Player Discussion Ridly Greig (LW) 28th Overall

[DackellDuck]

Centre is much more about size and speed than it is about playmaking nowadays imo. Centres skate more than anyone, they have the most defensive responsibilities, and then obviously faceoffs are crucial as they drive possession. That’s why Norris and Pinto (and Ostapchuk) are centres.

I don’t think Greig will play as a C on this team. The trick here is for Ottawa to find a playmaking winger in the top 6 - whether it’s Norris or Pinto there, it’s not their strong suit, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be in that position. Marner is more the playmaker than Matthews, Kucherov more than Point etc - obviously extreme examples here, but the lines just have to be constructed accordingly.

The problem Staios has is that he has 3 third line centers and he'll be paying them a combined 14.95M next year.

Norris has an elite skill - his shot. The problem is that he can't create opportunities for himself or for any of his teammates.

Your examples of Matthews and Point don't really apply. They're elite scorers who can create their own shot. Yes, they also benefit from playing from great players, but if you removed those linemates, they'd still find a way to score their fair share of goals and generate chances.

Norris can't do that. He's entirely dependant on someone else creating opportunities for him. If that doesn't happen, he's an offensive black hole at 5v5.

We have two options with him if he remains on the roster:

1. Keep him at C but accept that he's going to produce nothing for you at 5v5, so transition him into being an $8M checker who plays PP.
2. Try turning him into a trigger man on the wing who can ride shotgun with Stützle.

It's time to try #2. His advanced metrics at C this season are absolutely putrid, and they match the eye test.

Greig is better suited to be the #3 (and he'll be paid like it), and Pinto is better suited to be the #2. We need Norris to become a top line winger (i.e. 35-40 goals).

 

[Hale The Villain]

After this extension, and assuming a 92.5M cap ceiling, we will have almost 14M remaining next season to sign 8 players, including Giroux and Kleven.

If those two make around 7M combined (let's say Giroux @ 5M and Kleven bridged @ 2M), we'd have 7M left to add a backup goalie, two 4th liners, a 3rd pairing RD, plus presumably a couple scratches.

Not much room to add any player of significance. Basically would just be running it back with the same roster with a few tweaks at depth positions.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

The problem Staios has is that he has 3 third line centers and he'll be paying them a combined 14.95M next year.

Norris has an elite skill - his shot. The problem is that he can't create opportunities for himself or for any of his teammates.

Your examples of Matthews and Point don't really apply. They're elite scorers who can create their own shot. Yes, they also benefit from playing from great players, but if you removed those linemates, they'd still find a way to score their fair share of goals and generate chances.

Norris can't do that. He's entirely dependant on someone else creating opportunities for him. If that doesn't happen, he's an offensive black hole at 5v5.

We have two options with him if he remains on the roster:

1. Keep him at C but accept that he's going to produce nothing for you at 5v5. Transition him into being an $8M checker who plays PP.
2. Try turning him into a trigger man on the wing who can ride shotgun with Stützle.

It's time to try #2. His advanced metrics at C this season are absolutely putrid, and they match the eye test.

Greig is better suited to be the #3, and Pinto is better suited to be the #2. We need Norris to become a top line winger.

Ya Norris trending at like a 45 point pace is far more concerning than this contract. Goal totals high or not, he needs to bring more or he's going to be the obvious contract "problem" up front above anyone else other than maybe Perron due to unavailability.

 

[DackellDuck]

Ya Norris trending at like a 45 point pace is far more concerning than this contract. Goal totals high or not, he needs to bring more or he's going to be the obvious contract "problem" up front above anyone else other than maybe Perron due to unavailability.

9 of his 21pts are on the PP.

He's only scored 12 even-strength points this season. That ranks 124th amongst NHL centers.

He's tied with our old friend Mark Kastelic.

Him and Pinto have been atrocious offensively this season, but Norris' salary makes it much more concerning.

Pinto may well just be a 3rd liner and is paid accordingly (and will be on his next deal... probably shouldn't have turned down that 5x5 offer...) Norris is paid like a #1.

 

[GCK]

After this extension, and assuming a 92.5M cap ceiling, we will have almost 14M remaining next season to sign 8 players, including Giroux and Kleven.

If those two make around 7M combined (let's say Giroux @ 5M and Kleven bridged @ 2M), we'd have 7M left to add a backup goalie, two 4th liners, a 3rd pairing RD, plus presumably a couple scratches.

Not much room to add any player of significance. Basically would just be running it back with the same roster with a few tweaks at depth positions.

I think the cap is going to be quite a bit higher next year. At this point the 2026 Cap is looking at 108-112M. I don’t foresee a scenario where that isn’t softened to avoid a 16-20M jump in a single year.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

9 of his 21pts are on the PP.

He's only scored 12 even-strength points this season. That ranks 124th amongst NHL centers.

He's tied with our old friend Mark Kastelic.

Him and Pinto have been atrocious offensively this season, but Norris' salary makes it much more concerning.

Pinto may well just be a 3rd liner and is paid accordingly (and will be on his next deal... probably shouldn't have turned down that 5x5 offer...) Norris is paid like a #1.

Ya, not good enough. I think heading in, everyone said they'd be happy if he just was healthy, but obviously they need a lot more return on investment for it to work out. I'm cautiously optimistic he can still improve after missing a season and a half, but that feels misguided to some extent.

 

[PlayOn]

The problem Staios has is that he has 3 third line centers and he'll be paying them a combined 14.95M next year.

Norris has an elite skill - his shot. The problem is that he can't create opportunities for himself or for any of his teammates.

Your examples of Matthews and Point don't really apply. They're elite scorers who can create their own shot. Yes, they also benefit from playing from great players, but if you removed those linemates, they'd still find a way to score their fair share of goals and generate chances.

Norris can't do that. He's entirely dependant on someone else creating opportunities for him. If that doesn't happen, he's an offensive black hole at 5v5.

We have two options with him if he remains on the roster:

1. Keep him at C but accept that he's going to produce nothing for you at 5v5, so transition him into being an $8M checker who plays PP.
2. Try turning him into a trigger man on the wing who can ride shotgun with Stützle.

It's time to try #2. His advanced metrics at C this season are absolutely putrid, and they match the eye test.

Greig is better suited to be the #3 (and he'll be paid like it), and Pinto is better suited to be the #2. We need Norris to become a top line winger (i.e. 35-40 goals).

I’m fine with trying Norris on the wing. But Green had him there last night in the third period and today at practice he was back to 2C, centering Batherson and Giroux. They’ve been reluctant to move him for whatever reason.

Anyway, it’s all a guessing game as to whether he can find his game. He’s never exactly been a beast 5v5, but in the past he could produce adequately as a 2C with the right linemates, which was really the point. He’s got tougher deployment this season so whether it’s that or the injuries or the missed time, I don’t know, but for sure they need him doing more than he currently is to be successful.

 

[DackellDuck]

I’m fine with trying Norris on the wing. But Green had him there last night in the third period and today at practice he was back to 2C, centering Batherson and Giroux. They’ve been reluctant to move him for whatever reason.

Anyway, it’s all a guessing game as to whether he can find his game. He’s never exactly been a beast 5v5, but in the past he could produce adequately as a 2C with the right linemates, which was really the point. He’s got tougher deployment this season so whether it’s that or the injuries or the missed time, I don’t know, but for sure they need him doing more than he currently is to be successful.

It certainly seems unlikely to happen.

But personally, I don't understand how Travis Green stands behind the bench and watches Josh Norris play C, then Ridley Greig play RW, and says to himself – "yeah, this is what we should be doing."

I probably wouldn't call Norris' 5v5 production adequate... ever really. Even during the 35 goal season, he ranked 77th in ES points among centers. Considering who he played with and the ice time he got... not the best. But that year our PP strategy was "feed Norris for the one-timer" and he feasted on that, and we've pretty much moved away from that too.

 

[DrEasy]

He's still pretty young, and his brand of play requires him to get bigger. So I think there's definitely room for a better Ridly Greig for the remainder of his contract.

He's a guy that I wish spent more time in Belleville to work on his offensive game, but alas with our lack of depth this wasn't realistic.

 

[sena]

9 of his 21pts are on the PP.

He's only scored 12 even-strength points this season. That ranks 124th amongst NHL centers.

He's tied with our old friend Mark Kastelic.

Him and Pinto have been atrocious offensively this season, but Norris' salary makes it much more concerning.

Pinto may well just be a 3rd liner and is paid accordingly (and will be on his next deal... probably shouldn't have turned down that 5x5 offer...) Norris is paid like a #1.

he is overpaid but No1 centers will be making 10.5+ moving forward

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

he is overpaid but No1 centers will be making 10.5+ moving forward

Stutzle is the #1 center though, not Norris

 

[SENStastic]

I would've expected 2.5x2 before we committed to more term and money. We still don't know what he can offer, he's stagnated this year, and I'd like to have seen more from him before locking him up. Not a horrible contract, but not that great either.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

After this extension, and assuming a 92.5M cap ceiling, we will have almost 14M remaining next season to sign 8 players, including Giroux and Kleven.

If those two make around 7M combined (let's say Giroux @ 5M and Kleven bridged @ 2M), we'd have 7M left to add a backup goalie, two 4th liners, a 3rd pairing RD, plus presumably a couple scratches.

Not much room to add any player of significance. Basically would just be running it back with the same roster with a few tweaks at depth positions.

I would not bring Giroux back at 5.

 

[UglyPuckling]

Where is your spreadsheet for next season?

People don’t create spreadsheets for whatever reason. Maybe its because Excel is a tool more common to PCs/laptops (whatever) versus phones?

The back of the napkin efforts often forget to include a complete (22/23 player) roster and often omit retained & buy out salary.

Seems like a pretty comparable deal to Newhook, who got 4 years at 2.9, that was 3.47% of the cap when the deal started. 3.25 is expected to be 3.51% of next years cap (92.5)

Newhook had completed 2 full seasons when extended, 33 pts in 71 games, and 30 pts in 82, while Grieg is pacing at 27 in 82 this year, and 26 in 72 last year, so a bit less production,

Some were expecting a $2 m contract, so the problem might be that predictions were too optimistic (& unlikely).

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Allan Walsh claims that the salary cap is going up to 97 million next season.

If that is true, this contract looks a lot better than it did yesterday, unless you are extremely cold on Greig to the point that you would like the option to walk away completely after a bridge deal.

With a 97M cap, that 2.XX bridge deal likely inches closer to the high 2's or even 3M, and that's assuming he doesn't heat up or continue being used in an elevated role to close out the season.

I don't mean to suggest this is the steal of a lifetime, but to me it went from neutral value (we overpaid a little, but it's justified with the circumstances), to positive value (we got him for less than he would have cost if we waited).

 

[Wondercarrot]

His value will also be unlocked in greater measure when he’s moved to center permanently.
It’s great he has the versatility to play anywhere but IMO he is a much better centre than winger.

I would not bring Giroux back at 5.

Yeah, I really want Giroux back but on the 3rd line making about 3.5 million on a series of 1 year deals.

 

[Xspyrit]

Hmmm, I thought I liked Greig, but he really hasn't done much lately and I don't think there is much upside in his offensive game to be honest. if we start throwing around contracts we're going to end up with the Greening/Condra/Smith type guys all over again

These guys were on great contracts for the most part. All under Bryan Murray except the last Zack Smith contract

Condra 2 years x $625,000 + 2 years x $1,250,000

Greening 3 years x $816,667 + 3 years x $2,650,000

Smith 2 years x $700,000 + 4 years x $1,887,500 + 4 years x $3,250,000

Note that Zack Smith signed that 4 years x $1,887,500 (2.94%) right after a 14 goals 26 pts season. Very similar numbers to Greig last season, except that it was a lower scoring environment. Greig is at 3.69% but a 3.9 M$ QO damn

So basically he'll become a no value guy if he doesn't end up as an Elite 3rd line forward. That's why Calle Jarnkrok 4 x 2.1 AAV contract was fantastic.

He's on pace for just under 30 points. 30 points in a $90M cap is easily a $3M player. Throw in his PKing, two-way play and physicality and to me this is not a bad contract at all.

I think he's got upside to score more too.

Yes as a UFA, a player like this would be worth that no problem, but we're pretty much bringing him to UFA status. IMO we should have gave him a cheap bridge, like most teams do.

 

[Blotto71]

The best thing about this Greig extension is that Norris will be gone in the off season.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I would not bring Giroux back at 5.

That number is assuming Giroux turns it around and finishes with 50+ points.

 

[Xspyrit]

People were saying the same (negative) things about Mark Stone when he moved on from his ELC.

Another fantastic Murray extension, how did we get this guy at 3.5 x 3 years, he should have won the Calder with his 64 pts season

If Greig was scoring 50+ next year, then he’s getting more than 3.25.

Not sure why you're saying that, I mean that was my point.

Paying this amount for this term at this moment in his development shows that they think he might become a Top-6 forward, which makes me doubt their evaluations even more then. And I say this as one of the posters who pushed Greig the MOST.

I could be wrong but I don't see him becoming a Top-6 forward, his game is too detailed and is not focused on offense. I see him as a luxury all-situations 2-way 3rd line forward. In that case, you really didn't need to gamble on year #3 and #4

We need to beef up offense, we are 29th in 5 on 5 goals for this season, that's lottery level.

How they played the game.

Staios made the playoffs 3 times in 16 seasons, and the first time was during his rookie season after he played only 12 games.

So hopefully that's not too much what we're trying to build.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

That number is assuming Giroux turns it around and finishes with 50+ points.

Even still he has shown regression since mid last season. I don't think you'd want to tie 5 million to an aging vet given his level of play.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Greig is at 3.69% but a 3.9 M$ QO damn

Why do you think there is QO offer for a UFA.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Even still he has shown regression since mid last season. I don't think you'd want to tie 5 million to an aging vet given his level of play.

Sure, but Staios gave Perron 4M after putting up less even strength points than Joseph.

He clearly values vets highly and unless Giroux continues to suck for the rest of the year I think he'll get a similar contract to Perron but for more money.

 

[Xspyrit]

Why do you think there is QO offer for a UFA.

Frankly, I don't know what you're talking about sometimes. Communication not working

 

[HSF]

not a bad signing at all

I would say its a fair deal for both sides.