Blue Jays Discussion: RIP Roy Halladay (1977-2017)

[Suntouchable13]

I am tickled pink that Cleveland is done. When a team celebrates on your home turf, you wanna see them burn. It stays with me for a while. Now I will go back to hating the Yankees in the ALCS.

 

[Kurtz]

So this is interesting:

Apparently, Shapiro has just fired our minor league managers, several scouts, and 23 front-office personnel.

Not sure what to make of that...

 

[TheTotalPackage]

I too am glad the Indians are done. Good riddance.

Now all I hope is for the Nationals to bounce the Cubs and the Astros to take care of the Yankees and it will be a great post-season.

 

[metafour]

Wait, Edwin Encarnacion didn't win them the series against the grossly overrated Yankees?

 

[zeke]

Edwin's injury likely cost them the series, yes.

 

[metafour]

Yes, Edwin's injury...not the fact that VASTLY SUPERIOR players like Kluber and Ramirez didn't do anything.

Edwin failed, sorry bud. Also, if you want to get trivial, Judge was even worse than injured Edwin LOL.

 

[hockeywiz542]

So this is interesting:

Apparently, Shapiro has just fired our minor league managers, several scouts, and 23 front-office personnel.

Not sure what to make of that...

The Blue Jays fired a reported 23 employees Wednesday from various departments on the business side. The club insisted it was not a cost-cutting measure but more a shift of resources to address evolving needs. The streamlined front office is merging and re-organizing fan engagement and media relations.

Gone from the former media department are Mal Romanin, the manager of baseball information, Erik Grosman, the coordinator of baseball information, and communications coordinator Sue Mallabon. The only leftover is communications vice-president Jay Stenhouse.

The Jays expanded their existing fan engagement department last season, an area that includes business-led PR initiatives and Blue Jays social media. That department, led by Sebastian Gatica, has now merged with media in reporting to Gatica, who transferred from Sportsnet to the Jays in 2016 to coordinate personal affairs for president Mark Shapiro.

“In recent years, our business has become more focused on engaging fans through compelling experiences, unique content and personalized service,” Gatica said. “Today’s changes reflect that evolving nature of our business as we shift to meet these needs through a new structure and resources aimed at delivering memorable experiences to our passionate fan base.”

The new setup, with a one-person media department, is unique to Major League Baseball.

 

[The Nemesis]

So this is interesting:

Apparently, Shapiro has just fired our minor league managers, several scouts, and 23 front-office personnel.

Not sure what to make of that...

Some of the FO personnel are part of the communications dept. and also a couple of the medical/training staff. This would seem to be related to the comments Atkins made at the season-ending presser where he said there were 'communication breakdowns' that may have been behind things like the weird, wishy-washy treatment of return timetables for Sanchez and Travis or seeming disconnects when it came to handling, addressing, and reporting injuries. Some of the others it may have just been that they believe the media dept. was bloated beyond requirements. Given that some of those staffers had been there for 2 decades+, it's not hard to believe that multiple front-offices just sort of left the department to do whatever it wanted in terms of staffing because it was a low-priority issue compared to baseball ops.

The managers thing is more confusing, though they only fired 2 full-blown managers (from Vancouver and New Hampshire) and Lansing's pitching coach. We also don't know the whole story there. It's also not like the C's have had stable managerial presence in their history. They've had 4 managers in the 7 years they've been under the Jays and have only had a manager return for consecutive years at the helm twice, and that included a manager who had previously been relieved of his command.

2011: John Schneider started and was canned like 3/4 of the way through the season and replaced with Rich Miller. C's won a championship this year.
2012: Miller was out and replaced with Clayton McCullough. C's won back-to-back championships
2013: McCullough returns and the C's three-peat. he would be poached by the Dodgers at this point.
2014: Schneider is back in charge. The C's make their 4th straight NWL final, but lose this time.
2015: Schneider has his 2nd consecutive season and 3rd overall. He's currently the manager in Dunedin
2016: John Tamargo Jr takes charge for his first go-round with the org. This last season he appears to have been the DSL manager as well as an org-wide "upper level hitting instructor" in the system
2017: Miller is back for the first time since 2012. C's win the championship for the first time since 2014. Miller had been various sorts of roving instructor in the interim of his C's managerial stops.

I know I saw a piece where Miller admitted he was surprised by being let go, but the unfortunate thing in the minors is that as much as we love to see the teams win championships, it's not just about winning. It's about player development. Perhaps the signs they had gotten from Miller about how he manages and trains the players didn't align with what the org wanted to be focused on. Perhaps the Lansing pitching coach was teaching mechanics and actions that the org felt might not be great for long-term success? We just don't have the information to judge that.

 

[Lightsol]

Let me sum up all the post-game media talk:

hnnnngghhhhh Yankees intangibles.

Could be worse. Imagine what they'd be saying if Aaron Judge wasn't a complete tire fire so far this playoffs...

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Such a conflicting series for Jays fans. Most fans in their early thirties \ late twenties should hate the Yankees with a passion, and want them to fail. However, given the Indians eliminated the Jays last year, the hatred for them is also justified.

Then there's several more layers of conflict. One could be cheering for the Indians to lose because they don't like Shatkins, and the fact that he assembled ~65% of the 2017 Indians would ultimately lead to him getting some credit, which would be horrible. However, then there's this...

Wait, Edwin Encarnacion didn't win them the series against the grossly overrated Yankees?

...which adds a whole other layer to fold.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

In other nonsensical news, Steve Phillips was on tsn1050 this morning saying he would trade Stephen Strasburg in the offseason. He is 29, and has six years left on one of the most club friendly SP deals in the game.

#espninternsandMoVaughanandsuch

 

[zeke]

Yes, Edwin's injury...not the fact that VASTLY SUPERIOR players like Kluber and Ramirez didn't do anything.

Edwin failed, sorry bud. Also, if you want to get trivial, Judge was even worse than injured Edwin LOL.

you sound upset.

but i agree shappy's indians choked.

 

[Woodman19]

In other nonsensical news, Steve Phillips was on tsn1050 this morning saying he would trade Stephen Strasburg in the offseason. He is 29, and has six years left on one of the most club friendly SP deals in the game.

#espninternsandMoVaughanandsuch

Hard to believe he's a former GM..

 

[Woodman19]

I have a feeling that we are going to sign Darvish this offseason.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

you sound upset.

That's Metafour's secret Zeke....

 

[Anthrax442]

In other nonsensical news, Steve Phillips was on tsn1050 this morning saying he would trade Stephen Strasburg in the offseason. He is 29, and has six years left on one of the most club friendly SP deals in the game.

#espninternsandMoVaughanandsuch

As per any other trade talk - depends on the return.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

As per any other trade talk - depends on the return.

His premise behind wanting to trade him was "he's too soft, and I don't want soft guys on my team. I want me some Jeremy Bernitzzzz on my teamz."

You'd be hard pressed getting value back for Strasburg's age 29/30/31/32/33/34. But of course, always possible. Especially with Rizzo. Its less about trading him, and more about the motivation to do so.

 

[Discoverer]

you sound upset.

but i agree shappy's indians choked.

À la AA's Jays, right?

 

[Discoverer]

His premise behind wanting to trade him was "he's too soft, and I don't want soft guys on my team. I want me some Jeremy Bernitzzzz on my teamz."

You'd be hard pressed getting value back for Strasburg's age 29/30/31/32/33/34. But of course, always possible. Especially with Rizzo. Its less about trading him, and more about the motivation to do so.

It's usually pretty stupid when someone evaluates a player based on an inability to play because of injury/illness. It's a whole new level of stupid when that player ultimately decides he's able to play, proceeds to absolutely dominate the opponent, and someone sticks to the "too soft" argument because the player considered not playing. What a dumbass.

 

[Anthrax442]

It's usually pretty stupid when someone evaluates a player based on an inability to play because of injury/illness. It's a whole new level of stupid when that player ultimately decides he's able to play, proceeds to absolutely dominate the opponent, and someone sticks to the "too soft" argument because the player considered not playing. What a dumbass.

Many times you see someone play like a bag of garbage and then after the fact you find out they had a major injury. Like why didn't you let a fresh player play, instead of seeing someone struggle because they are too screwed up and probably on too much pain meds

 

[Discoverer]

Many times you see someone play like a bag of garbage and then after the fact you find out they had a major injury. Like why didn't you let a fresh player play, instead of seeing someone struggle because they are too screwed up and probably on too much pain meds

Yep. The mentality Phillips seems to be suggesting there (that injured/sick players just need to suck it up and tough it out) is probably detrimental to the team more often than it is helpful.

 

[Longshot]

Peter Gammons had a piece on Twitter saying it is an option for Farrell to return Toronto to work with Shapiro/Atkins. He wasn't saying he would or it was likely it was more like pointing out Farrell has worked with them in the past and has management/scouting/development experience in his background.

Would be fun to see the reaction if that scenario developed.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Peter Gammons had a piece on Twitter saying it is an option for Farrell to return Toronto to work with Shapiro/Atkins. He wasn't saying he would or it was likely it was more like pointing out Farrell has worked with them in the past and has management/scouting/development experience in his background.

Would be fun to see the reaction if that scenario developed.

Seemed like he couldn't wait to get out of TO

 

[Discoverer]

Seemed like he couldn't wait to get out of TO

I think it's more that he couldn't wait to get to Boston.

As much as I can't stand him, it's hard to ignore the Cleveland/Cherington connection. If it's some kind of player development role, I wouldn't really care because at least he would be in the background and we would never really have to hear from him. If it's as a coach working under Gibbons or something, I would hate having to see him, but it would be kind of hilarious.

It would be nice if he just stayed away forever, but if we've learned anything from management over the last couple years it's that they're more interested in making what they feel are the right moves rather than placating fans.

 

[theaub]

Regardless of whether its the right move, how can you justifiably hire a guy who ditched you at the first chance he could for his 'dream job?'

Unless he has to crawl through the Mr. Burns supplicant hole to get the plague and its broadcast on Sportsnet in which case all is forgiven.