Blue Jays Discussion: RIP Roy Halladay (1977-2017)

[phillipmike]

Thanks for the reply.

The equation to me didn't make sense in 2017. Most of the people in these forums knew 2016 health was an irregularity.
Yet we brought back an closely identical roster with less hitting. Most of our stars are past the stages of development and would've likely only regressed due to age.
To me that isn't trying very hard.

To your point that the effort in the 2015 offseason was the same, I would agree to you to an extent. Happ was a good find but to expect guys like Pearce and Morales to outperform their career averages at their ages were ambitious. I thought the team made a similar effort both off-seasons but I would've liked to have seen more commitment to either win now or trade our aging players (Estrada/Happ) for prospects.

Granted, I don't know exactly what moves they could've done given my limited baseball knowledge, but I feel like our championship window was somewhat wasted.

Name another team that had a core intact, had success one year and made several changes in hopes to be competitive again? It does not happen that often for a reason and if it does while having success it is an anomaly. Pearce and Morales werent really expected to be a core or drivers on the team. Donaldson, Bautista and full seasons Travis, Martin and Tulo were expected to be the drivers. And all of those cases except Bautista those players missed significant time.

Not every year can a team go "full effort" because there are limitations whether payroll or prospects to trade. Jays have gone"full effort" only 3 times in my lifetime 2006 (Burnett, Ryan, Glaus etc.) 2013 (Marlins and Dickey) and 2015 (Price and Tulo). I would argue 2006 worked but the Yankees and Red Sox were too good for it to mean anything. 2013 failed miserably and 2015 worked and i think it worked well because management had 3 months to see what this team was and added pieces to help the team's deficiencies (defense at SS and starting pitching in Price plus a better idea with Stroman's timeline to return from his knee injury).

Nothing will entirely makes sense to us fans. I am pretty sure there are only 1-2 teams completely happy with their team after the end of an off-season. Dont think the Jays and their ownership are the only sports franchise who didnt accomplish what they hoped - even AA wanted to add more to his 2015 team Zobrist and Hamels comes to mind. I believe i looked this up, only five 4+ WAR players were moved last off season; Turner, Fowler, Sale, Segura, Eaton whereas in most other years that number is close to 8 or 9.

We didnt have prospects to land Sale or Eaton. We had Donaldson so was Turner coming here? Did we have a need? Hazen specifically wanted a young starter for Segura... so we didnt have the pieces to land Segura and did we need him with Tulo under contract and Segura only having 1 more year? The 1 impact that was a fit for us was Fowler and they were after him heavily but St. Louis came with an offer no one should have matched.

I think content needs to be taken into account. Easy to say they didnt "go for it" but were there impact players available to them to chase? I would argue maybe 2 realistic targets and they were Edwin, Bautista, McCutch and Fowler. All players they were aggressively after.

I know this is going to turn into an AA vs Shapiro argument. I really hope it doesnt...

 

[zeke]

Pearce and Morales werent really expected to be a core or drivers on the team.

why did we waste money on non core drivers?

 

[phillipmike]

Projecting the Minor-League Free-Agent Hitters

1. Christian Lopes, 2B/3B
A seventh-round pick way back in 2011, Lopes has slowly but steadily worked his way through the Blue Jays organization, finally reaching Triple-A this past season. He hit a respectable .261/.349/.402 at the highest rung of the minor leagues while also showing speed on the bases. A 25-year-old infielder who can hit a little bit and run a little bit is about as compelling as minor-league free agents come.

9. Darrell Ceciliani, OF
Ceciliani is another seemingly unremarkable player who has remained on KATOH’s radar due to his well-rounded performances in the high minors. Ceciliani missed most of 2017 with injury but hit a solid .266/.323/.441 at Triple-A in 2016. Ceciliani’s similar to Goeddel in that he pairs decent hitting with decent speed and can play all three outfield spots.

Jon Berti on the list too at 24. Former Jay AJ Jimenez there at 12.

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/projecting-the-minor-league-free-agent-hitters-2/

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Not that they shouldn't sign him - they stuck with Smoak long enough that it paid off - or that I'm not interested in these types of reclamation project moves, but... Nick Franklin is Rob Refsnyder.

Refsnyder is also a good candidate to do the Chris Taylor lol. Chances are they’re quad-A fodder, but there’s something there with both bats.

 

[phillipmike]

why did we waste money on non core drivers?

All 25 guys cant be all stars on your roster. You have to fill your roster.

 

[zeke]

All 25 guys cant be all stars on your roster. You have to fill your roster.

Inentionally spending all your free agent money on roster filler doesn't sound like a great plan to me.

 

[phillipmike]

Inentionally spending all your free agent money on roster filler doesn't sound like a great plan to me.

I dont think it was their "plan" either. They were after better players like Edwin, Fowler, and Cutch. Edwin didnt want to sign for what they offered when they wanted to sign him. Pirates rumored to have rejected the Jays offer for Cutch and Fowler got a much better offer than the Jays were willing to spend. After missing out on plan A they signed plan B in Morales and Pearce. After missing out on Plan A in Fowler and plan B in Cutch they went to plan C in Bautista.

Same happened with AA. He missed out on Lester in 2015 he went with is internal options in Hutch/Sanchez/Norris. After plan A in Hamels didnt waive to come here he went for plan B in Leake... luckily Price became available so he went after him. He missed out on plan A in Zobrist and went after Revere.

Lost on Darvish and Chapman too. Both were primary targets and went to his plan Bs and Cs.

 

[Garlando]

Listening to MLB Network radio and listening to Chris Russo of the show High Heat and Jeff Passan of Yahoo discuss the NL MVP results. Russo is embarrassing himself using HRs and RBIs plus home ballpark as his basis for Stanton over Votto and the rest of the field saying "it shouldn't have been nearly as close as it was." He also tried to argue that Votto's patience and OBP focus is a detriment to his game...that he should be up there swinging to drive guys in as Votto hits in the middle of the lineup. Passan was just laughing and I thought did a good job explaining things to a guy stuck evaluating players with a narrow mind. Passan shares the same belief that I do, that getting on base is never a bad thing. The object of the game offensively is to score runs, you score runs by getting on base, and Votto is the best in the majors at doing that (.320 AVG/.454 OBP) while also hitting for very good power (.258 ISO, 578 SLG, and 36 HRs), plus being one of the very best defenders at 1st base. Looking at wRC+, it favors Votto over Stanton with 165 to 156 respectively. I'm okay with Stanton winning the NL MVP, he had an amazing year and I'm happy he finally was able to stay healthy and put it all together, but Votto would have had my vote for MVP if I had a say.

 

[Discoverer]

Inentionally spending all your free agent money on roster filler doesn't sound like a great plan to me.

They spent most of their free agent money on Jose Bautista.

 

[TF97]

Nicholson-Smith reporting that the Blue Jays are interested in Robbie Ross. Excellent, he was a target of mine the moment Boston let him go. Could be a quality under-the-radar addition to the bullpen.

 

[masarume]

They spent most of their free agent money on Jose Bautista.

In retrospect that wasn't exactly a smart thing to do.

If you know a guy has a limited ceiling, why not fill that void internally? If both options have limited chances to be an above average player, why not take the one that doens't cost you $$.
The opportunity cost is minimal at that point. (Morales/Pearce - Jose I understand the signing 100%)
To complain you don't have the cap size to get shiny new toys and then to waste what money you do have on subpar fillers seems counter intuitive.

 

[masarume]

I'm okay with Stanton winning the NL MVP, he had an amazing year and I'm happy he finally was able to stay healthy and put it all together, but Votto would have had my vote for MVP if I had a say.

I feel like Votto is a savant.
The guy is constantly surprising me with his control of the plate.

 

[hockeywiz542]

The trade offers are starting to roll in for National League MVP Giancarlo Stanton.

The San Francisco Giants have made a proposal to the Miami Marlins for Stanton, and the Marlins expect to receive or have received bids from the St. Louis Cardinals and Boston Red Sox as well, according to major league sources.

Other, unidentified clubs also have told the Marlins they will submit offers for Stanton, but the process is just beginning, sources said. Marlins general manager Michael Hill said this week he wanted teams to inform him of the kind of proposals they were willing to make for Stanton before determining how he will proceed.

An initial offer does not necessarily indicate serious interest; some bidders might simply be trying to gauge the Marlins’ price. Any trade for Stanton is expected to include a combination of financial relief for the Marlins and prospects the team will use to rebuild. Under the sliding scale often used in such discussions, the more money the acquiring team absorbs, the lesser the cost in prospects.

Stanton, who turns 28 on Nov. 8, is guaranteed $295 million over the next 10 seasons, and his contract includes an opt-out after 2020 and a full no-trade clause, giving him the right to reject any deal. The All-Star right fielder’s preferred destinations are not known, and he has said he does not plan to reveal them.

 

[TF97]

Former Blue Jays star Henry Blanco signed with the Nationals to be their bullpen coach.

 

[dredeye]

Are we ever gonna open a new thread? At page 52 now

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Are we ever gonna open a new thread? At page 52 now

Other threads are at page 75, so probably not.

 

[hockeywiz542]

LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. – Scott Boras played down the possibility of repercussions from the Toronto Blue Jays’ renewal of Aaron Sanchez’s salary at the major-league minimum last season as the sides head toward the right-hander’s first year of arbitration eligibility.

“My focus is not about anything other than making Aaron Sanchez the best pitcher he can be, I think that’s what the Toronto Blue Jays fans and the organization want,” the super-agent, who began representing the 25-year-old last off-season, said during the GM meetings. “Our focus and his focus has to be not on the normal course of business that occurs off the field. It really has to do with his durability, has to do with him getting on the mound and being that No. 1 pitcher that he is again."

“If that happens all things usually work out. So when you have an injury and you have a collectively bargained situation occur, those are usually start ‘em steps, and they occur most often with most major-league players. Our job is how do we get the player to be the best player he can be every day and that’s frankly Aaron’s focus. His focus is not on any of the other subjects other than he wants to be pitching and playing and helping his team. That’s really what the entirety of our conversation is.”

Having now surpassed the three-year service time threshold, he’s eligible for arbitration for the first time and the process can sometimes lead to acrimony and friction.

Sanchez’s case will be impacted by the ongoing blister troubles and complications that submarined his season when he had four different stints on the disabled list limiting him to only eight starts.

 

[canucksfan]

Some stats from AFL. Zeuch pitched well WHIP was 0.98.

Pentecost was shit and then got injured.

Guriel had an OPS of .802. He only walked twice but had a good average and some power.

 

[hockeywiz542]

The Toronto Blue Jays organization has thrown its support behind the city's Rail Deck Park vision, while councillors took the first step Tuesday to zoning the air above the downtown rail corridor as park land.

The Toronto-East York Community Council approved the recommended zoning changes, which would affect some 21 acres of space between Bathurst Street and Blue Jays Way. That decision will now to go the full city council.

If approved, the zoning would also be an obstacle to the property developers that own the air rights and had hoped to put a mix of condos, offices and park space on the site.

Coun. Joe Cressy, who represents the area, says he still believes the condo proposal won't happen because the rail corridor represents the last available space to build a signature park downtown.

"Fifty years from now, when Rail Deck Park is built and we're out there watching the Blue Jays game on the Jumbotron from a giant, new central park, nobody's going to be sitting there on the grass saying, 'Gee, I wish we'd built nine towers here instead of this park,'" Cressy told CBC Toronto.

He also welcomed the Jays' support, which came in a letter to councillors. The club says the park would "significantly enhance" the experience of millions of fans who catch a game at Rogers Centre every summer.

In addition, the Jays organization suggested extending the park further east, to the John Street bridge.

"Any time the Blue Jays are on side, you know you're doing OK," Cressy said.

Mayor John Tory is also a major proponent of the plan.

 

[trellaine201]

Do you think Evan Longoria is a better 3B than Josh?

 

[trellaine201]

Actually nevermind. Numbers say Josh.

 

[phillipmike]

Some stats from AFL. Zeuch pitched well WHIP was 0.98.

Pentecost was **** and then got injured.

Guriel had an OPS of .802. He only walked twice but had a good average and some power.

Guriel made 3 good plays at 2B. One routine play, turned a good throw to 1B to finish a double play and an excellent fielding play. Would be great if he could progress this season and be our utility guy longterm. Expecting anything from him for the 2018 blue jays would be aggressive.

 

[hockeywiz542]

After collecting intelligence at last week’s GM meetings, the Rays soon will launch their offseason mission of trading at least a couple of veterans to reduce payroll.

The question is how far they will go — how many players they deal, and how big of names they are, with everyone in play on down from face-of-the-franchise 3B Evan Longoria.

And the Rays won’t know until they start the process.

Thinking they will only deal players they’d prefer to or can more easily replace isn’t a realistic plan. RHP Jake Odorizzi (projected via arbitration to make $6.5 million), OF/DH Corey Dickerson ($6.4M) and recovering-from-surgery INF Brad Miller ($4.4M) may not draw the interest or return to do so.

The potential breakup of the roster could well be grander.

Closer Alex Colome ($5.5M) figures to be a hot topic and likely to be dealt. And they will be open to trading just about all of their other higher-paid players, including Longoria (signed for $13.5M in 2018, up to $94M remaining overall), C Wilson Ramos ($10.5M), RHP Chris Archer ($6.25M, up to $34M overall) and SS Adeiny Hechavarria ($5M projected). Perhaps less likely are CF Kevin Kiermaier ($5.5M, up to $60M overall) and RF Steven Souza Jr. ($3.6M projected). Most difficult would be Longoria, and probably only with his blessing.

The key looks to be the sequencing.

 

[MJ65]

Is there any significant news for the Jays?

 

[Eyedea]

No, but we'll find out which Rule 5 eligible players will be added to the 40-man tomorrow.