Roster Building/Team Building/Future Trade/Drafting thread.

[SprDaVE]

Would Tre not be better to maximize the current roster while Matthews and Nylander are in their prime?

• They have no 1st round picks for 3 years
• They have 1 prospect with a real chance to be a impact NHLer
• They have a D corps with an average age of 31 next season (if Benoit is even playing, which seems unlikely based on reporting)
• Knies is the only roster player under 26
• They have the best goalie (by sv%) in the league on a sweetheart contract
• Matthews and Nylander will both be in their 30s in 3 years

I just don't see any logic in foregoing savings over the next 3 seasons in favor of savings for seasons 4-8.

I'm not sure any of this matters. Their window is open as long as the GM does his job to keep building and to keep adding. Matthews and Nylander could be here until they are 40 years old. Are they unable to trade and move on from the older players? This team will look vastly different in 3 years in some fashion. Are they not able to make any shift in the next 3-5 years? I completely understand the logic of a bridge deal that it's about saving now and giving yourself a likely huge headache later.

I dunno how many times we can agree to disagree on this fundamental difference. I just think it's a better smarter bet to go long-term and save yourself the headache later like the majority of teams do because they understand that. That's it. That's all.

 

[Americanadian]

I'm not sure any of this matters. Their window is open as long as the GM does his job to keep building and to keep adding. Matthews and Nylander could be here until they are 40 years old. Are they unable to trade and move on from the older players? This team will look vastly different in 3 years in some fashion. Are they not able to make any shift in the next 3-5 years? I completely understand the logic of a bridge deal that it's about saving now and giving yourself a likely huge headache later.

They don't have the picks or prospects or tradeable assets to make a shift in the next 3-5 years. Unless McDavid comes, which would be a UFA, which you would want that extra 3M next summer to make it work.

I dunno how many times we can agree to disagree on this fundamental difference. I just think it's a better smarter bet to go long-term and save yourself the headache later like the majority of teams do because they understand that. That's it. That's all.

Completely agree here. It's interesting to look back at the summer of 2019 when Marner signed. Marner and Point were seen as equals. One took a bridge and one took a medium term deal. Tkachuk was right behind them and he also took a bridge.

 

[MajorLeaf]

Is that forward group even softer than last year?

If that’s our team next year, we may as well pack up and just rebuild.

What’s the Leafs options?

The team doesn’t have much trading chips unless it’s Florida’s second round pick, Cowan , Matthews and Nylander.

The rest of the team like Reilly would be difficult to move, same with Domi, Jarnkrok and Kampf.

The Leafs should not be signing Bennett for 7 years as he is 29 and will be 36 years old when his deal expires. The UFA crop this off-season is weak and a lot of teams have more cap space to go after the better free agents. Leafs should not overpay for this crop.

The window to compete is 3 years when Matthews will hit free agency and Leafs will most likely move on or trade him on final year as I don’t see them re-signing him in his 30’s for a long-term deal.

It seems like the compete window has closed after 9 years trying to win and the Leafs spent most of the futures for any viable trade options.

 

[Americanadian]

What’s the Leafs options?

The team doesn’t have much trading chips unless it’s Florida’s second round pick, Cowan , Matthews and Nylander.

The rest of the team like Reilly would be difficult to move, same with Domi, Jarnkrok and Kampf.

The Leafs should not be signing Bennett for 7 years as he is 29 and will be 36 years old when his deal expires. The UFA crop this off-season is weak and a lot of teams have more cap space to go after the better free agents. Leafs should not overpay for this crop.

The window to compete is 3 years when Matthews will hit free agency and Leafs will most likely move on or trade him on final year as I don’t see them re-signing him in his 30’s for a long-term deal.

It seems like the compete window has closed after 9 years trying to win and the Leafs spent most of the futures for any viable trade options.

This whole post basically outlines the argument for signing Sam Bennett.

To your point - they have no tradeable assets and likely only three years left with Matthews. Is Bennett the best use of 8-9M for the next 3 seasons? Given the FA crop the answer is likely yes.

 

[SprDaVE]

What’s the Leafs options?

The team doesn’t have much trading chips unless it’s Florida’s second round pick, Cowan , Matthews and Nylander.

The rest of the team like Reilly would be difficult to move, same with Domi, Jarnkrok and Kampf.

The Leafs should not be signing Bennett for 7 years as he is 29 and will be 36 years old when his deal expires. The UFA crop this off-season is weak and a lot of teams have more cap space to go after the better free agents. Leafs should not overpay for this crop.

The window to compete is 3 years when Matthews will hit free agency and Leafs will most likely move on or trade him on final year as I don’t see them re-signing him in his 30’s for a long-term deal.

It seems like the compete window has closed after 9 years trying to win and the Leafs spent most of the futures for any viable trade options.

I think that's the completely pessimistic and negative outlook of the team. There are a lot of different ways it can go for the next 3 to 5 years but I'm not sure why it's a forgone conclusion that Matthews leaves as soon as he can. It's very likely he stays here for his career to me... dude can break every record of one of the oldest franchises in the league and make his fortune.

I don't really disagree about overpaying for UFAs but that's the case for every July 1st regardless of the competitive window. That's how good teams become bad very fast is by signing anchors. You never want to shoot yourself in the foot.

But if you really think this is it for the window with no possibility of anything working out, Matthews is gone, everyone sucks, nobody else can ever replace or do better, you might as well overpay for Bennett and whoever now.

 

[Americanadian]

I think that's the completely pessimistic and negative outlook of the team. There are a lot of different ways it can go for the next 3 to 5 years but I'm not sure why it's a forgone conclusion that Matthews leaves as soon as he can. It's very likely he stays here for his career to me... dude can break every record of one of the oldest franchises in the league and make his fortune.

If you're Toronto - do you want to sign Matthews through his age 38 season on what will likely be the highest cap hit in the league?

He hasn't had a fully healthy season since he was a rookie. The wheels can fall off during year 1 of that next contract. We may have already seen the start of the decline this season.

 

[SprDaVE]

If you're Toronto - do you want to sign Matthews through his age 38 season on what will likely be the highest cap hit in the league?

He hasn't had a fully healthy season since he was a rookie. The wheels can fall off during year 1 of that next contract. We may have already seen the start of the decline this season.

Short answer -- yes.

Long answer -- hell yes

But I don't have a crystal ball. That answer can change a lot in the next while. Maybe he's never the same. Maybe he's broken forever. Maybe he's the best Leafs ever. Maybe he breaks Ovechkins record. He's a franchise center now and should retire a Maple Leaf.

 

[sxvnert]

Knies Matthews Domi
Cowan Duchene Nylander
Tavares Toews Kane
Lorentz Laughton Armia

McCabe Tanev
OEL Carlo
Benoit Villeneuve
Rutta

1) Stolarz
2) Allen
3) Reimer

Buyout Rielly if hes unwilling to waive.

 

[Americanadian]

Short answer -- yes.

Long answer -- hell yes

But I don't have a crystal ball. That answer can change a lot in the next while. Maybe he's never the same. Maybe he's broken forever. Maybe he's the best Leafs ever. He's a franchise center now and should retire a Maple Leaf.

You don't need a crystal ball to see how he'll age into his mid 30s. We're seeing it in real time at age 27.

 

[SprDaVE]

You don't need a crystal ball to see how he'll age into his mid 30s. We're seeing it in real time at age 27.

Crosby had multiple concussions and many injury issues early in his career. He played 99 reg. season games between 2010 and 2013. Plenty of people thought he was done long-term as well. There are many ways this can go. You think he's done, that's fine, but I think for now I still see a Franchise player with plenty of beastly attributes.

This is a cursed franchise and we only know negativity and the bad side of an outcome so I get it.

 

[SprDaVE]

Knies Matthews Domi
Cowan Duchene Nylander
Tavares Toews Kane
Lorentz Laughton Armia

McCabe Tanev
OEL Carlo
Benoit Villeneuve
Rutta

1) Stolarz
2) Allen
3) Reimer

Buyout Rielly if hes unwilling to waive.

Buyout Rielly just to promote Villeneuve and sign Rutta as the 7th D? Traded Woll for what? Duchene, Kane, Toews and Armia added? I don't see the vision or how this is a good team. You'd probably still have a lot of cap space too.

 

[MajorLeaf]

This whole post basically outlines the argument for signing Sam Bennett.

To your point - they have no tradeable assets and likely only three years left with Matthews. Is Bennett the best use of 8-9M for the next 3 seasons? Given the FA crop the answer is likely yes.

I agree that Sam Bennett would be an awesome pick up, the only concern is how long can he go on these playoff runs until mid-June on back-to-back years. Will it take a toll on his body now that he is going to be in his 30’s on the new deal.

Guess you have to roll the dice as nothing else has worked over 58 years now.

 

[rumman]

A couple of weeks removed from anothrr game 7 choke job and people are already thinking the only option is to run it back, when the real solution is to move every member of the core. It’s not impossible, it just takes ghe stones to do what needs doing……..

 

[MajorLeaf]

I think that's the completely pessimistic and negative outlook of the team. There are a lot of different ways it can go for the next 3 to 5 years but I'm not sure why it's a forgone conclusion that Matthews leaves as soon as he can. It's very likely he stays here for his career to me... dude can break every record of one of the oldest franchises in the league and make his fortune.

I don't really disagree about overpaying for UFAs but that's the case for every July 1st regardless of the competitive window. That's how good teams become bad very fast is by signing anchors. You never want to shoot yourself in the foot.

But if you really think this is it for the window with no possibility of anything working out, Matthews is gone, everyone sucks, nobody else can ever replace or do better, you might as well overpay for Bennett and whoever now.

I don’t believe the window is closed, just hoping Matthews doesn’t pull a Marner at the last year of his contract where he nixes trades at the deadline then doesn’t sign again. That is the only worry.

 

[Americanadian]

Crosby had multiple concussions and many injury issues early in his career. He played 99 reg. season games between 2010 and 2013. Plenty of people thought he was done long-term as well. There are many ways this can go. You think he's done, that's fine, but I think for now I still see a Franchise player with plenty of beastly attributes.

This is a cursed franchise and we only know negativity and the bad side of an outcome so I get it.

If I recall correctly, and the quick research I did says yes, concussions were the bulk of Crosby's injuries through the early 2010s. Concussions are much different than the physical injuries Matthews appears to be suffering from.

Injuries to your wrists, shoulders and back generally linger - as Matthews has stated.

Concussions, IF the player can actually recover, don't have lingering physical effects.

 

[Americanadian]

I agree that Sam Bennett would be an awesome pick up, the only concern is how long can he go on these playoff runs until mid-June on back-to-back years. Will it take a toll on his body now that he is going to be in his 30’s on the new deal.

Guess you have to roll the dice as nothing else has worked over 58 years now.

He very likely breaks down but you're asking for him to be a similar version of himself for 3/7 years. I also don't know how to quantify the value of having him in the locker room with young players like Knies and Cowan and teaching them what it takes to actually win a cup. The nightmare scenario is Knies learns all of his habits from Matthews and Nylander.

 

[SprDaVE]

I don’t believe the window is closed, just hoping Matthews doesn’t pull a Marner at the last year of his contract where he nixes trades at the deadline then doesn’t sign again. That is the only worry.

Maybe he does. Maybe he doesn't. I see no reason why he's not here for his career other than fear mongering. And maybe the Leafs end up rebuilding and blowing it up. Maybe by miracle they are in the finals and maybe even win a cup. That's on Treliving.

I will find it amusing if Treliving let's Marner and Matthews slip out of this team with what happened in Calgary. Yikes. Not sure he'll find work after that.

If I recall correctly, and the quick research I did says yes, concussions were the bulk of Crosby's injuries through the early 2010s. Concussions are much different than the physical injuries Matthews appears to be suffering from.

Injuries to your wrists, shoulders and back generally linger - as Matthews has stated.

Concussions, IF the player can actually recover, don't have lingering physical effects.

Concussions are so much more volatile than any other physical ailment. But like this is just an example of a player going through a rough patch and being to move past it. Maybe Matthews does, maybe he doesn't. There are no reasons why he can't with proper treatments or whatever. He doesn't even need surgery. A lot of proclamations on what will happen with a glass half empty here. Even with whatever injury he had to deal with Matthews was still very much a top end center anyway, he just wasn't a 70 goal scorer.

 

[Americanadian]

Concussions are so much more volatile than any other physical ailment. But like this is just an example of a player going through a rough patch and being to move past it. Maybe Matthews does, maybe he doesn't. There are no reasons why he can't with proper treatments or whatever. A lot of proclamations on what will happen with a glass half empty here. Even with whatever injury he had to deal with Matthews was still very much a top end center anyway, he just wasn't a 70 goal scorer.

The issue is - even if Matthews is a top 5C in the league at age 30, he will demand the highest AAV when his next contract comes up.

You're once again paying the player to be the best player in the league when they are sitting around #10. The only difference is now they are getting worse year over year.

Also - with Draisaitl, Mack, Kucherov and McDavid signed by the time Matthews comes up. There likely won't be any players that pass him by AAV for a long time. Maybe J. Hughes.

 

[Tony Romo]

If I recall correctly, and the quick research I did says yes, concussions were the bulk of Crosby's injuries through the early 2010s. Concussions are much different than the physical injuries Matthews appears to be suffering from.

Injuries to your wrists, shoulders and back generally linger - as Matthews has stated.

Concussions, IF the player can actually recover, don't have lingering physical effects.

A lot of time Crosby missed was related to post concussion syndrome, so it did linger for him.

 

[Americanadian]

A lot of time Crosby missed was related to post concussion syndrome, so it did linger for him.

Yes - but is it a lingering issue today the same way a wrist/back/shoulder issue would be?

 

[Tony Romo]

Yes - but is it a lingering issue today the same way a wrist/back/shoulder issue would be?

I mean, I'd say so. You're more prone to concussions if there is a history there. Matthews wrist/back/shoulder issues aren't ending his career. He still was above a PPG this year while providing selke calibre defence.

 

[SprDaVE]

The issue is - even if Matthews is a top 5C in the league at age 30, he will demand the highest AAV when his next contract comes up.

You're once again paying the player to be the best player in the league when they are sitting around #10. The only difference is now they are getting worse year over year.

Also - with Draisaitl, Mack, Kucherov and McDavid signed by the time Matthews comes up. There likely won't be any players that pass him by AAV for a long time. Maybe J. Hughes.

The downside of doing shorter term deals. Maybe they'll finally understand that 8 year deals to core/top end players is much more worth it instead of the short-term cap money relief. Thankfully they got it done with Nylander.

But yes, they will need to pay him relative to his echelon when he gets there. And they very likely will pay him. So many things can happen and change in 3 years so I have no idea how much that opinion will change. But early outlook is that they will have no issues getting it done.

 

[Dreakmur]

What’s the Leafs options?

The team doesn’t have much trading chips unless it’s Florida’s second round pick, Cowan , Matthews and Nylander.

The rest of the team like Reilly would be difficult to move, same with Domi, Jarnkrok and Kampf.

The Leafs should not be signing Bennett for 7 years as he is 29 and will be 36 years old when his deal expires. The UFA crop this off-season is weak and a lot of teams have more cap space to go after the better free agents. Leafs should not overpay for this crop.

The window to compete is 3 years when Matthews will hit free agency and Leafs will most likely move on or trade him on final year as I don’t see them re-signing him in his 30’s for a long-term deal.

It seems like the compete window has closed after 9 years trying to win and the Leafs spent most of the futures for any viable trade options.

The best value is likely taking on players who had off seasons and bet they rebound. Chris Kreider, William Karlsson, Lawson Crouse, etc.

We dont really need to surround Matthews and Nylander with skill. They can be surrounded by complimentary roleplayers who will score more by being with an elite player.

 

[aingefan]

At this moment, the immediate window is two years til the team has its own picks back. The D and G positions are covered for this duration.
Then there’s the three year window when AM and MD expire. At his time, Woll is due for an extension and Cowan (and a few others) are off their ELC’s.
I find it hard to believe that Bennett would want to leave FLA.
I find it hard to believe that Mitch wants to come back.
I think there’s a fair chance that the 25-26 version of the leafs has an excellent first line and 3 3rd lines. If you roll the lines pretty evenly, I think this can work just fine.
It’ll be helpful if the team can incorporate some cost-effective youth into these windows by developing them on the fly.
If you’re confident doing it, then it makes supplementing the roster much easier.

 

[jiggy35]

Would love to get Crouse and Jenner to form a large and in charge 3rd line of McMann - Jenner - Crouse.

Wonder what it would take to get Jenner out of Columbus.

Crouse more easily could be had and would be a target regardless.