Road to the Winter Classic 2022

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Brockon

Cautiously optimistic realist when caffeinated.
Aug 20, 2017
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Northern Canada
Better add Talbot being hurt to the laundry list of reasons the winter classic wasn't representative of Minnesota's play.

Missing Eriksson Ek is a major hit to their team. He does the major defensive lifting for them and is one of their better players on the dot.

Missing Spurgeon and Brodin? Yeah that definitely hurts. Dumba is a decent top 4 guy, but he shouldn't be logging 26 mins as your #1. Essentially that's us missing Parayko and Faulk in our defensive specialist and top all around dman, making us play Krug and Scandella as our top defensive pairing - we're never going to shine in that situation.

Addison playing in his 4th NHL game at 21, Merrill and Jordie Benn - those 3 bottom pairing dmen all needed sheltering. I'm shocked that Benn and Addison were only -2 on the night.

Plus, the Wild are nowhere near as deep as us as a team. This wasn't quite the Iowa Wild, but I'd say this was a pre-season calibre roster of the Wild.
 
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BlueMed

Registered User
Jul 18, 2019
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I would be shocked if we lost a series to Minnesota. They remind me of Hitch Blues type of a team. They play hard and have enough talent to win regular season games through hard work and will, but in the playoffs when everyone is going all out(like the Blues were on the big stage of the Winter Classic) they just don’t have the talent to keep up.

I would be almost equally shocked if the blues beat the Avs in a series because our defense is still subpar and we don’t really have the skill to outskill them over 7 games(I don’t think anyone does). They’ll lose to a better defensive squad like Vegas, Carolina, Florida, Tampa etc.

Our defense is absolutely not subpar. Our defense isn't top 5, but it's still top 10. Take a closer look around the league, and you'll actually appreciate how solid

Mikkola Parayko
Krug Faulk
Scandella Bortuzzo

really is because the majority of teams have 2-3 never-heard-of-him's in their D core. And since when is Carolina, Florida, and Vegas lumped together with Tampa bay? Florida hasn't gotten past the first round since....? Carolina has lots of potential but lacks that killer instact...Man, people love to dog on the Blues as if this core group of players didn't rise from rock-bottom and win a cup in the same season.
 
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BlueMed

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Jul 18, 2019
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Im saying giving teams a free pass because they are missing one or two players while at the same time putting your own team on blast while they are dealing with worse injury issues is a double standard and has been happening all year in this fan base.

The double standard comes from this mentality to expect disappointment so you don't disappointed. Blues fans on this forum love doing it. I'm all about being realistic and objective, but that's not it. That's a coward's move.
 
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Celtic Note

Living the dream
Dec 22, 2006
17,248
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That's what you got out of that? I'm just tired of the double standards. We act like the Avs, The Jets, and the Wild are on some golden pedestal out of our reach. Yet none of them made it out of the 2nd round of the playoffs. In the last three years. And the only one who made it past that in the last 5 years was Winnipeg.
Why are the Jets or Wild considered contenders? I personally don’t get it.
 

Celtic Note

Living the dream
Dec 22, 2006
17,248
6,194
The double standard comes from this mentality to expect disappointment so you don't disappointed. Blues fans on this forum love doing it. I'm all about being realistic and objective, but that's not it. That's a coward's move.
What virtue is insulting your fellow fans called?
 

Celtic Note

Living the dream
Dec 22, 2006
17,248
6,194
Im saying giving teams a free pass because they are missing one or two players while at the same time putting your own team on blast while they are dealing with worse injury issues is a double standard and has been happening all year in this fan base.
I liken this to holding your team to a higher standard because you care about them, know what they are capable of doing and want them to reach that potential. I doubt many fans care about or know enough about other teams to hold them to the same standard.

My father had this saying “I don’t care what the other kids do, I care about what you do”.
 
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Brian39

Registered User
Apr 24, 2014
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Why are the Jets or Wild considered contenders? I personally don’t get it.
I don't consider either in that top tier, but I get it with the Wild. They played at a 110 point pace last year and are currently on pace for 106 this year. They put up a hell of a fight in a 7 game series vs a damn good Vegas team last year and their 5 on 5 offense has been great this year. #3 in goals per game despite having the league's #25 PP.

I think they have too many holes to be a top tier contender, but they have put together an impressive resume in the last 12 months.
 
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ezcreepin

Registered User
Dec 5, 2016
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Our defense is absolutely not subpar. Our defense isn't top 5, but it's still top 10. Take a closer look around the league, and you'll actually appreciate how solid

Mikkola Parayko
Krug Faulk
Scandella Bortuzzo

really is because the majority of teams have 2-3 never-heard-of-him's in their D core. And since when is Carolina, Florida, and Vegas lumped together with Tampa bay? Florida hasn't gotten past the first round since....? Carolina has lots of potential but lacks that killer instact...Man, people love to dog on the Blues as if this core group of players didn't rise from rock-bottom and win a cup in the same season.
I'm not about to sit here and tell you that Florida is going to wipe the floor of the other teams this year, but to say that Carolina lacks killer instinct is a bit disingenuous. In 2019 they beat good teams in Washington and the Islanders to get to Boston where they did get swept, but they beat teams that were arguably better than them that year. The next year they lost to Boston again, but beat a good Rangers team who had just had 11 wins in 15 games a month before the playoffs. Then last year they beat Nashville (who wasn't great) and ended up playing against the Stanley Cup champs Tampa Bay. Idk what much else they have to do to show they are a good team who can beat other good teams. They've had some bad luck, but they are more than good enough to get into the Finals. Blues should've been there plenty of times until they finally got there. Need lots of luck and a good shot and any team can win. Florida probably needs more experience, but Carolina has everything they need to win now.
 
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Brian39

Registered User
Apr 24, 2014
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Our defense is absolutely not subpar. Our defense isn't top 5, but it's still top 10...Man, people love to dog on the Blues as if this core group of players didn't rise from rock-bottom and win a cup in the same season.

In a conversation about the defense, the bolded simply isn't true/relevant. The core of the defense has turned over since the Cup run. The D for the Cup run was (in order of playoff TOI) Petro, Parayko, Bouw, Eddy, Dunn, Gunnar and Bortz. We relied heavily on that three headed monster up top, giving each of them 600+ minutes while they next highest-used D man saw 363 minutes. Just 2 of our current D men were here for the 2019 Cup run and one of them was the least-used member of the group. A third of the D core remains and a quarter of the support group remains. The D core absolutely can't rely on 2019 as a proof of concept that they are battle tested. I get that the bolded comment was a general statement about the overall negativity toward our team, but I do think that it is an important distinction when the direct criticism is the blueline.

I'm not worried about ROR, Tarasenko, Perron, Schenn, and Sunny bringing it in the playoffs like they did in 2019. I have concerns about Schenn and his contract moving forward, but I didn't think we got his A game in 2019 either (I don't think there is much of a case to make that he was one of our 5 most important forwards and I had him as 6th or 7th). I'm not worried about Thomas and Barby bringing more this year than they brought in 2019. I feel good that Thomas, Kyrou, Buch, Saad, Barbie, and Bozak can contribute as much or more than we got out of Schwartz, Bozak, Thomas, Maroon, Steen and Sanford. I think the general consensus here is that the forward group is better than the 2019 group and has enough guys who were here in 2019 to know exactly how to translate their talent to playoff production.

The concern is the defense and maybe Binner (depending on who you ask). The fact that the forward core remains intact doesn't do anything to alleviate those concerns. It is a new group and the core of it is incredibly different stylistically than the 2019 group. We can't just plug and play our current pieces into the roles/strategies that worked in 2019. We haven't seen anything to suggest that this group can have success against good teams by riding 3 guys for 24+ minutes a night to control the game and shelter the rest of the group's weaknesses. Berube tried very hard to make Scandella work in the Bouw role and it made Scandella a clear whipping boy here. Mikkola has been really good lately, but we are still a long way out from him proving he can consistently handle 22+ minutes a night. Krug absolutely shouldn't be getting 22+ minutes a night on a consistent basis. For this group to be successful, we are going to have to spread the icetime out in a very, very different way than in 2019. Berube is experimenting with things and might find a balance/combo that works. But it is uncharted territory and at the moment the D group is still a ways away from 2019.

I tend to agree with you that the D group isn't subpar, but there is a decent argument for it. Here are the relevant per 60 defensive stats at 5 on 5: 30th in expected goals against, 24th in scoring chances against, 29th in high danger chances against, and 26th in shots against. We are 15th in goals against, but that is likely mostly because the team SV% is 10th and the team high danger SV% is 3rd. I think that part of our poor numbers are a result of playing a high tempo, high event style and not because the composition of the D group is bottom 5 in the league. But even acknowledging that, it is very hard to make a case that the group is top 10. As a team, we bleed shots and quality chances. Personally, I have the overall blueline composition somewhere between 10-20.

You talk about other teams having never-heard-of-hims, but that is exactly where Mikkola falls for non-Blues fans looking at our blue line. Scandella is a "heard of him and he is washed" for most fans and Bortz is a "heard of him because he was a dirty piece of shit on their Cup run and has been since" for most fans. I'd bet good money that if you started asking the fans of top D groups about the bottom half of their D groups, you would get very similar answers to the way we talk about Scandella, Mikkola and/or Bortz. "He's got potential to grow into...he's a good penalty killer...decent defender but sloppy with the puck...he's good so long as he isn't asked to do too much..." The bottom half of our D group is adequate, but they aren't really above replacement level #4, #5, and #6 D league-wide. Which is how most top 10 blue lines are built. But an issue is that most top 10 blue lines are better equipped to shelter that group. None of our D can single-handedly impact a game the way a Hedman, Makar, Josi, Petro, McAvoy, Fox, Ekblad, etc are able to do so.

I'm not saying that our D group can't be good enough in the playoffs. Berube is experimenting a lot and there are some positive early results from pairing Mikkola/Parayko together more often and scaling back the ludicrous usage of Scandella. But there are absolutely genuine question marks surrounding the group, the underlying numbers are ugly, and it is a different group than the 2019 blueline.
 
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Ridge1982

Registered User
Nov 4, 2019
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The double standard comes from this mentality to expect disappointment so you don't disappointed. Blues fans on this forum love doing it. I'm all about being realistic and objective, but that's not it. That's a coward's move.
It's not just on HFBoards, it's everywhere.

It's a beaten down fanbase even with a Cup.
 

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