There were fewer ES goals that season because so much time was spent on the PP for both teams
Rookie Ovechkin or Prime Matthews
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PatriceBergeronFan
Registered User
ES scoring per minute has also been higher in recent years, and there’s 3 on 3 and teams are pulling the goalie more. Matthews also had a terrible on-ice save percentage so gave up a lot more goals than expected. Though his on-ice save percentage being poor is a bit of a trend
True, but even when you factor that in, the Leafs were giving up more goals per 60 with Matthews on the ice at ES than the Caps were with Ovechkin.
ES Minutes
Matthews: 1274
Ovechkin: 1141
81 / 1274 = .0635
70 / 1141 = .061
To be fair, Matthews had 10 EN goals against and 4 3v3 goals against. I don't know what wonky situations apply for Ovie because natural stat trick doesn't do the data for '05-06 but clearly there was less EN and no 3v3.
Whatever the case, this idea that Matthews was getting a significantly better defensive result is not showing up in the Goals against stats despite Ovechkin being surrounded by very bad lottery team players.
Ovechkin tilted the ice so much he didn’t really need to play defense. Matthews is inconsistent with his defensive play but when he’s on he’s a truly great defensive player for someone with his offense, or just for any forward in general really.
Nadal On Clay
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If you seriously think 2006 Ovechkin was better than 2022 Matthews you need to reevaluate your hockey opinions. One of the worst poll results I’ve seen here.
Obvious Fabertism
Registered User
Rookie Ovechkin was the most entertaining hockey player since Wayne, and maybe more so. Just a complete bull on the ice, pure strength and energy unleashed in a way that was extremely refreshing.
“Better” could mean a lot of things, but in a sport that’s ultimately about entertainment, I don’t think much of anything the last two decades comes close to rookie Ovechkin in terms of impact.
“Better” could mean a lot of things, but in a sport that’s ultimately about entertainment, I don’t think much of anything the last two decades comes close to rookie Ovechkin in terms of impact.
Gretzky wasn’t really all that entertaining, atleast not compared to dozens of players who came before and after like Orr, Lemieux, Bure, Forsberg, Jagr, Lindros, etc. but I can agree a young Ovechkin could be #1 all-time in terms of entertainment value
HTFN
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you say it like that's bad but it's one of the most desirable things you could ask for in a forward. Ovechkin "not playing defense" means he's on offense, which is just categorically better than being a good defensive presence by default.
Matthews is clearly the better player to this point of their careers.
Better goal scorer, selke nominee, generally the leading shot blocker as a forward.
He’s ahead of ovy by 27. But there is basically zero chance he has a better back half than ovy.
Too injury prone
Better goal scorer, selke nominee, generally the leading shot blocker as a forward.
He’s ahead of ovy by 27. But there is basically zero chance he has a better back half than ovy.
Too injury prone
GlitchMarner
There was a Glitch and my username was switched
Ummm... what?
You can argue peak Matthews is better than rookie Ovechkin, but by no means is Matthews through age 27 better than Ovechkin up to age 27.
Ovechkin won the Ted Lindsay three years in a row and had three Hart trophies by age 27.
Matthews has more career goals.
Plays C
Selke nominee.
All of his metrics are better.
Ovy played as the young star in a league with way less talent then now.
Crosby was injured for 2 years.
No comparison to Drai/mack/kuch/mcdavid
How did I say that like it’s bad? Of course it’s a good trait to have as a mainly offensive player..
Matthews is seriously underrated compared to Ovechkin. People aren’t aware of how impressive his numbers are for his deployment. Someone already did adjustments and Ovechkin played in a slightly higher scoring environment than Matthews did up to the same age (taking into account PP and ES usage and scoring rates), and Matthews still scored more goals while being a two-way center. How many centres in NHL history scored at his rate with his usage or level of defensive skill and responsibility? The answer is essentially zero unless there’s some pre WW2 player that’s not coming to mind here.
All of this is not to say I personally believe Matthews is better prime for prime, but it’s no crazier an opinion than rookie Ovechkin being better than prime Matthews. It is way closer than this board would ever admit.
Which season was the bold?
This is a bit misleading. There were an extra 6 powerplays per game in Ovechkin's rookie season. Matthews might have been on the ice for an extra ~11 goals against but he was also playing an extra ~3 minutes per game at ES.
The season he won the Hart trophy
Just want to add how funny it is that Matthews at his peak scored 51 goals in 50 games, and people are genuinely insisting rookie Ovechkin was better with 52 goals the entire season, and Matthews did this as a two-way player with half the powerplay time
Even if you take empty net points out from that season for both of them McDavid was slightly ahead of Matthews in points/game.
FWIW I voted Matthews in this poll. I think people are being swayed by Matthews’ relative inconsistency and the fact that he’s having a bit of an off year. But when he’s been at his best I think he was better than Ovechkin as a rookie.
Prime vs prime is a different story
To be fair to rookie Ovechkin, the next closest scorer on his team that season would have finished 7th or 8th on the Leafs the year Matthews first scored 60. Matthews was a more well rounded player giving him the edge, but as sheer dominant offensive player I think even a rookie Ovechkin gets that nod. Give him Mitch Marner in his rookie season and it’s not a stretch to think he’d have been able to hit 60 too.Just want to add how funny it is that Matthews at his peak scored 51 goals in 50 games, and people are genuinely insisting rookie Ovechkin was better with 52 goals the entire season, and Matthews did this as a two-way player with half the powerplay time
BraveCanadian
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Caps8112
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This is true. Was true for Ovi too, no matter how unfair. Just winning a cup takes away a lot of hate for a player. I sitll take rookie Ovi but its not like that means prime matthews season wasnt ridiculous too. Rookie Ovi had Zubrus as his next best player. Matthews, even with more responsibilities was playing on a team worlds better then the 06 caps. The players on the 06 caps were castoffs, unrealized draft picks and vets trying to stay in the league one more time. Matthews prime he is with with his current core that is trying to win the cup. Just not comparable.
