Value of: Rick Nash and a minor prospect/pick
- Thread starter NateB19
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smoneil
Registered User
With you? Possibly not. With the boards in general? Most definitely. You bring up some good points. But then again, there were red flags before the trade TO the Rangers as well (four straight seasons of declining points and goal totals, no real playoff history to speak of, reputation as a coach-killer and a locker-room cancer, etc). I pointed those things out then (remember, I wanted nothing to do with Nash on the Rangers). All people would talk about was the fact that he was a "40 goal scorer!"--even though his 40 goal seasons were four and eight seasons in the past.
What's happened in the last four years? Yes, he's been injured more. But his goal-scoring has moved in the right direction generally (rather than ~30 goals per 75 to 82 games, he's put up a 40 goal season, a near 40-goal pace season during the shortened lockout year, and 26 goals in 65 games). So of the four years with the Rangers, his production, aside from this past season, has met or exceeded what he had done in his last 3 years with the Blue Jackets.
His playoff production has, to be polite, left a lot to be desired, but that too is on the right sort of trend. His first two post-season runs with the Rangers, he only had 4 goals and 15 points in 37 games. The last two years? 7 goals and 18 points in 24 games. He's improved in the postseason each of the last four years.
So yeah, he's a little older, but with far less term. He had a down year due to injury, but only after three years in a row of improved production compared to his last three years in Columbus (including a career year just one season ago). He's had struggles in the playoffs, but he's on an upward trajectory and is now a known quantity in the post-season.
These boards went from 95% Nash apologists to 95% Nash detractors. It started before this off-season, too. There were people saying these things after Nash's career year. It's the jersey. You could put prime Gretzky in a Rangers sweater and there would be people on these boards calling him a middle sixer.
Regardless, for the reasons I mentioned above (and it pains me to say this, as someone who didn't want Nash in the first place), it makes no sense to trade him unless the return is worth it. There is no cap reason to move him as the Rangers are fine with the cap. None of the wingers that clog the roster right now have proven that they can bring what Nash brings. He plays great defense even when he isn't scoring. To me, there is a far better chance of getting Nash the 35-40 goal scorer back this season than there is of getting anything of real value in trade right now. I'd wait until the trade deadline and re-assess. That's when his value will be highest. Let him rebound and regain some of his value while the younger wingers get some seasoning in the AHL. If Nash doesn't rebound, expose him in the expansion draft. I'd be surprised if Vegas didn't take a gamble on him rebounding with only one year left on his contract.
Rick Nash shot ~8.2% last year - the lowest of his career. You may say that's a new trend; I say it's a statistically outlier. If he is healthy this season, he is scoring 25g+ and playing high quality defense
He doesn't have negative value, he will be tradable for a RHD of quality or not at all imo
He doesn't have negative value, he will be tradable for a RHD of quality or not at all imo
The thing is, his assists should have helped balance things out due to the fact he still had an OISH% at 10%. In 2014-15 he had a 10.4, in 2013-14 his numbers were slightly depressed. 2014-16 is actually the highest his OISH% he's had in his career.
Boom Boom Apathy
I am the Professor. Deal with it!
- Sep 6, 2006
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I think fans just like the persecution complex for some reason. I've seen Leafs fans complain about "Now that Matthews is a Leaf, posters say he's not as good". Oilers fans "Now that Hall is traded, he's great but when he was on the Oilers, fans said he sucked". etc...etc.. (paraphrasing). Are there a subset of fans, particularly from rivals, that say things like that just because a player changes teams? Sure there are, but IMO, it's a small subset. Like I said in my previous post, Nash is viewed as having less value specifically because of the reasons I stated. Over 30, expensive, injured more often and coming off his worst NHL season. HF fans are fickle and put way too much weight in the most recent season. As a Canes fan, we've seen that with Skinner time and time again. After every good season, there are fewer offers for him and they are much better offers. Have a bad season and he's treated like a cap dump. Just the way it goes.
As I said in my previous post, I personally think Nash has something left in the tank. Watching him at the end of last season, he still looks like he skates well and if he's healthy, I think he'll rebound. I agree with you in that if I was NYR, I'd hold onto him and hope for a rebound rather than trade him for pennies on the $.
hockey17jp
Lets Go Jackets!
We want the player we traded you.
Such an awful trade by Gorton. Eric Staal probably made our team worse.
But he was an 88 overall in NHL 2008!!! How can he not be good?
Shootertooter
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- Feb 20, 2016
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The Rangers believing Gropp is a Nash type of player is inaccurate? I don't understand the smarmy face palm.
Shootertooter
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If you are insinuating that poster is me, that would be incorrect. My post got the face palm.
Rick Nash will bounce back this year and score 30 barring a serious injury. Book it.
I have no desire to trade him. He was one of the best players on the ice the entire series against the cup champs
I have no desire to trade him. He was one of the best players on the ice the entire series against the cup champs
Vastly.
Rick Nash is an Olympic gold medalist and one of the better producing forwards in this generation.
Ryan Gropp is nobody.
smoneil
Registered User
Regarding the bolded, that may well be it. Many teams get that from A rival. The Rangers have several bitter rivals (NJ, Pitt, NYI, Philly and a couple of lesser rivalries). If you look in any Rangers related thread, you are sure to find fans of those teams stirring it up (particularly NJ and NYI). That, combined with the "Nash doesn't like Canada" thing is probably where a lot of this is coming from.
One Winged Angel
You Can't Escape
The best part about the "Nash has negative value" camp is that they ignore every stat that doesn't support their argument, go only on last season's performance and then when you use logic and bring an example of their team's best player having a crap season and point out that you can say the same about that player, they cry foul.
People need to stop thinking they know what general managers think. They clearly don't.
People need to stop thinking they know what general managers think. They clearly don't.
vipernsx
Flatus Expeller
- Sep 4, 2005
- 6,791
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I have two questions for you:
What are the names of players who have scored equal to or more goals then Nash over the past 2 season.
Tell me how many forwards are as solid in all 3 zones and score as many goals he did during that time?
JuniorNelson
Registered User
Canucks are in bad enough shape to try "negative value" guys. They need size and scoring. I am guessing they would accept the contract. I have no idea of what return they'd scrape up. It wouldn't be much. Burrows? Hansen? Miller, maybe.
Shootertooter
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you might have a tough time convincing some people on this forum of Nash' value.
Right now Gropp is nobody......and the Rangers think Gropp could be the type of player Nash is. What part of Gropp is a similar type of player to Nash, means that right now they are identical and equally accomplished? Maybe they believe they can groom him into a Nash like player. He is a big guy with similar style. Do you really lack the comprehension to be able to discern the projection of a prospect from that of an established player??
If you do a search, I'm positive you will see comparisons of Gropp to Nash before the Rangers drafted him and after.
Wayne Gretzky was nobody once. a skinny kid.....who woulda thunk?
Last edited:
One Winged Angel
You Can't Escape
Shootertooter
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prior to the draft
http://www.mynhldraft.com/2015/NHL-Draft-Profiles/Ryan-Gropp
after the draft, the Ranger site quoted the first link.
http://bluelinestation.com/2015/06/27/new-york-rangers-select-ryan-gropp/
And at least one person here made the same comparison.
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1917701
Boom Boom Apathy
I am the Professor. Deal with it!
- Sep 6, 2006
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I think you are misunderstanding what I was saying, or more likely, I wasn't clear enough in stating it. I for one do NOT think Nash has low or negative value and I stated that I think, if healthy, he'll rebound and have a strong season. Watching him at the end of last season, he still looked like he was skating well and was dangerous.
The only thing I was saying was that the reason "on HF", he has less perceived value in the eyes of some is because of his age, salary, injuries in recent years and that 2 of his last 3 seasons have been a couple of the worst (offensively) of his career. I fully recognize that injuries have played a part in that. Posters on HF seem to weigh the most recent season more than anything when applying value (I've seen in for years with Skinner). GM's don't look at it that way.
Those are pre-draft comparisons. They're meaningless.
Connor McDavid's was Wayne Gretzky. Wayne Gretzky.
Rick Nash is a borderline generational talent, on the tail-end of his career obviously. Gropp is a fart in a windstorm.
Shootertooter
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I didn't make the comparison up. Apparently other people compare Gropps game to Nash. Nobody is saying he will actually turn into Nash. But you are taking that rather literally. The fact that you can't seem to comprehend that some might see similarities between the to is simply on you.
Don't they call McDavid the second coming or something like McJesus? If Edmonton gets to the playoffs it will be a miracle.
Nope. I was only responding to 'NYR sees Gropp as a Nash-type' which is worthy of a facepalm or a headshake. And I don't recall mentioning anything about Edmonton in this thread.
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