News Article: Rick Pracey Hired as Director of Amateur Scouting

[guymez]

Tried to look into Pracey's draft philosophy. Found this in an old 2011 Denver Post interview:

"Skill, instinct and competitiveness are the key traits we look for. We try to prioritize instinct and hockey sense as the key criteria."

Things cratered with Patrick Roy's arrival who was highly critical of the team's lack of size and organizational depth. Gospel According to Patrick Roy: Size Does Matter

Fascinating to see Jeff Jackson move this quickly and targeting amateur scouting as his first priority to change ... hopefully upgrade.

This really highlights why we have no way of knowing if this was a quality hire.
Drafting isnt a one man show and there are a lot of background factors that we are just not privy to.

We really need to see how this plays out.

I’ll take skill over size. Patrick Roy is a moron

Which is exactly why posters need to pump the brakes a little on their criticism of Praceys track record. Clearly Roy was more of an influencing factor in the decision making.

 

[Tarus]

I’ll take skill over size. Patrick Roy is a moron

Who would have thought that a guy who named his account after Yamamoto would choose skill over size

Roy isn't an idiot though, you do need size to be successful in the NHL, even now. Everyone always wants that big centerman and it does make a big difference when you have a guy in the lineup like that(as Oiler fans should be able to attest to these days). The "bigger teams have less injuries" thing is complete nonsense though.

 

[Spawn]

What does the director of scouting do? There seems to be a lot of comments that this guy, personally, has a shitty hit rate. Do we care about that if the director is a more administrative role? Does he hire and direct other scouts, or is the director of scouting actually spending all his time scouting players himself?

I feel like the job should be making sure the scouts are looking for the type of skills the GM is interested in. Communication/managerial role to make sure both sides are on the same page. If that's the case, why do we give a shit if this guy sucks at going to OHL games and finding good players himself? Wouldn't he just be there to use his connections to hire useful scouts that actually do the scouting?

I genuinely have no idea but it seems like missing the forest for the trees worrying that he doesn't find hidden gems all by himself, if he's not being brought in to be an on the road scout.

It’s not just an admin role. He’s going to be the guy who more often than not is making final decisions on who the Oilers draft. Scouts will give him their reports and advocate for players they like, but ultimately it’ll be up to this dude to pick who he thinks will be the best player.

 

[guymez]

It’s not just an admin role. He’s going to be the guy who more often than not is making final decisions on who the Oilers draft. Scouts will give him their reports and advocate for players they like, but ultimately it’ll be up to this dude to pick who he thinks will be the best player.

Ultimately its up to the GM.

 

[Spawn]

Which is exactly why posters need to pump the brakes a little on their criticism of Praceys track record. Clearly Roy was more of an influencing factor in the decision making.

There was only one year of overlap between Roy and Pracey in Colorado.

Ultimately its up to the GM.

For the first rounder maybe, but GMs aren’t choosing who gets drafted in later rounds.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

If this is true ...what does this say about his (Jeff's) thinking about the current GM?

Not sure, it's likely definitely not a positive in Jackson's eyes. Whether that is the only area that he has a beef with/feels that there needs to be upgrades in is TBD.

 

[North Cole]

It’s not just an admin role. He’s going to be the guy who more often than not is making final decisions on who the Oilers draft. Scouts will give him their reports and advocate for players they like, but ultimately it’ll be up to this dude to pick who he thinks will be the best player.

There's just a lot of opinions formed over the most opaque process in the entire sport. 10+ people get in a room every draft and come up with a board of players.

The guy making the final decision is the GM. All the scouts do is report to the director, who reports to to the GM. My point is that you obviously need to fix a lot more than Tyler Wright to correct our 30 years of abysmal drafting. Are the reports he got in COL, poor? Did he hire the wrong scouts? Was he bad at his job? Was Patrick Roy a disaster? Who knows.

Boy are you ever struggling.

Ironic non-answer.

 

[The Nuge]

I think Pracey got brought in because he does have some later round hits. Maybe I'm just overanalyzing


Then why would he fire Tyler Wright? He had him forever

He doesn’t actually. His latest pick to turn into an NHLer was barely out of the 2nd round. His best pick after the 3rd round is Will Butcher who played all of last year in the AHL.

Really, we should have just put Bob Green back in charge. Because if Lavoie or Blumel pan out, he will have hit on an NHLer outside the first round every single year he was in charge.

 

[joestevens29]

He doesn’t actually. His latest pick to turn into an NHLer was barely out of the 2nd round. His best pick after the 3rd round is Will Butcher who played all of last year in the AHL.

Really, we should have just put Bob Green back in charge. Because if Lavoie or Blumel pan out, he will have hit on an NHLer outside the first round every single year he was in charge.

The only thing I've really read and it's not even confirmed is the thought is Pracey thinks the same way Jackson does.

Move more about getting more liked minded individuals together.

I get wanting to do that, but I sure hope we don't swing too far to analytics and just become a spreadsheet team.

Be interesting to see where we go next. Part of me is scared, but part of me also knows that Philadelphia was a goddamn mess all over the place. Not sure what has worked there the past bunch of years.

 

[guymez]

There was only one year of overlap between Roy and Pracey in Colorado.


For the first rounder maybe, but GMs aren’t choosing who gets drafted in later rounds.

Doesnt matter that there was only a 1 year overlap...it speaks to my point that there is more going on behind the scenes than we know.

While it may be typical that the GM isnt involved in later round picks that may differ from team to team.
Also...the reality is that later round picks (especially after the 2nd round) have a very slim chance of even making it to the NHL...its a total crap shoot.
So judging a scouting director on later round picks doesnt make a lot of sense.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

You realize who we lost to in the playoffs right? And your aware of the of the 4 or 5 guys they have for forwards and a couple of guys on defense right? Big and they can skate.
You also seen how they used this advantage against the Panthers and dominated them...or maybe you didn't watch?
Not saying this is the way to go but certainly it is one philosophy?
You realize this guy your calling names started pulling his goalie quite a bit earlier in games....something that many(most) teams are now entertaining now adays...at least at times.
You should be careful making broad sweeping statements like this.
Everything is relative...Patrick Roy from one perspective might be seen as a genius and its you that is ....

Patrick…..Roy….season where he did really well…..was also….an extremely….lucky season…that inflated….

 

[Perfect_Drug]

The only thing I've really read and it's not even confirmed is the thought is Pracey thinks the same way Jackson does.

Move more about getting more liked minded individuals together.

I get wanting to do that, but I sure hope we don't swing too far to analytics and just become a spreadsheet team.

Be interesting to see where we go next. Part of me is scared, but part of me also knows that Philadelphia was a goddamn mess all over the place. Not sure what has worked there the past bunch of years.

How well does spreadsheet / analytics scouting fare?

Any notable teams using that methodology? and do they have any notable hits in later rounds?

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

There's just a lot of opinions formed over the most opaque process in the entire sport. 10+ people get in a room every draft and come up with a board of players.

The guy making the final decision is the GM. All the scouts do is report to the director, who reports to to the GM. My point is that you obviously need to fix a lot more than Tyler Wright to correct our 30 years of abysmal drafting. Are the reports he got in COL, poor? Did he hire the wrong scouts? Was he bad at his job? Was Patrick Roy a disaster? Who knows.


Ironic non-answer.

Fully agree. We don't have enough information. We can see the results of Colorado and Philadelphia but don't know the internal processes of how these organizations worked, hiring practices, decision making, coordination of area scouts and crossover (if any).

There is a leap of faith involved here in that Jeff Jackson is viewed as a new age President who espouses progressive views of hockey operations that includes prioritizing development, greater use of data/analytics to inform decision making, and hired in part because his external lens gave him access to the operating practices of all NHL franchises from which to discern leading practices. The fact he's acted quick to reshape the top position in amateur scouting tells us a lot. But we have very little information from which to fully understand the 'why' this guy (Pracey)?

One thing we know from Tyler Wright and all others in this position is that they follow the template of their leader in terms of how they want the team to play and the skills, attributes and character within the talent base to succeed. This is a clear shift away from Holland and toward the new direction of its new executive hire.

For anyone interested, a few links to discussions with a variety of Directors of Amateur Scouting which give some insight into job function (talent finding, coordination of area staff, hiring, and decision making.

An Inside Look At Kings Director of Amateur Scouting Mark Yannetti & the Scouting Process - LA Kings Insider.

Behind the scenes of the Winnipeg Jets amateur scouting department - True North Sports + Entertainment

Mike Doneghey, the man behind Blackhawks' draft picks

Castron handling 1st draft as Devils director of scouting

Have included a feature on Tampa Bay's amateur scouting team formally led by elite scout and Sasky Al Murray. Gives a nice breakdown about each scout and their background on what has been a very successful group. Notable are guys like Brad Whelen and Grant Armstrong who were GM's of stellar junior organizations, Calgary Hitmen and Brandon Wheat Kings, who worked with elite talent assessors Kelly Kisio and Kelly McCrimmon. I think having that junior management experience can be an asset.

What do we know about the Lightning amateur scouting staff?

Amateur scouting is a huge part of any NHL organization. They are the scouts that are out there looking for potential draft picks and evaluating players. Drafting in a salary cap world has become huge…

www.rawcharge.com

 

[Anarchism]

Not sure, it's likely definitely not a positive in Jackson's eyes. Whether that is the only area that he has a beef with/feels that there needs to be upgrades in is TBD.

Of course the only one's that SURE is Jackson.
Most likely this is a CEO establishing his position and making a statement.
Most new GMs will want to hire there own Head amateur scout. Pracey like does alot of the base work and is more like filler for the next GM take over.

Whether Jackson continues to establish a further power base is TBD. Of course we can all speculate on his agenda. Obviously Pracey is not much better than Wright. So the move is likely positioning himself. Of course thats most of what agents spend alot of time doing, If he makes another move soon ..ie removing Dustin or an assistant GM ...then it becomes easier to speculate about thing like removing Holland earlier or remaking the team philosophy.

 

[Anarchism]

Patrick…..Roy….season where he did really well…..was also….an extremely….lucky season…that inflated….

Love elipses. In the older days I used to have to write (by Hand) lots of letters. Using elipses made it quicker. Thought translates to paper without the formality.
Can I ask why it disturbs you? Can you not understand the writing?
Or is it the enjoyment of taking pot shots?
I will refrain from suggesting that you may be a ranking member of the hive mind present on this board--you know the kind that targets for ridicule anything that doesn't follow the norm here.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Thinking about this, it as to be a Holland hire.

No way Jackson tells Holland who to hire in his first two weeks on the job.

There must be more to this. Seen seen some speculation online about Wright 'off the ice'

If it's the same speculation I saw, it's that Wright is an egotistical asshole that's incredibly difficult to work with.

 

[Slats432]

Love elipses. In the older days I used to have to write (by Hand) lots of letters. Using elipses made it quicker. Thought translates to paper without the formality.
Can I ask why it disturbs you? Can you not understand the writing?
Or is it the enjoyment of taking pot shots?

Personally...I think it allows people to mentally pause for thought at the same time the writer does. Then again....maybe it's just me. And agree with you, ellipses help create imagination. I don't know why people try to come off holier than thou...it isn't very nice.

If it's the same speculation I saw, it's that Wright is an egotistical asshole that's incredibly difficult to work with.

Please provide some details.

 

[Stud Muffin]

Short Sample size but when i watched the drop i was less than impressed with the way he conducted the meetings and ran the draft table, specifically during the Nathan Day pick seemed like it was very without direction, it was kind of like we need a goalie, and the goalie scout told him which one he liked seemed like there was to actual list or even a thought about guys being picked out of order or to early

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Love elipses. In the older days I used to have to write (by Hand) lots of letters. Using elipses made it quicker. Thought translates to paper without the formality.
Can I ask why it disturbs you? Can you not understand the writing?
Or is it the enjoyment of taking pot shots?
I will refrain from suggesting that you may be a ranking member of the hive mind present on this board--you know the kind that targets for ridicule anything that doesn't follow the norm here.

Anyone….can use ellipses….

You….don’t like others doing it….didn’t address anything in my post….typical.

Patrick Roy stunk….he had one good season that was propped up by good puck luck….don’t play possum when people don’t agree.

 

[Broberg Speed]

All we need to improve our drafting is a monkey that can throw darts and an dartboard.

 

[aspin3]

All we need to improve our drafting is a monkey that can throw darts and an dartboard.

Oh this will be a great one to save again to show you in a year or two. Wanner at round 7, Petrov in round 6, Beryozkhin and Tullio in round 5.

 

[Anarchism]

Anyone….can use ellipses….

You….don’t like others doing it….didn’t address anything in my post….typical.

Patrick Roy stunk….he had one good season that was propped up by good puck luck….don’t play possum when people don’t agree.

Sure. LOL
Patrick spiraled. I did say from one perspective Ted.
Please continue with the ellipses ...get your flow on!

 

[Anarchism]

Oh this will be a great one to save again to show you in a year or two. Wanner at round 7, Petrov in round 6, Beryozkhin and Tullio in round 5.

Wouldn't it be amazing if two of those turn into full time NHLers
Lets play guess...Petrov impact, Wanner 3rd pair spare, Tullo up and down tweener.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Oh this will be a great one to save again to show you in a year or two. Wanner at round 7, Petrov in round 6, Beryozkhin and Tullio in round 5.

Zero games played in the NHL so far and you shouldn't expect any.

Don't buy into the bullshit. It's all fake.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Sure. LOL
Patrick spiraled. I did say from one perspective Ted.
Please continue with the ellipses ...get your flow on!

…..what’s your point in this thread….