Prospect Info: Robert Hagg [March 2014: AAV is $925k, 3-yr ELC, per Tim P.]

[Striiker]

It's not really surprising that people take exception to the manner in which you post. You seem surprised each time you get an infraction, yet your posts are always riddled with heavy amounts of sarcasm, insults and a negative tone. Lighten the posts a little and you may find people more receptive to your opinions.

Believe it or not, the people who are overly sensitive and get triggered by the tone of my posts are in the vast minority. I talk to most of the board with zero issues.

If people don't want sarcastic responses then they shouldn't say dumb things. They don't get sarcasm for having a different opinion, they get it for either having an opinion that's backed up by bullshit or by making incorrect claims and trying to disguise it as an opinion.

Hagg clearly is an effective one on one defenseman when defending the rush. You don't see him get dangled or beaten to the outside. Quite often he forces the player to the outside and forces a bad angle shot. That's a skill. He's also very effective at board battles. He dominates larger forwards one on one when the puck is stapled to the boards. That's another skill in which he performs at a high level. For a guy that isn't blessed with great footspeed, he seems particularly effective at nullifying odd man rushes. For a guy that doesn't do a single thing at a high level, he has somehow been a positive player results wise while playing at a far higher level than he should.

There's been plenty of times when he's let people past him with his lackadaisical skating. But even if we ignore that, do you know who else doesn't usually get beat? Andrew "Backwards Speed Skater" MacDonald. If two of the best attributes Hagg has are being far enough back to not get beat and being strong then I think that pretty much says it all. In 2017 that isn't even close to enough.

If we want to talk about results, he currently leads the team in plus minus while averaging nearly 20 minutes a game. We are 30 games into the season. This hasn't happened by accident. Plus minus is a terrible statistic in isolation just as Corsi, Fenwick and every other measure is. He has had bad games this season, but cut the guy a break. He's a 22 year old rookie. Just because he's had 4 years in the AHL means absolutely nothing, he's still a rookie.

I couldn't care less about +/- since it's obviously not a stat that reflects an individuals performance. Lukcily for Hagg, he played with one of our two best defensemen every night and has had crazy luck with the saves Elliott makes when he's on the ice... aka, the opposite of Sanheim. Like Appleyard has said, both are far from sustainable.

As for those other stats, I don't pay attention to them. I only judge by watching people play, if the stats back me up then OK, if not oh well. I'm simply not interested in them and the only time I've ever posted about them is if I'm quoting someones post who happened to mention them.

Like I've said many times, I have no problem with being patient with rookies. But that's only when you can either see progress or at least have reason to believe they can take steps forward.

I mentioned Sanheim as an example of this... he isn't scoring much but his track record leads us to believe that the scoring will come along soon. Hagg's track record leads us to believe that puck moving will continue to be a problem because it was one before he ever got to the NHL.

 

[deadhead]

I think down the road, as we have better depth, some pairings will depend on opponents.

Provorov - Ghost has a lot of offensive potential, but do you want them against a big, forechecking top line? But against a speed team they could be very effective.
Morin - Myers could be a dominating 2nd pair, with Myers, Morin could play it safe but still jump into plays, and their size and mobility would give teams fits.
Sanheim - Gudas could become a top 4 pairing once Sanheim grows up mentally and physically.
Ghost - Hagg is an alternative pairing with Hagg protecting Ghost in the D-zone by doing the "dirty" work
If Sanheim is comfortable playing the RHD in the future, he could be paired with Morin as well , Myers moving up with Provorov.

Provorov - Gudas, Morin - Myers on the PK, but do you want to expose Myers?
Ghost on 1st PP, Provorov - Sanheim on 2nd PP.

 

[Striiker]

Ha! Man, someone getting pretty defensive over there.. I’m beginning to think Hagg slapped your dog or something for all the countless hours and thousands of posts that you make, trying to show everyone how you’re right and they and the Flyers management are wrong about him.

Indeed.com/FlyersHeadScout+PlayerEvaluator. Has your name all over it

Defensive? Which one of us got worked up about somebody putting words in their mouth... and then did exactly that in the same post? That must be embarrassing for you.

And I don't need to show anyone I'm right. Hagg proves me right. If you want to ignore reality then that's on you.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

You are dead to me.

Haha sorry. By that I only mean not completely useless and cheap. In no way am I trying to argue he's actively good.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Hagg is a great example of what piss poor coaching can do to a player. If he had a decent defensive coach who could teach him the finer points, Hagg would be an extremely competent player in his role. Right now, he's mediocre and that's because of the instruction he has received and continues to receive. Could you picture how much better he'd be if a guy like Timonen were around to point out the finer things to him? Instead, he's got Gord Murphy instructing him. Let that sink/stink in for a moment.......

 

[HankMardukis]

Defensive? Which one of us got worked up about somebody putting words in their mouth... and then did exactly that in the same post? That must be embarrassing for you.

And I don't need to show anyone I'm right. Hagg proves me right. If you want to ignore reality then that's on you.

Worked up, says the one who jumps in every Hagg conversation to try and prove his point

As I’ve said many times, he’s not a top 4 defenseman, I think it’s obvious. It’s just funny that when someone makes a claim other than “he Sucks, or is garbage,” people go full blown snowflake.

 

[Jack Straw]

Here's something rather interesting. I was reading through Hagg's thread in the prospects forum, and this jumped out:

“I figured that I had to do something, otherwise I wasn’t going to last long in this organization,” said Hagg, a native of Uppsala, Sweden. “Then we talked about just simplifying the game, play hard, play physical, take care of the D zone and I think I did that the last two and a half months last year and this year as well.”

“It seems like the less you do, the better it goes for you over here,” said the 6-foot-2, 212-pound Hagg. “You don’t have to look for that home-run play every single time. Sometimes it’s just putting it off the glass and out, getting it out of the D zone and that’s making a good play. Back home it’s like you have to find a good tape-to-tape pass from blueline to blueline to make something happen.”

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/d-robert-hagg-2013-41st-phi.1222217/page-4
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/d-robert-hagg-2013-41st-phi.1222217/page-4
The quote is from February of this year.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Here's something rather interesting. I was reading through Hagg's thread in the prospects forum, and this jumped out:

“I figured that I had to do something, otherwise I wasn’t going to last long in this organization,” said Hagg, a native of Uppsala, Sweden. “Then we talked about just simplifying the game, play hard, play physical, take care of the D zone and I think I did that the last two and a half months last year and this year as well.”

“It seems like the less you do, the better it goes for you over here,” said the 6-foot-2, 212-pound Hagg. “You don’t have to look for that home-run play every single time. Sometimes it’s just putting it off the glass and out, getting it out of the D zone and that’s making a good play. Back home it’s like you have to find a good tape-to-tape pass from blueline to blueline to make something happen.”

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/d-robert-hagg-2013-41st-phi.1222217/page-4
The quote is from February of this year.

Kid is right, he would be plodding in ahl barely breaking even and instead he makes close to a million bucks.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

Haha sorry. By that I only mean not completely useless and cheap. In no way am I trying to argue he's actively good.

I wish he wouldn't play so damn aggressively. I wouldn't mind him as a 7 if he could just exist back there.

He really is terrible with the puck.

 

[Striiker]

Worked up, says the one who jumps in every Hagg conversation to try and prove his point

As I’ve said many times, he’s not a top 4 defenseman, I think it’s obvious. It’s just funny that when someone makes a claim other than “he Sucks, or is garbage,” people go full blown snowflake.

Sorry, I'll just let people flood the website with stupid posts and never challenge them on it.

That's the definition of a snowflake, someone who can't handle being challenged on their beliefs because it shows how flawed they are. If you're willing to share your opinion you should be willing to back it up with something substantial. Otherwise a discussion board isn't the place for you.

 

[kudymen]

This is my favorite thread in the world - right after all the other threads in all the f***ing worlds.

 

[Danko]

you know whats annoying...the word snowflake. I guess im being a snowflake by admitting that. That is right up there with MAGA on the list of shit i cannot stand.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

My contribution to this discussion is to tell you that Uppsala is an awesome, awesome place - it's about a 55 minute train ride from Stockholm - a very comfortable train ride - and it is utterly beautiful. It's possibly the one place in the world (outside Japan) I would move to if I had my choice. And I still might. So the best thing about Hagg is his hometown. There can be no debating this point.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

I truly have to ask, how the hell did we let a thread about Hagg get to 42 pages... I'm really stunned...

 

[Jack Straw]

you know whats annoying...the word snowflake. I guess im being a snowflake by admitting that. That is right up there with MAGA on the list of **** i cannot stand.

I agree. Here in Maine we get plenty of snowflakes. Generally they're nice, we're getting some right now. Unless we get like three feet of them piled up and then it's a pita.

 

[HankMardukis]

Sorry, I'll just let people flood the website with stupid posts and never challenge them on it.

That's the definition of a snowflake, someone who can't handle being challenged on their beliefs because it shows how flawed they are. If you're willing to share your opinion you should be willing to back it up with something substantial. Otherwise a discussion board isn't the place for you.

No you should keep at it because you’re doing a fantastic job at adding to them

Like all the times I said Hagg is not a top 4 dman? Robert Hagg Stats | Hockey-Reference.com Does a good enough job of showing the advanced stats for me, although it shouldn’t take advanced stats for anyone to realize it. Bottom pairing, yes.

Aaand with that, I’ll leave it to everyone else to battle it out. I’ve wasted enough time here and actually have to get some work done today.

 

[BritainStix]

Sorry, I'll just let people flood the website with stupid posts and never challenge them on it.

That's the definition of a snowflake, someone who can't handle being challenged on their beliefs because it shows how flawed they are. If you're willing to share your opinion you should be willing to back it up with something substantial. Otherwise a discussion board isn't the place for you.

An opinion is an opinion. You seem to hold this case that what you believe is always true. You use this as a means of justifying your abuse of individuals on the forum. You stated it yourself, its a discussion board and everyone has the right to post what they beleive to be true.

What i have noticed is that people attempt to back up their opinions only to be met with more ridicule and insults. You arent on the board to police it. If you believe people are trolling, report them and let the mods deal with it. This is probably the best board with regards to mod activity and the line they tow. They are fair across the board.

I have no doubt you would have been banned had you been posting like this on the main boards. I enjoy reading here, but it gets real tiring watching two posters going back and forth in every thread. It basically kills any input from other posters.

If that makes me a snowflake I dont really give two f***s. This isnt pre-school. I just want to chat shit with other flyers fans, ideally more than 2....

 

[flyersfan187]

So that is what a snowflake is! It annoyed me even when I didn't know what it meant.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

This thread ought to be renamed to General Pettiness Thread.

 

[Striiker]

No you should keep at it because you’re doing a fantastic job at adding to them

Like all the times I said Hagg is not a top 4 dman? Robert Hagg Stats | Hockey-Reference.com Does a good enough job of showing the advanced stats for me, although it shouldn’t take advanced stats for anyone to realize it. Bottom pairing, yes.

Aaand with that, I’ll leave it to everyone else to battle it out. I’ve wasted enough time here and actually have to get some work done today.

OK thanks, I will.

I can appreciate someone who gives and takes little jabs without throwing a fit.

Have a nice day.

An opinion is an opinion. You seem to hold this case that what you believe is always true. You use this as a means of justifying your abuse of individuals on the forum. You stated it yourself, its a discussion board and everyone has the right to post what they beleive to be true.

Not even close to true. Like I already said, I can discuss things with the majority of the board with no issues, whether we agree or disagree. It's only a tiny minority of people who say ridiculous things and then get all agitated when they're challenged on it. When they throw a fit, like this one I'm responding to, I don't care about being patient with them. Me being blunt isn't going to physically harm anyone, I promise.

As a side note, saying something incorrect and then defending it by saying "it's an opinion" only works if it's actually an opinion. Half the time when people say that, they're trying to defend an incorrect statement. I've said multiple times that I couldn't care less if people love Hagg and say he's their favorite player, because that's actually an opinion.

What i have noticed is that people attempt to back up their opinions only to be met with more ridicule and insults. You arent on the board to police it. If you believe people are trolling, report them and let the mods deal with it. This is probably the best board with regards to mod activity and the line they tow. They are fair across the board.

If someone backs up their opinion with something real then we can discuss it. If they back it up with nonsense like an appeal to authority or blatantly incorrect statements, then no, I'm not really interested to hear their thoughts.

Also funny that you say I'm not on the board to police it (which I don't do anyway), in the middle of a post where you're trying to police it...

I have no doubt you would have been banned had you been posting like this on the main boards. I enjoy reading here, but it gets real tiring watching two posters going back and forth in every thread. It basically kills any input from other posters.

If that makes me a snowflake I dont really give two ****s. This isnt pre-school. I just want to chat **** with other flyers fans, ideally more than 2....

Believe it or not, I'm not particularly concerned about what you like or dislike. I'm not your parent or your spouse or your child, it isn't my responsibility to keep you happy.

Don't like my posts? OK, write down your complaint on a piece of paper and flush it down the toilet so it can be where it belongs.

Think I should be banned? OK, then report my posts if you want. I'm not directly attacking anyone, I specifically target their posts. That's why they don't get removed. Even this post is a response to you taking shots at me. I have no grudges against anyone on this board, even you. I don't take this shit seriously enough to be personally offended or upset, that's why I don't make personal attacks.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I truly have to ask, how the hell did we let a thread about Hagg get to 42 pages... I'm really stunned...

That's what you are worried about? What about March 2104? I'm trying to figure out if that's when he's signed through or when he resurrects from the dead.

 

[Magua]

That's what you are worried about? What about March 2104? I'm trying to figure out if that's when he's signed through or when he resurrects from the dead.

That's the least of our worries. Panotch got his job back in the year 2104.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

 

[Striiker]

That article is an abomination.

Isaac further proving he has no clue what he's talking about.

 

[Magua]

Oh boy, do I have some comments on THAT article. First off, I despise media people asking players about their advanced metrics or pointing them out to them because it's just to get a "Corsi is witchcraft!" reaction. He shouldn't know or care about them, unless something specific was to be pointed out. Those numbers are for the coaches; they're for the GM. And as we see in this article, it's used as a back door argument to deride the numbers, pretending they are conjured up out of thin air and not based on what very much does happen on the ice. Improved gaps, improved breakouts, improved cycling.....do people think those have no connection?

But you can insert Hagg for any player. They all treat them with skepticism. Especially when a player has poor numbers, asking them about their poor numbers never goes well. "Oh no! My Corsi sucks? Expected goals too? I'm a failure! Who cares if I'm +13 if MA CORSI SUX?!" What a pointless exercise. No one responds well to someone telling them their shortcomings, especially when the results are there.

To zero in on Hagg now. All the things we are concerned about showed up in this article. The coaches are actively telling him to keep doing what he's doing; they're the ones ignoring the numbers, the unsustainability. They're encouraging him to keep it as safe as humanly possible and not fix anything wrong because they're telling him nothing is wrong. It's what we already knew: they value safety above all else and actively coach it up. I don't believe Hagg has some latent abilities like some, but at least a few areas could be cleaned up to improve his play-driving so it's not putrid. All is very much not right with areas of his game, obvious to eye and stats. But the coaches are lavishing him with praise for his game, telling him to keep on keeping on as is. People who say, "He's a third pair d-man" -- he's not. People who expect him to get bumped down for our better prospects -- well, I'll just wait and see with that one.

Side note: loved how Isaac directly compared his play style to Gudas. It's like comparing Weise's play style to Raffl.