Prospect Info: Robert Hagg [March 2014: AAV is $925k, 3-yr ELC, per Tim P.]

[tictactoe]

when not under pressure.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

A player is very rarely not under pressure in the NHL.

 

[Striiker]

when not under pressure.

Well yeah, I think I could manage to make an outlet pass if nobody is near me too.

 

[Striiker]

Grossmann 2.0

 

[sa cyred]

Grossmann 2.0

Wouldn’t be surprised at all that it’s the coaching staff telling him to do it. Pretty easily believable when you see how he gets the puck and either looks for Ghost or throws it off the glass.

 

[deadhead]

Grossmann 2.0

Or simply, "walk before you run" strategy of player development.

Have him perfect the safest moves, then over time encourage him to become more ambitious without taking foolish (i.e. see Manning last year) chances.

If he's never going to be an offensive force, you want him to be the safest defensive defenseman around.

"A man's got to know his limitations"

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

That’s Scott Gordon’s favorite exit strategy down in the minors.

 

[Striiker]

Or simply, "walk before you run" strategy of player development.

Have him perfect the safest moves, then over time encourage him to become more ambitious without taking foolish (i.e. see Manning last year) chances.

If he's never going to be an offensive force, you want him to be the safest defensive defenseman around.

"A man's got to know his limitations"

Oh please.

You think they brought up a rookie defensemen who they knew couldn't pass the puck and just said to slap it up the boards every time he can't have his partner save him?

And those are "safe" moves the same way icing the puck is a "safe move". It may release pressure for a second, but then the opponent is right back in your zone. If it was Ghost or Sanheim doing this you'd be blasting them and saying they don't belong in the NHL, and you'd be right. A player who can't move the puck, other than just wildly shooting it into the neutral zone, doesn't belong in the NHL. And if the coach is telling him to do it, which I'm sure he isn't, them the coach is equally as guilty of incompetence.

Fact is, Hagg isn't safe at all. He's a liability all over the place and no number of hits or blocked shots is going to mask that.

 

[deadhead]

If it was Ghost or Sanheim of course I'd blast them, if they can't move the puck up and flip the ice they'd be totally useless, since they're liabilities in the D-zone.
They're not going to win scrums or clear the crease, so if they can't move the puck, what value could they have?
They'd be Schultz last year.

 

[Rebels57]

Pittsburgh did win 2 Cups by having their weaker dmen constantly using the glass to get pucks out of their zone as quickly as possible. I dont love it but as long as not ALL of your dmen are doing it, it wont kill you.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Pittsburgh did win 2 Cups by having their weaker dmen constantly using the glass to get pucks out of their zone as quickly as possible. I dont love it but as long as not ALL of your dmen are doing it, it wont kill you.

They also took chances on scoring despite it though.

 

[Appleyard]

If it was Ghost or Sanheim of course I'd blast them, if they can't move the puck up and flip the ice they'd be totally useless, since they're liabilities in the D-zone.
They're not going to win scrums or clear the crease, so if they can't move the puck, what value could they have?
They'd be Schultz last year.

Yet all of Sanheims 5v5 defensive metrics are better than Hagg.

Far less CA/60, far less SA/60... and less ExGA/60 to boot as well.

Just that one is heading for the greatest PDO in NHL history and one is heading for the worst. Neither are sustainable.

 

[Striiker]

If it was Ghost or Sanheim of course I'd blast them, if they can't move the puck up and flip the ice they'd be totally useless, since they're liabilities in the D-zone.
They're not going to win scrums or clear the crease, so if they can't move the puck, what value could they have?
They'd be Schultz last year.

Except that's a lie. Both are better than Hagg, in all 3 zones.

Odd that the one who is truly useless is the only one who gets no grief. Hagg is nothing special defensively, horrible at moving the puck, and detrimental in the offensive zone. Good thing he gets a lot of completely useless hits. He gets carried by his partner and by a crazy amount of luck.

 

[whitstifier]

Yet all of Sanheims 5v5 defensive metrics are better than Hagg.

Far less CA/60, far less SA/60... and less ExGA/60 to boot as well.

Just that one is heading for the greatest PDO in NHL history and one is heading for the worst. Neither are sustainable.

Sanheim needs to go to the Hagg school of looking tough while playing hockey. If I were him, I'd ask Gudas to headbutt me in the chompers. Gotta give that baby face some scarring.

Guarantee 20+ minutes a game if Sanheim LaBeefs his teeth for the greater good.

 

[sa cyred]

That’s Scott Gordon’s favorite exit strategy down in the minors.

Get taught it in the AHL and do it in the NHL? Seems like a typical thing a rookie would do. That and I doubt the NHL coaching staff is telling him it’s the right thing to do.

 

[sa cyred]

Yet all of Sanheims 5v5 defensive metrics are better than Hagg.

Far less CA/60, far less SA/60... and less ExGA/60 to boot as well.

Just that one is heading for the greatest PDO in NHL history and one is heading for the worst. Neither are sustainable.

i think we need to be careful about CA. Manning has a lower CA than Provorov, Hagg, Sanheim, and Ghost.w

 

[NYCFlyer]

i think we need to be careful about CA. Manning has a lower CA than Provorov, Hagg, Sanheim, and Ghost.w

It's really easy to cherry pick stats. I don't understand our boards obsession with Hagg. Why are we comparing him to Sanheim, who is plain to see highly talented but still needs a lot more experience to reach his potential. Why rush it? Hagg is better imo than what we were trotting out last year and hopefully will improve but based on what I can see will be a versatile safe cost controlled 6/7 replacing Manning. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Striiker]

Lucky us, we went from one MacDonald to two. And the new one is even worse offensively and at making good decisions with the puck than the old one.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Get taught it in the AHL and do it in the NHL? Seems like a typical thing a rookie would do. That and I doubt the NHL coaching staff is telling him it’s the right thing to do.

We’ve seen others who are more adapt at moving the puck adjust with better zone breakout strategies with the Flyers though.

 

[NYCFlyer]

Lucky us, we went from one MacDonald to two. And the new one is even worse offensively and at making good decisions with the puck than the old one.

They would be just fine as 6/7 dmen. The issue is that Amac is over 30 and was demoted to the A two years ago and now he is on the first pairing.

 

[FLYguy3911]

i think we need to be careful about CA. Manning has a lower CA than Provorov, Hagg, Sanheim, and Ghost.w

1. Manning is better than Hagg.
2. CA has just as much to do with making plays with the puck as it does about defending. That's the point.
3. Look at Manning's partners. It's not hard to see why he has the numbers he does. His 3 most common partners are the best shot suppressors on the blueline.

 

[deadhead]

Lucky us, we went from one MacDonald to two. And the new one is even worse offensively and at making good decisions with the puck than the old one.

Well, we could have MDZ, Streit and Schultz out there?
How'd that float your boat?

 

[Striiker]

Well, we could have MDZ, Streit and Schultz out there?
How'd that float your boat?

All three are trash but would be an improvement.

 

[sa cyred]

1. Manning is better than Hagg.
2. CA has just as much to do with making plays with the puck as it does about defending. That's the point.
3. Look at Manning's partners. It's not hard to see why he has the numbers he does. His 3 most common partners are the best shot suppressors on the blueline.

1. Woh now. That’s just a pure blanket statement. I understand where you are coming from because I remember from even when Hagg was drafted you were never a fan of his. But I think you might be in the severe minority in that statement, maybe even among the Hagg ditractors.

2. Going based off CA then Provorov has been horrible and Manning/MacD have been good. CA is how many shots, blocks, and misses a team has against you. CF is the opposite of that and how many you generate.

3. How are you determining the best shot suppressors here?

 

[Rebels57]

1. Manning is better than Hagg.
2. CA has just as much to do with making plays with the puck as it does about defending. That's the point.
3. Look at Manning's partners. It's not hard to see why he has the numbers he does. His 3 most common partners are the best shot suppressors on the blueline.

Manning IS NOT better than Hagg.
Good lord. Hes not even better than Alt.