMC kicks in)?

Genuinely curious if this has ever happened in the NHL.

I’m not saying it has, I didn’t say it would. I didn’t say it should. I said that Brooks is right that it should be explored.

 

[GAGLine]

Why would John Davidson fire Gorton for making the team more competitive?

What is this mythical scenario under which we trade Trouba and thereby make the team better?

 

[True Blue]

Maybe, but again I don't think that is anymore soon, at least not until we are ready to contend. So trading for Lindholm now when we aren't in the window and will lose him likely when we get there again doesn't really make any sense, to me at least.

Oh, did I miss something? I am in no way advocating making that move right now. And certainly not for Lindholm. I believe that Trouba's partner will not arrive here until two years from now.

Lots of things are also predicated on what happens to Skjei

 

[Avery16]

You understand that you are doing nothing but wishcasting?

Trouba is NOT getting traded. Gorton wanted him, traded him and he has largely played fine. In fact, he has played largely the same way he did with the Jets. What's the difference? Look at the supporting cast.

In a few years, Trouba's contract will look very much on par with the market. And, as this supporting cast improves and he takes more steps forward (he is only 25), chances are so too will his performance. When seen from that respective and in the time frame, chances are he will be seen as outperforming his contract.

I’m not wishcasting, I don’t have a wish.