Roster Building/Team Building/Future Trade/Drafting thread.

[SprDaVE]

Adding Sam Bennett wouldn't just be a one man plug and play strategy. I think you would have to add a couple of running mates for him, like a Brad Marchand maybe, like a Tanner Jeannot maybe and build a little club pack of assholes, give Scott Laughton different marching orders and top 6 time. Maybe Max Domi is more empowered to play a snot based game, maybe Matthew Knies is drawn into the battle more. The whole emotional temperature and physicality of the team will have to change a lot.

That's probably the goal of Treliving. A little more energy and physicality through the lines. But it's always something you have to keep in balance because you still want some skill and puck possession through your lines. Puck possession, cycling and offensive zone time helps so much with making things easier all around.

 

[Americanadian]

I'd much rather focus on a long-term deal for Knies and have someone that can be on a potential great deal towards the 2nd half of that deal. I don't want another top dollar deal in 3 years if he explodes into a 40 goal power forward, which is pretty likely. Maybe that means they don't sign a ~2-3M player this off-season but so be it.

If the Leafs have to pay Knies as a 40 goal man in 3 years then they can do that. Matthews could be gone anyway, and if he isn’t he’ll definitely be declining. A 3 year bridge is perfect if you can save 3M for those 3 years because you can maximize the last years of Matthews and Nylander’s 20s.

 

[Stephen]

That's probably the goal of Treliving. A little more energy and physicality through the lines. But it's always something you have to keep in balance because you still want some skill and puck possession through your lines. Puck possession, cycling and offensive zone time helps so much with making things easier all around.

It's a balance for sure.

I would probably see if we could add a Boeser and have some finesse to go with the brawn, but the brawn can't be just one guy. I think we clear out some of the low personality, jack of all trades types like at least one of Jarnkrok or Kampf.

On D, we need more skill and speed to feed the transition game.

 

[SprDaVE]

If the Leafs have to pay Knies as a 40 goal man in 3 years then they can do that. Matthews could be gone anyway, and if he isn’t he’ll definitely be declining. A 3 year bridge is perfect if you can save 3M for those 3 years because you can maximize the last years of Matthews and Nylander’s 20s.

I'd rather focus on the 8 year long-term deal now and have pretty significant savings down the line as opposed to now. In 3 years Matthews could also still be here looking for another top end deal. He could be gone. But all I know is that we'll have Knies locked up and a huge part of this team moving forward. I'd much rather focus on that and not overpay for some 3rd or 4th liner. In 3 years if things work out, Knies could be a 10M+ player...

If the Leafs over the years had focused on 8 year deals as opposed to bridge or shorter term deals, we'd have a lot less top end deals.

 

[MarMarSab3]

It's a balance for sure.

I would probably see if we could add a Boeser and have some finesse to go with the brawn, but the brawn can't be just one guy. I think we clear out some of the low personality, jack of all trades types like at least one of Jarnkrok or Kampf.

On D, we need more skill and speed to feed the transition game.

Ryan Lindgren would be nice

 

[Americanadian]

I'd rather focus on the 8 year long-term deal now and have pretty significant savings down the line as opposed to now. In 3 years Matthews could also still be here looking for another top end deal. He could be gone. But all I know is that we'll have Knies locked up and a huge part of this team moving forward. I'd much rather focus on that and not overpay for some 3rd or 4th liner. In 3 years if things work out, Knies could be an 11M player...

If the difference is 6Mx3 or 9Mx8 are you jumping at 9x8? That 3M could help the Leafs significantly over the next 3 years. Having Knies long-term is great but the Leafs future is bleak. He’ll be playing here on his own or with a declining Matthews or declining Bennett. His cap hit won’t matter when the Leafs are in a rebuild.

If the Leafs over the years had focused on 8 year deals as opposed to bridge or shorter term deals, we'd have a lot less top end deals.

They absolutely should have focused on 8 year deals. The difference is they had a 8 year window when Matthews/Marner/Nylander were up. Their window is likely 3 years now.

 

[SprDaVE]

If the difference is 6Mx3 or 9Mx8 are you jumping at 9x8? That 3M could help the Leafs significantly over the next 3 years. Having Knies long-term is great but the Leafs future is bleak. He’ll be playing here on his own or with a declining Matthews or declining Bennett. His cap hit won’t matter when the Leafs are in a rebuild.

They absolutely should have focused on 8 year deals. The difference is they had a 8 year window when Matthews/Marner/Nylander were up. Their window is likely 3 years now.

Why would it be 9M for 8 years? It's at most 8M and that's the absolutely highest it needs to be with all relative comparisons based on his production. And yes I would far rather sign him to 8 years at a higher price than any other price that is short-term because you'll be paying a lot more after that time anyway.

Even if the window closes in 3 years it changes nothing. Give him his term, save yourself some issues down the line. If things change in 3 years, he'll still be someone you can trade for a huge return or whatever. The downsides of this are so minimal to me.

This team isn't cash strapped. They have well over 20M to fill out their roster. Get creative, get busy and get your dogs signed long-term.

 

[Americanadian]

Why would it be 9M for 8 years? It's at most 8M and that's the absolutely highest it needs to be with all relative comparisons based on his production. And yes I would far rather sign him to 8 years at a higher price than any other price that is short-term because you'll be paying a ton more after that time anyway.

Even if the window closes in 3 years it changes nothing. Give him his term, save yourself some issues down the line. If things change in 3 years, he'll still be someone you can trade for a huge return or whatever. The downsides of this are so minimal to me.

This team isn't cash strapped. They have well over 20M to fill out their roster. Get creative, get busy and get your dogs signed long-term.

I truly believe it will be 9M for 8 years. Comparables don’t matter to this team. All the reporting is that the Leafs are willing to go 8 and the player is willing to go 8 but they can’t get close on a number. Even if it’s less - what do you think the gap between a 3 year bridge or 8 year deal is? 3M? 2M?

The downside is you literally lose significant cap space during the end of your contention window.

The downside is also him signing a huge ticket at ~9M and not becoming a 9M player. I’m a believer in the player though.

 

[SprDaVE]

I truly believe it will be 9M for 8 years. Comparables don’t matter to this team. All the reporting is that the Leafs are willing to go 8 and the player is willing to go 8 but they can’t get close on a number. Even if it’s less - what do you think the gap between a 3 year bridge or 8 year deal is? 3M? 2M?

The downside is you literally lose significant cap space during the end of your contention window.

I'd much rather focus on the part where he's going to keep growing into a great player and in 2 or 3 years his next cap hit will be an issue. It rarely ever works out great. I dunno how good or bad this team will be. If they have to settle for a bridge deal because they can't agree to a long-term deal, then I think it's a failure on several accounts but so be it.

 

[Americanadian]

I'd much rather focus on the part where he's going to keep growing into a great player and in 2 or 3 years his next cap hit will be an issue. I dunno how good or bad this team will be. If they have to settle for a bridge deal because they can't agree to a long-term deal, then I think it's a failure on several accounts but so be it.

Matthews will be 31 and Nylander will be 32 to start the season in question. Knies could be making 20M, it won’t matter because the Leafs will likely be at the start of a rebuild. The next 3 years matter significantly more than the 5 after that. The Leafs don’t even have a 1st until 2028.

Unless Tre makes some big trades (Matthews/Nylander) and somehow extends the Leafs window for 8 more years.

 

[SprDaVE]

Matthews will be 31 and Nylander will be 32 to start the season in question. Knies could be making 20M, it won’t matter because the Leafs will likely be at the start of a rebuild. The next 3 years matter significantly more than the 5 after that. The Leafs don’t even have a 1st until 2028.

Unless Tre makes some big trades (Matthews/Nylander) and somehow extends the Leafs window for 8 more years.

Maybe the Leafs win a cup or two? Maybe Matthews will be a 70 goal scorer each of the next 3 years? I dunno man. All I know is that right now, we have a good opportunity to give a player projecting to become a great player and to be on a great deal for the future, as opposed to doing this again in 3 years and again having someone paid at the highest of their echelon and we'll have the same tired discussion. The majority of teams have no issues signing these players long-term. It's tiresome and awful.

 

[ULF_55]

I'd much rather focus on the part where he's going to keep growing into a great player and in 2 or 3 years his next cap hit will be an issue. It rarely ever works out great. I dunno how good or bad this team will be. If they have to settle for a bridge deal because they can't agree to a long-term deal, then I think it's a failure on several accounts but so be it.

Yeah, be nice to know he's committed to the team.

8 * $8.5mm

3*$6mm + 5*$10mm

And then everyone hopes he isn't a mirage.

 

[Dreakmur]

Ryan Lindgren would be nice

Why?

We don’t need to add a shot-blocker who handles the puck like it’s a curling stone.

 

[MajorLeaf]

Looking at this roster, I did some tweaking with Marner and Tavares gone.

Trading Jarnkrok and Kampf for low picks.

Signing Patrick Kane would allow Cowan to develop for another year and Matthews can have an American buddy on his line with the loss of Marner.

Signing Pius Suter will provide some offence on the second line as Tavares doesn’t elevate in the playoffs and Leafs need to move on from the core.

Signing Reilly Smith on third line would give balanced offence throughout 3 lines and he is a good 200 foot player thst can PK. Plus he knows how to win a Stanley Cup, same with Kane.

Signing Gaudette would be good for fourth line as he provides solid defence with some offence.

Left the defence as is because don’t see Reilly being traded based on cap hit and NMC. Also, other defensemen were decent.

Projected Cap Hit
$87,840,999

Projected Cap Space
$7,659,001

 

[Dreakmur]

Looking at this roster, I did some tweaking with Marner and Tavares gone.

Trading Jarnkrok and Kampf for low picks.

Signing Patrick Kane would allow Cowan to develop for another year and Matthews can have an American buddy on his line with the loss of Marner.

Signing Pius Suter will provide some offence on the second line as Tavares doesn’t elevate in the playoffs and Leafs need to move on from the core.

Signing Reilly Smith on third line would give balanced offence throughout 3 lines and he is a good 200 foot player thst can PK. Plus he knows how to win a Stanley Cup, same with Kane.

Signing Gaudette would be good for fourth line as he provides solid defence with some offence.

Left the defence as is because don’t see Reilly being traded based on cap hit and NMC. Also, other defensemen were decent.

Projected Cap Hit
$87,840,999

Projected Cap Space
$7,659,001

View attachment 1044820

Is that forward group even softer than last year?

If that’s our team next year, we may as well pack up and just rebuild.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

I wonder what it would take to pry Josh Doan away from Utah, maybe in a package that included McBain.

He's a big (6'2" 198lb), two-way, power forward with skill and compete. Would look great on the right flank of an all Arizona line with Knies and Matthews. He's under team control for 4 more years, and we have his dad in the organization. He had 11 goals and 26 points in 28 AHL games last year.

 

[Americanadian]

Maybe the Leafs win a cup or two? Maybe Matthews will be a 70 goal scorer each of the next 3 years? I dunno man. All I know is that right now, we have a good opportunity to give a player projecting to become a great player and to be on a great deal for the future, as opposed to doing this again in 3 years and again having someone paid at the highest of their echelon and we'll have the same tired discussion. The majority of teams have no issues signing these players long-term. It's tiresome and awful.

This is a rare case where logic supports a bridge though. Your argument is based in emotion. As you mentioned - maybe Matthews scores 70 goals each of the next 3 seasons. That is the exact reason you want to have Knies as cheap as possible over that time frame. Saving 3M on the same player over that time frame makes the team more likely to compete for a cup.

I know I keep repeating the same argument but your counter arguments clearly articulate that you don't understand what I'm saying.

 

[Malachi Crunch]

 

[leafsfan2point0]

Why though… that makes no sense. It’s easier to just bury them.

 

[Americanadian]

Why though… that makes no sense. It’s easier to just bury them.

Exactly. A buyout on Kampf costs 1.68M against the cap the next 2 seasons. Burying him costs 1.25M against the cap the next 2 seasons.

A buyout on Jarnkrok costs 1.58M against the cap next season. Burying him costs 950k against the cap.

A buyout on either player is illogical.

It is funny that even Kampf and Jarnkrok (signed by two different GMs) get enough signing bonus money to make their contracts essentially buyout proof.

 

[SprDaVE]

This is a rare case where logic supports a bridge though. Your argument is based in emotion. As you mentioned - maybe Matthews scores 70 goals each of the next 3 seasons. That is the exact reason you want to have Knies as cheap as possible over that time frame. Saving 3M on the same player over that time frame makes the team more likely to compete for a cup.

I know I keep repeating the same argument but your counter arguments clearly articulate that you don't understand what I'm saying.

I understand completely the argument of a bridge, cheaper now more players now. I just think it's wrong and puts the wrong focus on it. Treliving needs to do better if that's all he can do. Emotion has nothing to do with it. The circle is fully complete.

I don't think Friedman did his research here. I just think the Leafs are open to making a lot of changes and he took that a step further. There are no contracts that require any buyouts... the only one that kind of fits is Rielly.

Unless Treliving is so allergic to making trades or something?

 

[SprDaVE]

I wonder what it would take to pry Josh Doan away from Utah, maybe in a package that included McBain.

He's a big (6'2" 198lb), two-way, power forward with skill and compete. Would look great on the right flank of an all Arizona line with Knies and Matthews. He's under team control for 4 more years, and we have his dad in the organization. He had 11 goals and 26 points in 28 AHL games last year.

Probably the reasons you listed are the reasons why it's unlikely. I'm sure they'd love to add top end talent and they'd be aggressive to do so but we don't have much to offer there that is realistic.

 

[Fogelhund]

I don't think we'll have a need to buyout players. Given what the cap is jumping, most players will be moveable, even if the return is basically nothing. Guys like Jarnkrok, Kampf etc... will still be better than what is left on July 7th, and there certainly will be a shortage of C's...

 

[Americanadian]

I understand completely the argument of a bridge. I just think it's wrong and Treliving needs to do better if that's all he can do. Emotion has nothing to do with it. The circle is fully complete.

Would Tre not be better to maximize the current roster while Matthews and Nylander are in their prime?

• They have no 1st round picks for 3 years
• They have 1 prospect with a real chance to be a impact NHLer
• They have a D corps with an average age of 31 next season (if Benoit is even playing, which seems unlikely based on reporting)
• Knies is the only roster player under 26
• They have the best goalie (by sv%) in the league on a sweetheart contract
• Matthews and Nylander will both be in their 30s in 3 years

I just don't see any logic in foregoing savings over the next 3 seasons in favor of savings for seasons 4-8.

Not to mention - if he does sign 8 years he will come up as a UFA at 30 and will be looking to be signed until he's 38. If you do a 3+8 he's a UFA at 33 and you can just walk away knowing you had an amazing player for the prime of his career and he won't be a boat anchor as they try to contend again 10-15 years from now.

 

[Americanadian]

I wonder what it would take to pry Josh Doan away from Utah, maybe in a package that included McBain.

He's a big (6'2" 198lb), two-way, power forward with skill and compete. Would look great on the right flank of an all Arizona line with Knies and Matthews. He's under team control for 4 more years, and we have his dad in the organization. He had 11 goals and 26 points in 28 AHL games last year.

Hypothetically: If he comes up to the Leafs and plays on a line with his Knies (his childhood friend) and Matthews and scores 20G/30A. When he's up for his next contract - which side of the table does his Dad sit on? How does Treliving prevent bias from creeping into that contract negotiation?

Hypothetically, given the production mentioned above: Let's say Buffalo is bad once again next season and now Tage Thompson wants out. Tre calls Buffalo and they say "we want a package surrounding Doan for Tage". Does his Dad stay quiet or will Shane vouch for keeping him because it's a better environment for his son?