nickschultzfan
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- Jan 7, 2009
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Spurgeon
Registered User
Yeah I definitely would love to see what Dumba could do with Stevens as his coach, but I'd also like to see what Brodin could do. It's unfortunate the expansion is happening next year because they might not have as much value a year from now even if they have better production next season.
I think something around Dumba and Drai makes more sense with the cap and structure of both teams. RNH and McDavid are a great 1-2 & it'd make more sense for them to have that veteran presence in Nuge. For us, we don't have to worry about moving other pieces to fit it under the cap. However, we're almost definitely adding onto Dumba if we're targeting Drai.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
I still don't think it quite adds up, at least not in a way where another tough decision is going to have to be made, either another defenseman or someone in the Granlund/Nino/Coyle/Haula group.
- Dec 10, 2012
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I'm 110% more fine with adding to Dumba to get Drai than adding to Dumba to get RNH, although considering both Dumba and Drai's value is based mostly on potential right now, I'd think if the two GM's did work something out, the +'s wouldn't be terrible. Regardless of what EDM fans will say. It definitely won't be something like Coyle, Nino, Granlund, 1st, Tuch, JEE, or Kunin.
forthewild
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- Aug 17, 2009
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So, Brodin is less than a year older than Dumba, RNH about 15 mos. Dumba can improve a whole bunch(true), but RNH and Brodin are "what you see is what you get"?
This convoluted sort of thinking is HFB in a nutshell. According to you, it would be better if Brodin and RNH hadn't played regular minutes the past few years as top 4 and top 6 NHL'ers respectively, because it somehow ruined their ability to improve? While Dumba's inconsistent play in junior, the AHL and the NHL is somehow a good thing?
- Dec 10, 2012
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I'm not saying playing regular minutes ruined their development, and I'm not saying they're too old to improve. However, usually players improve in their first 5 seasons or so in the NHL. This is Dumba's first full season, second season all together. He's shown improvement so far. Brodin and RNH have not really significantly improved and HAVE played those first 4-5 seasons. If they haven't improved after 4-5 seasons in the league, then they probably won't break out in season 6 and onward. The odds of them showing anything more than what they have so far are far less than the odds of Dumba showing more than what he has.
Extra Texture
A new career
You're not trying to perfect a cup winner. You're just trying to start winning more games.
If you ask me both McDavid and Draisaitl look ready enough. Next year I'm sure they perform even better. "If you're good enough, you're old enough"
I find it funny that Min fans are willing to add pieces to get Drai however want +++ from the Oilers when it comes to Nuge. You guys do realize that RNH is a better player now, and more than likely forever right? I get the dollars but RNH is a vastly superior player as it currently stands.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
If that's true, then why is Edmonton dangling him all over the place and Draisaitl is one of the untouchables?
- Dec 10, 2012
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Earlier you were talking about how some people overrate Dumba, and others completely dismiss him as if you were somewhere in the middle, but with ideas like Granlund+Dumba+ for Draisaitl I don't see how you don't fall into the "completely dismiss him" category.
Dumba is a former 7th OA pick who, at age 21, just finished tied for 19th among defensemen in goals scored with guys like Klingberg, Hedman and Lindholm, and ahead of guys like Keith, Ristolainen, Rielly, and our own Suter, who all got much more TOI (and PP TOI) than Dumba.
In fact, just go the the stats page on the NHL website, filter it so you're only looking at defensemen, and sort by goals, then sort by points. Look at Dumba's TOI, then look at all the players around him. Most of them get 3+ minutes more per game than Dumba.
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Spurgeon
Registered User
We don't really want +++ for Nuge. I just see more of an upside in losing Dumba for Drai than Dumba for RNH because of the cap and potential that Drai has. I wouldn't ask EDM to add to RNH for either Brodin or Dumba, but I'd still be very hesitant to move Dumba.
- Dec 10, 2012
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Genuinely curious, and not trying to be rude or snarky, but do you have any examples of players breaking out after 5 seasons? I'd have to guess they're few and far between, but I can't think of any players who suddenly got much better after already playing 5 seasons at a certain level of play.
La Bamba
Tier 2 Fan
- Aug 23, 2009
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Lets just say I'd probably get my 4th infraction if I told you how I really felt about this trade.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Brenty Burns! But seriously I agree that after a few years a player is pretty well defined. You might see a guy go from average to above average, or good to great from fine tuning, and there are exceptions of players who got significantly better after a longer time, but for the most part a guy isn't breaking out after 5 seasons playing top minutes.
- Dec 10, 2012
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Something similar to Brodin, who's been a sub-20 point defenseman, all of a sudden scoring 30 (50%+ point increase), or RNH, who's been about a 55 point C, suddenly becoming a 65 point C or higher (18% increase).
So I guess a points increase to some extent, but also a change in their perceived role that they can fill.
i.e. Brodin is seen as a 3-4 defenseman right now because of his lack of offense, but perhaps an increase in points to 30 would make people believe he'd be a #2 at that point.
i.e. RNH is a 55 point C, which is a low end 1C, more fit for splitting duties with another low end 1C or playing 2C than being that go to 1C, but if he increased his scoring to 25 goals and 65 points, he'd be perceived as a legitimate 1C.
Spurgeon
Registered User
